B.V 72

Thanks you find out something new everyday i thought that the riders own club paid the riders points money for both home and away meetings and if what you say is true useing Swindon as an example was wrong and i apologise. I would think that for a good few clubs that a higher points limit being able to afford it would be a big issue. If you read back at my posts on this thread you will find that i am very much against a higher points limit, 2007 being a major point in me thinking this way.

You are missing my point i am not calling Pooles promotors i think they are doing a brilliant job What i am calling is their and your mind set re having a higher points limit.In my mind and i would think in the mind of the other promotors(or the higher points limit would have all ready happened)its a no go. My point is if you raise the points limit you will need a good few better quality riders to come and ride over here and how the hell are you going to do that.If you have not noticed the better class riders no longer want to ride over here.It looks like Woffinden and Kildemand wont be back next year we have already lost long term Elite riders like Holder.Kasprzak Ericsen etc With the points limit as it is now a few teams are going to find it hard to find a true no 1.You call the other promoters useless at their jobs in part i call them realists. On the other hand if by some kind of miracle you could tempt at least another 20 or so top class riders back over here of which you will need to up the limit.Do you think that all the other promoters would think.Yeah i can promote my club better than i do now Yeah lets go for this i will put it all on the line,i will gamble that all these highly paid riders i have now got on my wage bill will bring loads more supporters through the gates and get me loads more sponsors.Because if they dont all i will loose is a shed load of money and my club will close its doors. Sorry to say as much as i would like a stronger Elite league i cannot see it happening.Sadly i think we all have to accept that British speedway is not the force it once was.Riders can earn much more money in the G Ps,Poland and Sweden and with most of our promoters not owning their own stadiums the choice of running on 1 night a week(like the top boys want) looks very bleak.Let alone the rental problems with the said stadiums just running 7 or so home meetings a year.

Not to mention Harris and Smolinski. I think i am right saying you are a Swindon fan.If my memory serves me well in 2013 your team had money problems not being able to pay your riders to cause your riders to sort of work to rule(1 bike etc) this being blamed for the loss against Belle vue.Was it a sponsor that pulled you out of the mire and paid the debts to save the day.So according to you your club is badly run ?. This debate is about Poole wanting a lot higher points limit and wether the other clubs could afford to pay a team of top class riders of which you need to reach a higher limit.So looking at your 2013 season do you think that Swindon could pay this kind of money out and keep running.Or would you say they my end up joining the so called badly run teams in having to drop a league or 2 to keep running.

You need to get the selfish Poole mentality out of your head and smell the roses.Poole might have the money to pay the top riders but most of the other teams do not. How much evidence do you need. Birmingham pay top money to put out a team that finished top of the league the fans still did not turn out and they went bust. Eastbourne always put out a team that wins at home and more often than not finished in the top end of the table to keep the fans happy but did they turn out in numbers no they did not.Now they have lost that much money they cant afford to compete in the Premier league let alone the Elite league. Peterborough always tried to put out a strong team every year and had one of the best asset lists in the Elite league did this make the fans turn out in numbers no it did not. The promoter lost that much money he ended up throwing the towel in and walking away. Coventry can not afford the best riders they once could now that sugar daddy Sandu has gone but because of the lower limits, draft system etc can still manage to put out a competative team.Because under this system all teams have finances to compete with all the other teams in the league. Your way and Pooles way seems to be sod the rest lets have a high points limit we can afford the top riders we will be ok and we will walk the league.All the other teams will break the bank trying to compete and how many of them will end up the same way as 3 of the teams mentioned above. Then who are Poole going to race against. The above motorsport teams you mention above riders,drivers just ride for the same make of bike or car you cannot call them team sports where all the riders,drivers scores add together to decide who has won the meeting.One person wins the race.

Post deleted used wrong stats. Hope the rumours are wrong Phil. Zagar 8.29 Nicholls 7.56 Cook 6.21 Michelsen 6.02 Worrall 5.53 A far better team in my opinion.But who knows we will just have to wait and see.

