Mr Snackette

Agreed100%. As I understand it the plan is to use 2011 GSAs for team building purposes, with RAs being used during the 2012 season. However I feel that each promoter will rock up at the AGM with their own agenda, and no doubt that there will be some "full and frank exchange of views", before the format is agreed. I have based my calculations on 2011 GSAs, but as Dave mentioned, who know whether this will change or not.

I believe it's planned for the 17th to 20th November. Then once everyone has had the opportunity to huff and puff, threaten legal action, go off and sulk, we should know the outcome sometime mid 2012!!!

Not quite as according to my figures it would leave 6.92 to sign a number three, which would of course rule out Masters. So in the words of Michael Winner: "Calm down dear!!!!"

I think we perhaps need to calm down a little. The above is based on the current GSA not the end of season figures. I would remind all contributors of Rule 17.4.1: "At the end of each Season the BSPA will produce a Listing of all Riders who have competed in British Speedway during that season and following approval and/or amendment at the BSPA AGM’s these CMA’s (i.e. excluding Bonus Points but including other allowances) will be the Riders CMA for the start of the following Season." Whilst under the current rules and regulations Heeps and Tungate would come in 3.00 and 5.00 respectively, and there is nothing to suggest that this position will change at the AGM, but it COULD. In addition I think that young Morris' end of season CMA is 7.17. So perhaps take a deep breath until such time as the AGM is over.

On a personal level, I much prefer a team, rather than an individual meeting. However to suggest that the sport is first and foremost a team sport is an over simplification. I would suggest that if you asked the average speedway fan who were the first three speedway world champions, there would be a good number who could rattle off the names of Lionel Van Praag, Jack Milne, and Bluey Wilkinson. Ask the same fans who won the League in 1936, 1937, 1938....and I would suggest that there would be very few who could come up with the answer (well I certainly couldn't!!!). In fact I could tell you who won the league in 1975, 1976, 1984, and 1998......Dag Lovaas (RR) won it in 1977....and Smederna won the Swedish League in 1973. Apart from that I would be struggling, and without looking it up, I couldn't tell you. Yet for the same years I could name you the individual world champions without any difficulty, and I would suggest there would be many who could also do the same. So clearly the Individual World Champion has far greater prestige than any league title winner. However it could also be fair to say that for the average speedway rider, the World Championships are for show, league speedway is for dough!!! So it may be that it is the financial model that needs to change more than anything else. The financial rewards for competing in the world championships should be such that no rider could afford to give it a miss.

After some discussion on the Witches Fans Forum, it appears almost certain now that Barker's withdrawal was made on the day of the meeting. No one knows when, but we do know the line up on the website was amended, mid afternoon, to reflect the change. It would have been great had a paragraph been added to the website preview to highlight the change, but at least some effort was made. What is surprising is that no one on any of the Forums picked up on this change. No mention on here or on the Fans Forum, and the first mention on "Live Updates" was at 19:44. Giving the timing of Barker's withdrawal it was without doubt too late to be included in Mike Bacon's piece in the EADT. However apart from his journalist expertise, Mike is a prolific tweeter. Despite a number of tweets during the day, his first tweet about Barker's absence was just as the meeting was about to start. Again it would have been nice had the Press Officer told Mike, who could have then updated his followers. On the evening of the meeting I was listening to BBC Radio Suffolk. I think virtually everyone would agree that the station is a good friend to Ipswich Speedway. It was the case on Thursday, when the 16 Lapper was giving great prominence on the 17:30 sports news. It was followed by a recorded interview with CL, and then 5 minutes later Pete Simmons was live on air with Foz. Graeme Mac's piece on the news bulletin stated "......several Witches are in the field, with last year's winner, Ben Barker, defending his title.......". Remember this was on the bulletin that was broadcast live just after 5:30pm. Again it appears to be a pity that the Press Officer failed to contact the local radio station, to prevent them from providing mis leading information. With Pete Simmons live in the studio it was a pity that he didn't take the opportunity to correct the information given. However it may be that despite being in the studio, he didn't hear the bulletin, so was not in a position to correct it. On balance I don't believe that this was a malicious attempt at surpressing information, but perhaps illustrates areas in which communication could be improved. As with most organisations they are only as good as their weakest link!!!

