iris123

I and others have absolutely defended the GP system.The best rider in the world wins every year unless injury plays a part.And you can't stop that in any system can you?I want a system where the best rider becomes speedway world champion.This one fits the bill.I repeat for the umpteenth time as have others that neither this nor any other system is completely perfect.You have in your own words already condemed the previous system from the 30s through to the 90s.I can't really see what your beef is and why you keep going on and on.I point out yet again that i didn't start this nor any other thread in defence of any system.But i have the right to point out facts,even if you don't like them and even if they make your words about a "proper" world championship look rather silly I doubt there has ever been a single year when the championship was open to all riders.At the moment there is an Australian championship going on whith a number of riders i have hardly heard of.All are in what is in effect a qualifier for the GPs.But i think what you really are talking about when you say everyone is any British rider right down to the NL.Because i doubt you have the knowledge to know if all continental European riders had the chance to qualify every year.In the 30s did all riders have the chance?Did East German riders always get the chance?And i have already made you look rather silly in stating that Australasian riders based at home didn't get the chance and neither did American nor South American riders.I guess the same would go for African based riders too....

I have answered all of sidneys point one by one in the other thread.We are in the years gone by section as you point out.And Australasian qualifiers started mid 70s.So for all those years up to the mid 70s you then agree it wasn't a in your words "proper" world championship.What about pre war Parsloes?What do you think of the case in 1936 for instance when the man who got a 15 point maximun at Wembley only managed to finish with a bronze medal?I guess we must write off the pre war world championships because of the strange case of points other than those scored on the night also counted?Rather like a GP system wouldn't you say? As i have already pointed out,i am not the one posting all this stuff to make a point + i wasn't the one bringing in "current" riders like Michael Lee + Jack Young into a discussion about GPs

I only ever talk about the old system,because it is brought into the discussion by a number of forumites who try to belittle the GPs.I am not the one who keeps mentioning Michael Lee or even for godsake Jack Young!!!!!You will notice i think if you pay attention here Parsloes that i am not the one who started a thread listing all these riders from days of oldwhen knights were bold But now we are here just answer the questions put to you.....Parsloes:Do you agree that because riders like Ivan Mauger,Langfield,Airey couldn't enter the qualifiers when not riding in Britain that the old system was not a(your words) "proper world championship".Or put it another way.....would you say that as they knew the consquences,that by not riding in Britain they had made the choice not to ride in the world championships?Riders from America not being allowed to ride in the world championships meant it couldn't in your opinion be worthy of the title world championship? Sidney please tell me which years and who was not a worthy world champion if you think your listed riders would have won another 20 world titles between them?I'll let you off a little bit as i guess you might have worked out by doing the maths that it is impossible for them to have hit that number......but make it 15 titles and years please?

You were the one who was saying the GPs aren't in your words "proper world championships" because not everyone gets a chance to qualify,presumably like in the old days.I am showing you that even in the old days not everyone had a chance to qualify.Any Aussie or New Zealanderhad to ride in the British leagues to get a chance.Surely you must see that your opinions are very faulty if a rider like Ivan Mauger was excluded from the world championships if he didn't have a British team.What sort of championship is that?What sort of world championship is it that the world champion is threatened into signing a contract with a British team or he wouldn't be allowed to defend his title.And here is another for you to answer in defence of your "proper" world championship.What about the Americans?They were excluded from the qualifying process from mid 50s through to mid 70s weren't they?Didn't Rick Woods go back to the States in '73 once he learnt that he wouldn't be allowed to qualify?It took Scott Autrey a couple of years of campaigning before he was allowed into the qualifiers.So all those years i guess you would agree were not "proper" world championships?