Have Poole not weakened with the lower points limits over the years. Yet you say Poole still get good crowds so weaker teams do still work in Poole.The only difference is that Poole can pay the most money to have the pick of the riders that fit the new points limit.While im posting can you tell me what other motorsport is a team sport ?.Plus the poor teams with poor promoters that have gone must be Birmingham who finished top of the league in 2013 with a team that broke the bank and the fans did not turn out in there numbers which forced them to field a weaker team this year which led to them going bust and Eastbourne who are the only elite team that did not lose a home match this year yet the fans still stayed away.

O K lets up the limit to 50.Poole walk the league as they can afford the wages of the best riders willing to ride over here,creating the most boring season of all time All the rest try to compete and go way over budget and half if not more of them go bust and have to drop to one of the lower leagues or just close their doors.(and dont tell me that wont happen sadly just look at Birmingham,Peterborough and Eastbourne.)So what points limit do you think the remaining 3 or4 clubs will go for in 2016. Its just the way it is you have to have a points limit that every club in the Elite league has a chance to compete with in hope that you get a competative league.As with everything in life you have to cut your cloth.

Nobody is saying that Cook will end up being better than Doyle.He may he may not no one knows. The point is that Doyle developed in his own time he took 8 years riding in the British leagues before he became an Elite league heat leader and in this time fans were not on his back saying in my opinion all he will be is just a good Premier league number 1, he will never be more than an Elite league 2nd/3rd heatleader,nowhere near a G P rider etc.If it was not for the visa problems Doyle would have rode in the Premier league this year nobody said he has no ambition. People say that Cook is happy to be a big fish in a small pond and has no ambition as he is not riding in Europe.He might be trying his heart out to get a team place and cant.None of us really know the facts so how can anyone say he does not ?.Any rider would stay and earn in the Premier league if they cant get a team place elsewhere. Cookies main problem is that he is English and every one wants him to be or thinks he should be a world beater overnight.So treat him like Doyle and all other none English riders let him develop into whatever he may be in his own time and get off his back.

The world and his dog seem to have an opinion on Cookie.So i will share mine I WILL BE GUTTED IF HE IS NOT BACK AT BELLE VUE NEXT YEAR.He had a tougth year in the Elite league this year and got a bit of stick by some.But he is still learning and it was his first full season as a heat leader and at the same time they changed the heat format giving heat leaders far tougther rides than previous seasons.Its all part of the learning curve and i think he will realy kick on next year i hope it is for us. PS Just as a point of intrest for those who compair Cook to Doyle. In 2008 Doyle had an average of 9.77 riding for Somerset in the Premier league and from the only records i can find was riding in the Prem league from at least 2005. From the records i can find Cook first rode 20 meetings in the Prem league for Workington in 2009 with an average of 3.14. So my point being Cook started late is still learning(fast) and has a good few years yet to catch up to have the same experience as Doyle.

A far better worded post covering the same subject as your first post.If Watty reads this post he may well agree with you where as your first post may have hurt a little.

Like i said fair comment its the has been comment i thought was a bit harsh.

Youch harsh comment for a rider who has been so loyal to Poole in the past.Fair post if the last 3 words had been left out.

Alot of this season has been about bringing on British talent and then we go and lose one of the better ones sad news.

I loved it when the colts had a season at Belle vue.Watching the like of Jason Garrity and Kyle Howarth progress over a season is realy great to watch.Can't wait for the new stadium to be built as i believe the colts will be revived then,i hope so and i hope you enjoy it as much as me.

Cheesed off with him missing so many home meetings.Just to put the record straight he missed just one against Lakeside

I can think of a few other ways to look at this. First of all they are being given a chance to improve by having lots more meetings ie the more track time the better you get the more money you earn. or Its like an apprentice saying i want the same money as a time served worker as i spend the same time at work as he does.They all had to start on lower money.(ie all riders started out scoreing low points (low points money) against far better riders than the FTRs have to race against or They are on £50 a point more and riding in 30 ish more meetings than they were last year to help with costs. or The other option is to opt out like i have heard C Wright does and ride guest only and get a part time job taking only meetings he can get time off work for,if it does not pay to do speedway alone.