I don't know about attedents (sic), but if you mean attendants then I heard that Wee Jock Poo Pong McPlop, the lavatory attendant at Glasgow Central Station was planing a visit. Mind you given that's there is no Woofy or Barker he might have given it a miss!!!!!

How can any signings be confirmed before the AGM. Given the events of last year, I would suggest anything might be possible. A ban on Australians......Czech riders with short surnames only accepted on a 12 point CMA.......English riders can only ride for an English promotion.....Anyone called Mike Bowden can't sign anyone!!!!

Or better still lock both threads until after the AGM.

It will be interesting to see if he demonstrates his commitment to The Devils by trundling up to Cumbria for the double header at Workington (assuming its on!!!) this evening. I must confess I was non too impressed by his commitment at Berwick earlier in the season, when he withdrew from the meeting because of injury, only to be seen a short while later larking about at a local fairground. It has been suggested on the Witches Fans Forum, that Barker's non appearance was known about a few days ago. If this is correct, it was a pity that the information was not passed on to the media. Certainly Mike Bacon's preview in the EADT on the morning of the meeting gave no suggestion that Barker might be a no show, and I didn't see any update on the website. I do hope that this isn't the case, as up to now I can only applaud the promotion's transparency and clarity in dealing with the fans. It will be extremely disappointing if at the end of what has been a fantastic season, that they revert to the behaviours all too evident back in "The Dark Days".

It appears that nostalgia ain't what it used to be!!!!!

So Göteborg is a non speedway city? I appreciate that Kaparna haven't run since 2008, but does this really make it a non speedway city? I would certainly argue that it is far more stepped in speedway tradition than Auckland, Terenzano, or indeed Cardiff Apart from the one off world finals that have been held in the city, league speedway operated in the city for over 50 years. I can't remember too many league teams operating out of Cardiff!! So a rather strange post.......but it is a Muppet post......so no change there then!!!!!

Thanks for link. I've just wasted the last hour watching that and some of the related videos!!! I'm going have to give myself a written warning!!! One thing that was noticeable, was that even though the meeting was very nearly 30 years ago, the stadium looked to be much better appointed than it is today. The old ITFC stand on the back straight, certainly gave the impression of a compact and tidy arena. It definately came across much better than the more recent Sky NsEL meetings, where the stadium appeared to resemble some form of wasteland after an emergency evacuation had taken place!!!!

Agree that the 16 Lapper is a unique meeting, and certainly a meeting that should / must be preserved. But traditionally the end of season finale at Ipswich.....no. In recent years it has ended the season, but the meeting was traditionally / originally staged mid season. I just think that the meeting is best suited to a warm sultry evening in July / August, rather than a usually chilly evening in October. Of course in the past we have seen the likes of Penhall, Nielsen, Carter, Billy et all battling it out for the title ( and if memory serves me correctly also for a brand new engine ), but these REAL superstars are no longer available, and in my opinion the current crop of GP tarts are not in the same league as these heroes of the past. So no problem with the quality of field, just the quantity. If we are talking tradition, the meeting was always run with a 16 rider field. This made the qualifying heats far more competitive, and also provided a decent Consolation Final. However I'm pragmatic enough to accept that the financial realities of life in 2011 dictates that the meeting runs in the format it is now.

I must admit I am in some agreement with aljack on this one. Not that I think that the 16 Lapper is stale, but I don't think the timing is right. I'm in essence a traditionalist, and I always associate the 16 Lapper with a lovely warm sunny evening in June / July. Also when the meeting was first run it was with a full 16 rider field, which no only added more to the qualifying competition, but also provided a better consolation race. Now I'm prepared to accept that nostalgia ain't what it used to be, and no doubt there are probably some very good business reasons why we have the meeting in the format it is now. However I would personally like to see the 16 Lapper run mid season with a 16 rider field, and then the Star of Anglia as the farewell meeting.

