iris123

Would be interesting........Looking around it seems one of the sources(maybe he only one)was Graham Warren,who supposedly blamed Aub Lawson("He would run over his own mother"),who offered Biggs a price and was turnd down..... Would also be interesting to know just who was involved in this/these alleged incidents.Unfortunately i don't have the Olle Nygren interview inClassic Speedway mag which this quote refers to He also talks openly about race-fixing and `doing favours' in World Championship meetings. He pursued one rider who owed him £50 all the way to Australia! "There was a system in Sweden of `covering' races and I understood how it worked," says Olle, who revealed that he was in the pits at one World Final when a fellow countryman was offered a £1,000 bribe to throw a key race.

Well here is something off the top of my head,and tell me if it is impossible by all means.If the other two see the chance to make some money out of playing king maker they could do it without Waterman in on the deal anyway.The thing is,if there was then a deal,what has Waterman to gain by not being in it?He could go all out for the heat win,but it wouldn't do him any good as the other two would let Biggs go.So that means Split would have to take Biggs out and he would obviously be out of the deal and the other two would be wary and maybe take him out instead.I don't know all the gate positions,but you have said Biggs was outside so pretty vulnerable.As Ronnie Moore mentioned it wasn't unknown for riders to be fenced at the time.Waterman is then in the position of being in on the deal,getting his heat win and also some extra money.If he isn't in on the deal he could end up on 9 points with nowt.Now Biggs doesn't accept the deal and he knows it is rubbish or bust.He has to make a brilliant gate from the outside and leave the other three for dead.Doesn't matter how good he has been riding in the previous 4 heats,this is the big one and he has to be perfect or he will be fenced........now i reckon there have been less feasable things happen on this earth every day of the week. But that is just my opinion.I remain open minded about this incident and all others i have heard,including the story of a World Champion who tampered with his bike and won that i heard from a rider/official

Yes Norbold,that was the story i was refering to.This wouldn't be the only one,but one of the ones i have read about.Seem to also recall reading about Van Praag or was it Wilkinson that supposedly used an oversized engine. One of the things that i found thought provoking as well was the Briggo interview with Ronnie Moore.Ronnie describes the top riders of the early 50s as a "Clan" a "Closed shop" and i think "almost like a union.....you were either in or out".Saying he was pysically threatened and mentioned Jack Parker who talked to his brother Norman while Ronnie was next to him saying "Tell your boy to slow down or i will kill him".Now Briggo i think on more than one occasion asked about if money was involved,but Ronnie doesn't really answer precisely.Part of the trouble with the interview seems to be Ronnies hearing and mis-understanding questions,but i do wonder why if nothing untoward happened back then,why Briggo mentions the topic....Would like to see what Briggo himself has to say about such things.If he can categorically say that nothing untoward happened

Great result for Rasmus,but what happened to Nicolai?

Yes.I just don't think we should laugh the idea off like Parsloes does, without hearing from the riders themselves.And even though i was a Wimbledon fan Ashby was one of my favourite opposition riders.And that was even more reinforced when he helped the Dons out so often after the tragic death of Tommy jansson.Class act he was.Very under rated

You and i never did back then,but i am asking if we know for definite one way or the other if riders did,sidney.Reasonable question i think.With the internet we are all that little bit wiser.In all honesty,i never gave the track much thought either.I never knew a track could be slick or grippy back then.It was dry or soaking wet and they put sawdust down.I could see the difference there.But all the subleties in between were lost on me i admit

Oh i could quite imagine it Norbold.The GPs are full of old guys.Having read some of Parsloes posts it is quite obvious that the modern day World Title is contested by rider much much older than in previous decades.In fact i am led to believe by Parsloes that the old one day World Finals were contested by teenagers and riders in their twenties mainly with a few guys around the early 30s.I think at about 33 or 34 in those days you were given a bobble hat and put out to pasture

No.Like i mentioned on Facebook a few days back,we were having forest fires in Germany about 10 days ago!!!!!And the ski resorts are looking very green in comparison to last year.But we had the first bit of snow here today.Rain,Snow,Sleet and more Rain.Bit tricky outside at the moment on the motorway.But doubt it will be much.We are not having the minus 15 temps that they are getting in Russia.And there is a series of Speedway on Ice meetings scheduled in the East of Germany,one of which at least will hopefully be on a frozen lake.Not looking good at the moment

Must say i don't know enough about the draw for the Final,but it does seem possible that riders were looking at getting a good draw for good gates and or the gap in between heats to give them time to adjust things.Mauger was very particular in every small detail including from one story in Poland i think,his position in the pits.So i could imagine he would be clued up on this to get some little advantage.The thing though is that you would need to have the best gates when you meet your main rivals.I don't know enough to know if Mauger for instance could know that if he finished second or third in the Intercontinental or European Final he would meet Olsen or Michanek when he had the better gate.But if that is possible to work out then i would be fairly sure riders would try it.I would say it is obvious gate positions are an advantage.....just look at the GP semi + final draws.Riders don't just pick random gates.So Orion + Impartial One might have a valid point.We would need the word of one or two riders to prove one way or the other on this though

