TheCookster

News to me if he is! He is English as far as I am aware.

Blimey! This thread has taken on a very different educational track! Humphrey is absolutely right in what he says here though. Without the Irish element the British flag should, strictly speaking, revert to the Great Union Flag that was developed after King James I (James VI of Scotland) came to the throne. It is a commonly held, but incorrect, belief for people to think that Northern Ireland is part of Great Britain.

Let's start a Team BSF campaign to have it abolished!

Good post. Some very pertinent points here Bruiser.

Apologies for wrongly picking up on that implication then TMW. My objection to the current promotion is not based on prejudicial bias, but rather on a long list of failings that I have experienced over many years as a paying customer and supporter, Before I was ever born, my parents used to go to the old stadium in Hanley. I first went to watch Stoke speedway (or strictly speaking Chesterton as it was then) in 1973, as an 8 year old. As Vog, Oldsparky and others may well be able to testify, I rarely missed a home fixture (usually in attendance with my son) and I was one of (if not the) most frequent traveller to away meetings ... even to the point, on occasion, of being the only Stoke supporter in the stadium (with the exception of the riders and manager, obviously!). I have witnessed all of the shortcomings, constant and repeated let downs, excuses and false dawns during my time on the terraces at Loomer Road. As I have stated on a separate thread already, my personal saturation point came when Dave Tattum announced that he had developed a "5-year plan" that would see him take the team out of the Premier League and into the National League for that period. Even at that point, I might have still been prepared to go along, if it had been handled properly and with empathy, as the Dugards managed to do at Eastbourne. However, as usual, this being the Tattum promotion, it wasn't. I stated publicly then on the Stoke forum that I would return to watch Stoke at the end of the "5-year plan" when Stoke were once again in the Premier League. I suspect that will not happen, but if it does, I will be true to my word. So, TWW, sad though it is, there is nothing that I say on here about Stoke speedway under the Tattum promotion that is based on unsubstantiated, prejudicial bias, but only things based on a series of fact-based shortcomings that I and others have been witness to over the years. Speedway deserves better - and, in particular, Stoke speedway and its supporters deserve better.

The only "vested interest" I have in seeing him walk away is an improvement in the way that Stoke speedway is run and presented. If I were ever to be involved in a consortium running Stoke speedway, I would be quite happy for it to be run along the lines of a non-profit making co-operative, so it is not something borne out of potential personal financial gain, as I suspect you were implying. Dave Tattum has known for some years that there are people potentially interested in buying out the promotion and he had a far more saleable product 5-6 years ago than he has now,

Far from it. If that were to happen I would be one of the ones prepared to put his money where his mouth is and to look to form a consortium to run the speedway at Stoke.

They may indeed. Any new promoter would be judged on their merits - and I don't just mean by me, but by everybody. Many hundreds of supporters have stopped going through the turnstiles at Stoke over the years as they have each reached their individual saturation point with the failings of the Tattum promotion. I doubt that any of them stopped going due to one single thing, but rather as a culmination of many. A new promotion would not find it easy to turn back the tide of many years of neglect by the present incumbent, but with hard work and a better attitude, may well find that people may be prepared to sample their wares.

That is the whole point, my friend. I would love Dave Tattum to walk away from Stoke speedway and let somebody else run it. I don't think the Specsavers metaphor really worked, but I think I understand what you meant. I am not under any illusion about how difficult it is to run businesses profitably, whether it be speedway or otherwise. I actually think Dave Tattum was the short-sighted one (the Specsavers metaphor would be appropriate there) when he took the team from PL into NL rather than addressing the real issues that were adversely affecting the marketability of Stoke speedway. Those shortcomings have been discussed at some length on various threads on this forum and on the old Stoke forum, so I don't really want to have to list them all again now.

Well, whether or not it has a significant adverse effect on attendances is open to conjecture, but I can imagine it would create potentially significant revenue stream issues.

I wouldn't even pretend to know the ins and outs of the IOW situation, but simply because a consortium failed there, doesn't mean that consortiums fail everywhere. Stoke speedway is NOT run by a consortium, but it has failed. Equally that doesn't mean that all tracks that aren't run by a consortium will fail.

I think that is more a case of what Dave Tattum would like people to believe! For a good number of years there have been those within the ranks of Stoke speedway supporters who have expressed genuine interest in being prepared to take over. Dave Tattum isn't still there, because he is on some kind of crusade to keep speedway alive in the community. Dave Tattum is still there, because he wants to make money out of it in any which way that he can.