As long as Doolan is the top rider in the averages, and providing that there are no changes to Rule 18.1a, I'm afraid the position is de rigueur.

Normally.I would advise go to the meeting and stay somewhere else, as the town is ordinary to say the least. For June 2012 be very, very careful indeed if going to Gorzow, as you would be going bang in the middle of Euro Finals. Gorzow is home to the infamous Stilon Fighters, one of the most notorious hooligan gangs in Poland. The football authorities know that the Stilon Fighters along with other Polish gangs have targeted English, Dutch and German fans as their main priority. Unfortunately these gangs are none too bright, and I would be concerned at their ability to differentiate between football or speedway fans. My good friend James Easter has just returned from a highly successful tour based in Berlin. That would be my choice, stay in Berlin, travel to Gorzow on the day of the meeting, spend as little time there as possible and return immediately afterwards. Sorry if I sound a little alarmist, but I do feel that there will be a hooligan problem whilst the football is on, and it may be worth giving the whole place a wide berth until the competition is over.

So by my calculations that's 04:00 hours BST. Interestingly (well I think so!!!) if the meeting was run a week earlier it would have been a 03:00 GMT, and a week later a 05:00 BST start. As usual this exciting news is treated by those with a typical Little Englander mentality as a major problem rather than a major opportunity. When will those realise that the moribund NsEL is nothing more than a small irritation rather than a key player on the international scene.

Deadbeet fans may be interested in this: http://www.lovespeedway24.co.uk:80/teams/kings-lynn-stars/king_s_lynn_scrap_pride_of_the_east_1_1080479 So if you want to see a top quality individual meeting (following the success of The Star of Anglia, earlier in the season) get yourselves down to Foxhall on Thursday 27th October for the 16 Lapper. Failing that I look forward to Suffolk / Norfolk hostilities being reconvened on Good Friday 2012.

And if you read my post more carefully you would see that I quite deliberately used the word NOW. Please do try and keep up!!!!

May I respectfully suggest that if you mean football leagues in this country then you say so. It's probably the reason why some of your rambling posts have been misinterpreted in the past. It is always easy to make disparaging remarks towards sport in the USA, where of course if you knew anything about MLS, the Tie (or draw) is now quite acceptable. No doubt using your reasoned cognitive analysis, Australian sport is also unworthy of any serious consideration, as after all they all descended from convicts!!!! "everyone walk the dinosaur"!!!!!

Oh dear we really do make some rather silly statements, don't we!! Off the top of my head I can name two leagues the MLS and the A-League which both use a play off system to decide their league champions. No doubt those with a better knowledge of the round ball game than I, could come up with many others. Looks like dinosaurs do need to do a little research before they start to join in a serious debate!!!!!

Outdated thinking.......yes definitely!!! Big crowds for the semis, and I would suggest big crowds for the finals......can speedway really afford to give up these pay days?...... Of course not. Rugby Union, Rugby League, ice Hockey, Basketball, are just some of the sports in the UK that have recognised the financial benefits of deciding their champions via a play-off system. Of course, the FA Premiership doesn't. Although the Football League does run a play off system to decide promotion. When speedway attracts gates of 30,000 for derby matches, then the sport can afford to be magnanimous and scrap the play-offs. Until then the income generated is vital.. Cue Was Not Was........Everybody walk the dinosaur!!!!!!

Great idea! Let's do away with meetings that are likely to attract a half decent crowd. Let's face it speedway is so flush with funds, that it can easily afford to sacrifice the additional income on the altar of outdated thinking and antipathy!!!

Not I sir. As someone whose parents were not related, and I only have the four fingers and a thumb on each hand, I do not qualify to be a fully fledged Fen Tigers fan. In a similar fashion as I have not had a lobotomy, or indeed like Tom Jones, Loomer Road is unlikely to be a regular stamping ground. Pip pip!!!!!!!