kennylane

I am fairly certain that in his book 'Thrilling the Million' that Tom Stenner credits Johnny Hoskins with the start of speedway at West Maitland in December 1923. It's hard for me to be certain now because it was many, many moons ago that I read the book which was published around 1934. One thing that still stands out in my mind from the book is an amazing crash photo taken at High Beech and featuring, so I recall, Ron Johnson and Bobby Blake. Be that as it may, we still need to trace one of Johnny's early books to see if he has anything to say on this ongoing and engrossing topic.

Not strictly correct. That should read 'Tommy Knudsen - the man who won the first race at Wembley Stadium in September 1981.' The FIRST EVER race was won at the opening meeting at Wembley in 1928. Bill Crampton at Maitland in December 1923 looks to have won the FIRST EVER SPEEDWAY RACE both at the Australian track and in the history of speedway. Nice to be back on track with most of the 'Johnnie Hoskins On Maitland 1923' brought over.

How nice to read Johnnie Hoskins memories of Maitland in December 1923. And we have the confidence of knowing that he was also actually there. It's what they term a primary source of reference on a subject.

It's a shame you have taken that attitude but it's a free world. It means you will now probably never see this item on Brian Darby's excellent Australian speedway site. For those interested - oh, dear another website link - all will be revealed at: http://speedwayarchives.homestead.com/ SCROLL DOWN TO SEE THIS PHOTO AND CAPTION: Bill Crampton - the man who won the first ever Speedway race at West Maitland Showgrounds in December 1923.

Just a few hours to countdown and all will be revealed.

Yowieee!! A double-whammy. If Johnnie Hoskins is looking down he must be enjoying all this? Support for the Maitland speedway started theory: the recently provided South African site, the NZ Grand Prix programme, and a while back Peter Oakes in 'Speedway Star" are a good enough basis surely?

Nor did they give New Zealand's seven times national champion and wildcard entry Jason Bunyan special recognition?

You're a bit off course. Edinburgh in the early 1960s when Peter Craven tragically died and Maitland in 1923 are a long way apart. I don't quite see what this has to do with the debate on the start of speedway in Australia in December 1923. A rather unusual parallel but I am sure BFD will give his response.

What website are we talking about? You already have two other threads going? Is this a third?

The very latest on an an intriguing matter. And it's all back to square one in Johnnie Hoskins favour by the look of it.

Regarding Rye House and Lakeside I think they like their London area links. Lakeside were involved in reviving the LONDON RIDERS CHAMPIONSHIP a few years ago, and there was also around that time of them competing for a revived LONDON CUP (which never came about). Did the London Speedways site call for a London Junior League to be formed? If they did, that is crazy. I have just been on London Speedways and the site does not make any comment about the team locations. That remark as I see it was made by a site member?

The London Speedways discussion site has set up a thread for the Anglia Junior League but it will probably only carry details of Lakeside Hammers and Rye House as they are the only London teams involve in the competition. Take a look here for some details. http://londonspeedwa...o33&thread=1410

This link keeps getting posted on here by various people. Is it co-ordinated or just that previous Posts are not read? I think this one for The Spokesman has been posted three times?

From the Guiness Book of Records 1986: SPEEDWAY ORIGINS: Motorcycle racing on large dirt track surfaces has been traced back to 1902 in the United States. The first organised ‘short track’ races were at the West Maitland (New South Wales Australia) Agricultural Show in November 1923. The sport evolved in Great Britain with small diameter track racing at Droylsden, Greater Manchester on 25 June 1927 and a cinder track event at High Beech, Essex on 19 Feb 1928.

Are you saying that if there was a primary source error in the Maitland papers in December 1923 and their version of events was wrong, there is still a possibility that speedway's origins can be attributed to Johnnie Hoskins after all?

Hold on! I didn't claim that Johnnie Hoskins staged a world championship in the 1920s. That was mentioned by the respected Peter Oakes in his article in last week's 'Speedway Star.' Don't shoot the messenger!

That comment you refer to is what our Australian friend BFD so rightly calls a Red Herring by that lot.