I can see where you are coming from but i think now the better riders have been sorted out riding against heatleaders should happen next year and not this.I agree Newman,Kerr,Blackbird.Garrity and Worrall after the first few months may have been up to the task but the other teams top FTR ie Morris, Nielsen.Bates,Ellis and Starke were not and in my opinion are still not (making it very unfair for these riders and the clubs that that they rode for)thats why i feel they have to add the likes of Auty Birks and Roynon to make up the top 8 FTR for next year.so that every club has a desent top FTR for next year ready to take on harder rides,and in my mind the rest still need protecting from heatleaders.

Agree with most of your post GRW other than allowing FTR to race against heat leaders i think they got i right the way it was.I think they had to let them walk before they could run,This year was all about finding which riders could handle the Elite league.In my mind they found at this point only 5 that could,these 5 might have had some chance against heatleaders but most of the rest would have got battered doing their confidence no good at all and poor races for us to watch. As posted before i think that next season the better riders in the no 6 position as part of the learning process should now go up against heatleaders and see if harder races can bring them on even more next year.But i still think that the no 7 berth should still be protected from heatleaders as i feel they are not ready yet hopefully another season and some of them will be.

(Quote from Belle vue web sight)Approx 350 meters long,the straights will be wide with plenty of room to pass and the turns will be big sweeping bends with the maximum banking allowed by the FIM for an international circuit.

Wow 10 years a rider and not a lot and then only 6 draft rider meetings and he comes on leaps and bounds just think what he could have done if he had done a full season lol

If he stays he will have one in 2016.

As stated in my earlier post i think we should keep 2 draft riders and keep them at reserve as other countries do.As stated again in my earlier post as part of the learning process give the no 6s tougther rides.I dont think they should be rushed,let then develop in their own time without the preasure of riding in the teams 1 to 5 positions,they can have this preasure with their Premier league team. As you state yourself we dont want any foreign rider dropping to reserve gaining the experience that our own riders should be getting,As there is no way you could stop this happening as having another Brit in the team does not mean he will be the rider to drop into the reserve position.If a foreign rider is not good enougth for a top 5 position he should be replaced and sent home to his own countrys league where he should learn his trade there and not be allowed to drop down to reserve and learn here at the cost of our own riders development. Now if a draft rider starts to beat 2nd strings for fun home and away then the draft will have done its job and he can then move up to the teams top 5 next season Wright had lots and lots of guest bookings as a draft rider so i would say yes the draft has helped in his development this year

Maybe being the magic word Phil.

The fast track system was designed to bring on british riders which in my mind it has.This year it has sorted out the riders that can handle the elite league from those that cannot.So why not carry on and in hope some riders will improve more.Other countrys keep there own grown riders at reserve for a few years giving then time to improve so why dont we. For me there are 5 riders that have stood out Blackbird.Kerr,Garrity.Newman and Worrall if they give say Auty.Birks and Roynon their chance that gives you 8 fairly matched riders to ride in the no 6 position whatever club gets whatever rider i think that they are all a good match for each other.But this year dont protect them 1 reserve race and let them progress in tougther races. Then for the no 7 place there are say 10 riders to chose from that have shown this year that they can handle this position Wright,Ellis,Nielsen,Starke,Morris Jacobs Rose,Perry,Sargent and Greenwood if a format can be devised to keep them away from heat leaders then let them battle it out with the no 6s and the 2nd strings. So in my thinking this year has sorted out the riders that are either not ready yet or not good enougth the above riders can all hold their own in their no 6 or no 7 position so no team will have a rider that is out of his depth like this year So lets keep it going and give them all the chance that the draft system was supposed to give them if they dont it will all have been a waste of time.Which ever way they go i hope that they keep the reserve positions for British riders only.