Sadly, it would make no difference if dave Tattum were to read this or not - he has a history of paying little / no heed to the opinions of his paying customers and Stoke supporters. The air fence may have been deflated, but as ever, Mr Tattum is still full of hot air. He should have the good grace to move on and let somebody else tale over the promotion rights at Stoke. At a sensible and realistic price there would be interested parties ... quite possibly from a consortium of supporters, who would be prepared to put their money where their mouths are rather being the whingers that Mr Tattum like to try to dismiss them as being.

Absolutely! As I said in my original post on this topic (#3) the proposal by Matt Ford strikes me as being very messy and potentially riddled with inconsistencies. Over the course of a full season averages give a reasonably accurate picture of the riders' performances relative to the other riders they competed in the same league with. To start trying to deliberately tinker with those averages strikes me as inviting more problems than you would ever solve, some of which have already been highlighted by posters on here. Presumably, the promoters who voted this down would have done so, because they were also aware of the problems it would create, so in this instance I think they made the right decision.

Sorry, I don't get that at all. Surely all it shows is that the second string with the higher average than the other team's heat leader is simply riding for a team that has a stronger, more successful top end.

Oh yes, there certainly are!

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Systems work best when they follow the KISS format (Keep It Simple Stupid) so that it can be clearly understood. One of the other issues with Matt Ford's proposal, aside from those already mentioned, is that it would further complicate the conversions between EL & PL averages for those riders looking to double up / down or move between leagues. Not as I can ever recall - and I have watched speedway for quite a long time!

Not something I would get particularly excited about, but I think the decision that was reached was neater and more consistent than the proposal made by Matt Ford, which strikes me as quite messy. EL second strings' averages ranged from 7.00 to 4.54, I think, so you would be giving a 20% reduction in some instances to riders who had a higher average than some heat leaders ... very odd! You would potentially also get second strings with lower averages than the EL draft riders at reserve ... also very odd! I think the overall EL structure has got itself into a mess with various bits of tinkering and I think it really needs a proper overhaul. I would like to see it adopt something like the Swedish model, but no doubt the promoters would scream that they can't afford that.

I'm not sure whether you mean that question seriously, or whether you are just stirring the pot. But either way it would appear to be a valid question, especially after he represented the British team in the non-officially sanctioned pairs event recently. Unless I have missed something (always possible), there doesn't appear to be anything in the rules that would preclude Rory Schlein from being entered as part of the GB team for this event. The relevant regulations, as far as I can see being the following: 078.1.3 National teams National teams (e.g. Danish team, British team) are nominated exclusively by their respective FMN. Riders of a national team must be holders of a passport of the country, which they represent. I understand from a separate thread that Rory holds both British and Australian passports, so if this is true then he would meet this criterion. 078.3.1 Licences Only riders with a current and valid FIM Track Racing World Championship licence will be allowed to take part in the SWC Championship meetings. As far as I am aware, Rory would be able to meet this requirement too. 078.3.3 Entries The riders from each team must be of the same nationality as the FMN that has nominated them. If Rory holds both UK and Australian passports, then he clearly enjoys joint nationality, so he would indeed be of the same nationality if nominated by the British FMN. Given that Rory has previously represented Australia in the Speedway World Cup and would be thought of by most as being an Australian, people may not think that he should be able to represent Great Britain, but it would appear that there is nothing in the regulations to say that he couldn't. (Providing he does have a British passport - and I am only taking somebody else's word for that.)

Jeez, Jenga! You almost gave me a heart attack then! I misread your suggestion of Tatum (as in Kelvin) as being Tattum (as in Dave)! And the last person you would want promoting your local speedway club is Tattum! - Ask almost anyone who is unfortunate enough to have Stoke as their local track!

I feel for him too - but the problem with allowing 'common sense to prevail' is that it would mean making exceptions to the rule and, therefore, inconsistent decisions. And if you have inconsistent decision making then, whether it be speedway or other walks of life, the authorities get dragged over the coals.

Unless they decide to try the one, combined league format again, as they did in 1996!

I suspect you're right!

A modest man, with much to be modest about.

I don't think there would be any shortage of teams who would happily take him off Peterborough's hands!