Here’s the actual transcript of the item about Johnnie Hoskins in ‘Speedway Star’ Narch 17 2012 edition. JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt track meeting in the world. Certainly he was secretary of the Local Hunter River Agricultural and Horticultural Society when he decided to put on some motorcycle races as part of the annual show. It was hardly a headline act and for the 1923 event on December 15, the poster bills had motor-cycling racing in the smallest print of all, overshadowed by the star act, Tom Handley's Famous Buck-jumping Show. But the bikes caught the imagination of the locals and the shrewd and extrovert Hoskins, born in New Zealand in 1892, quickly latched on to the idea that it could be his key to the fortune jar. He started running meetings every week, and before long was looking to widen his horizons beyond the small New South Wales community of West Maitland. He, his wife Audrey and their son Ian, sold their few belongings, left their rented house and journeyed down to Newcastle where he audaciously ran his own World Championship. He lost his shirt in Sydney, travelled over to Perth, where his share of the first gate at Claremont was the princely sum of £750 (£35,000 in today's world). Johnnie was never short of coming forward and was a one man publicity machine and it was swiftly accepted that he had invented speedway racing. He was much in demand and set sail from Australia bound for the UK knowing he was wanted to take over the management of ten tracks.

Hi BFD: So you think Norbold doesn't read links when they come up on here? I also especially thought the one about Maitland 1923 and Brisbane 1927 was fairly specific. And personally I also found the previous FIM post quite interesting in regard to the start of speedway.

A strong case on your part Norbold but equally so the FIM post must also have credence. The FIM is the official voice of affiliated motorcycle sport and must surely have checked their view on the start of speedway at Maitland. And the message 14 re Maitland 1923 and Brisbane i 1927 also gives Australian support to speedway/s birth at Maitland on December 15 1923. I take it you did click in to read them?

How do you regard this comment from How do you regard this comment from the FIM? http://www.fim-live....f-track-racing/ "The first vehicles created at the end of the 19th century were immediately put to run on roads or – if they existed – tracks. The first motorcycles were not very fast, but within a few years started to reach very high speeds. The idea of using an oval track or an athletic track around a football ground or even a horse track, came very early. Mentions made in California in 1902, in South Africa in 1907 or around a football ground in Ipswich (GBR) in 1904 are just a few of them. "But the first event, with a real structure, is generally considered to be the one held in Australia in 1923. Australians took everything off the motorcycle which was not essential, in order to reduce weight, and put the bikes for racing on oval grounds. The first real record of a dirt track meeting was on Saturday 15 December 1923 in West Maitland. The event was organised by John Hoskins, who is generally considered as the “father” of speedway competition. "Success came very fast, and within a couple of years other tracks were built in various cities all over Australia. News was sent from Australia to Great Britain and the idea came up to hold such an event there. It was first scheduled in November 1927 but permission was refused by the authorities. The event was finally staged on Sunday 19 February 1928 in High Beech."

Not according to your latest finding on the oldtimespeedway yahoo site as follows: --- In oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com, "jack.keen@..." <jack.keen@...> wrote: Source: THE TELEGRAPH, March 8, 2012;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;RE - JACK ORMSTON - :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: NO mention of Coney Island, USA, but there is of Madison Square Gardens, New York ::::::::::::: "In the winter of 1932-33 he led a British team to Australia, winning the individual unofficial world series in Sydney. As he paraded the trophy around the track he was roundly booed, a reflection not only of the traditional Aussie reaction to being beaten by a Pom, but also of the anti-English feeling whipped up that winter by the "bodyline" cricket series. With the Australian rider Frank Arthur, Ormston then formed a company, with the support of the manager and promoter Johnnie Hoskins, to take a group of riders to New York with a view to operating speedway at Madison Square Garden. "Despite the harassments of Tammany Hall and the Mafia (everyone wanted a share of the action) they succeeded in getting an option for "the Garden" and prospects looked good. Then Ormston received a telegram telling him that his father was seriously ill; he immediately left for England, arriving home in time to see his father, who died that same evening. Without Ormston's leadership and money, the New York venture collapsed." JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT This writing by Ian Hoskins looks pretty definitive to me and as he obviously knew Johnnie Hoskins far better than anyone else his opinions deserve respect and to be accepted. I think the last paragraph is of great importance and summarises adequately how he feels about those who seek to belittle his father's pioneering efforts to create and then further establish speedway racing.

I apologise for confusion but when I said "More credence here to the claims made by the pro-Hoskins Brigade IMO" I was referring to BigFatDave and Jack Keen not Ian Hoskins, the latter having stated his case rather well.

More credence here to the claims made by the pro-Hoskins Brigade IMO.

I've just seen a weather forecast for Sunday and it gives a maximum high of six degrees centigrade. That's 42.8 fahrenheit.