I don't think anyone has disputed that there was something special due to pressure etc of the old World Final.If you look back i think you will find many posters admitting that.But,most agree that the Gps are an improvement for the sport and an improvement in finding a worthy World Champ I think you will find that a decent enough summary of mst of the posters on here

Hmmm,so you are saying the old style World Final wasn't so special after all as there were "World Final-style meetings" that were held?.What you mean i guess but are afraid to say because it highhs the problem with the old system is there were meetings that had a stronger line-up more often than not to the Old World Finals.Trouble is,it is hard to use them as any argument apart for against the old system,because they were not World Finals,not on World Final tracks and without that pressure that comes with the old World Final(which we all agree was special) Actually it was s often said about certain meetings that the line-up was stronger than the World Final,that that should be proof of the big failure of the system.I don't often hear that said about the GPs and many open meetings.Do you Parsloes?

No,no and thrice no Nicki is a very bad example to use for an argument on that particular topic.Multiple World Champ and had a few injuries,but although past his best maybe,he should deffo still be in for the time being

I would disagree Sidney.Imo(and it is only my opinion of course)Phil would be alongside the likes of Holta,Protasiewiscz and Bjarne.In and out like a fiddlers elbow

If i was you mate i would in future refer to Mr Kosov + Mr Nesytyh by the first name of Vasili/Vasily,rather than Basil Somehow Basil just doesn't go!!!

A Final from Kamensk and a pretty good one it was

Which sort of proves my point with Phil.A few national titles,but nothing more.Not even an Australasian one

Like i say.I never thought of Crump as one of the elite top riders.Just one of those very good other guys like Simmo for instance.Maybe just my opinion,but i was never a great fan of his....team man ok but never thought of him as a World Champ in the making Although thinking about it that one season when Street developed the 4 stroke and he and Phil had a head start he was amazing for a few months until others caught up.I remember seeing him at Newport.......but that was atechnical advantage....and others did catch up and left him back where he started

Please be my guest and name the titles he won.And i am talking about on the World Championship trail,not individual open meetings at Swindon or somewhere.We are discussing the World Championship here.Leigh won GPs on the quest to win a World title.How many titles did Phil win and how many World Finals did he qualify for?I consider Leigh to have regularly been in the World top 5,can't say i can say the same about Phil over a similar period of time

Even though i saw Crump help Australia win the World Team Cup at White City,i don't really see him as a World Title contender(not on any sort of consistent basis at least).Apart from that team championship how many titles did he win?I mean things like the Australasian Title or Commonwealth etc?Leigh proved he had the bottle to win GPs,but i think lost his nerve if he got into contention.Whereas Crump never won even a decent title from memory and didn't qualify for that many Finals either.To me ,hard to compare the two

Of course i will disagree.If a rider was ever theoretically suited to a GP season it was Leigh Adams.Mister consistent throughout the year.Over so many seasons he was bound to win one at least.The only reason he didn't must surely be down to nerves when it came to the crunch.And in a GP season it does come to the crunch,just as it does in the old World Final .

I give as evidence.....Leigh Adams

That would probably be the same as Laguta representing Latvia in the SGP.He wasn't Latvian,just had a Latvian licence.Guess Pijper rides with a French flag on his jacket if any.Similar i think Sirg Schützbach rode in the Longtrack as a Swiss rider,but is German

Agree with you 100%.Times have moved on and like i say,imo the GPs are an improvement on the old system.Although i do think that back in the 70s and 80s there was more strength in depth which makes it harder for new riders to break into the GPs.Think Michanek in one of the Backtrack mags mentioned just how many more riders there were in Sweden back in his day than there are now.Same must go for Britain and a lot of countries. So many riders are riding in so many leagues they must be taking the places that would have gone to home grown riders in other decades. And i have to say Humphrey that good meetings in Germany and also Denmark are few and far between,apart from the Güstrow track which does serve up regular quality racing

1973 was the one i was thinking of.Might have been to the '67 one...But i would say the Sping Classic,Will's Internationale,Div 2 Riders Championship and NZ v Australia along with The Laurels(possibly) that year would be better gates.maybe a Wimbledon v Hackney or some other team meeting as top 5

Disappointed.....YGT in Vetlanda + Wawrow for the Euro 80cc,so no big 80cc meeting for me next year At least what should be a decent enough i guess line-up at Stralsund .Not a track the Finns have had much success at though