Still waiting again for an answer from sidney on the sentence he wrote and which years........ But here is something.....sidney writes that Ronnie Moore was active 22 years and got to 15 world finals.What he doesn't say is in those active years Ronnie spent 57,64,65, 66,67 + 68 away from the sport.stats look pretty good when you remember that little fact Also look at Maugers stats.24 years active.But come on 1957+58 Ivan was a complete novice who could hardly break into the Wimbledon team,and then spent 59,60,61 + 62 on the other side of the world where it was impossible for him to qualify.Shows the downfall of the old system where a rider like Ivan was shut out of the world title challenge because he didn't ride in Britain at the time.So there straight away is 6 out of the 24 years where he stood basically no chance

I guess it backs up sidney's statement from yesterday "The ones they rode in FINALS, they all got there on merit wasnt given to them on a plate had to qualify every year different test.What did briggo ride in 19 finals? legend, Dont get me wrong Gollob Crumpy Hancock i admire greatly and am privaliged to have seen all 3ride.. The only difference is WIE JA is come OCTOBER every year they Know they have qualified for the next year.If that had been the case for Briggo Fundin Mauger Olsen they would of had another 20 world titles between them. " I am really interested to find out which 20 world championship wins sidney thinks were unfair and these chosen few would have won instead if there had been a GP system.Doesn't matter really though,because that is obviously evidence from sidney just how poor the old world finals were if approx 20 titles were won unfairly.It means in the yeasr these riders were active i.e from 1951-1984(that is 33 years),20 years were compromised!!!!!Pretty damning stats those......

No.We keep hearing about Michael Lee + even Jack Young who were around a bit further back than 16 years ago.......

Again i say to your questions both YES +YES.It most certainly is better than what we had before and it most certainly has made progress and moved into the 21 century.It is a far fairer way of deciding a world champion.very hard to either fluke or buy a title in the GP series.Much much harder than the previous system.And just look at the presentation at for instance Parken or even Gelsenkirchen the first year and i imagine Cardiff as well.I find it far far better than anything i have seen at league level.It is a great atmosphere and moves along at a good pace until the latter stages at least(which tend to drag imo) and is visually very colourful and exciting.You just can't compare it to any league venue,which still tend to be more 1950s than 2012.So please tell us who you have talked to that was unfairly left out of the qualification rounds?

Like BFD and others have pointed out,you have made your point a number of times.We know you and a few others don't like the GPs.I don't see what banging on and on about it all the time is going to do.Doesn't matter how many times it is pointed out that the old system was terribly flawed and not very popular with promoters nor fans either for that matter you ignore these facts.You go on about it only being a proper World Championship if all riders compete,but have you actually talked to one rider who thinks he has unfairly been left out of qualifying?Have you or Sidney got as many riders that say they dislike the system and feel it is flawed as Phil Rising has talked to who say they like the system?All over the world there are meetings used as qualifiers....The Australian Championship now is used as a qualifier is it not?And you just have to read what some promoters post here to know how difficult it can be sometimes for them to get British riders to travel within the borders of the country,so i don't see how it is likely that every rider will be willing and able to travel abroad for a qualifier if they get that far......It is just nonsense some old codgers are talking here,looking back at the good old days.

Think the fact that it is his stepfather explains that

Oh sorry.Guess i should have known you like the basic idea,but not the way Bavarian said it should be run But as White Knight hasn't put any part in bold then the question goes out to him.But seeing as he didn't answer,nor as far as i know did sidney answer any of my points on the other thread,after i so painstakingly answered his points i might be waiting a while for an answer.......

Run this past me again....you like the idea of a pairs competition acting as a qualifier for the year afters WTC,but think that the individual qualifiers the year before for the GPs compromise or degrade the individual World Championship competition

Well in case it has not been noticed by you, this year young riders do have to travel to Argentina to compete in the U21 World Championship series.

No-one is saying the GPs are faultless.We have been there before.But that has absolutely nothing to do with your argument.Darcy was IN the qualifying system and FAILED to get through...... So what are you arguing about?You now seem to be saying because Argentina do not have a GP they shouldn't have a round in your fantasy World Championship.I guess you want to go back to the old system where most riders are in the quali's and most rounds are held in England?Hardly a "World" Championship is it?I remember a few years ago when Ivan Mauger held a round of the Longtrack series in NZ and a few Europeans moaned,one it seems from Ivans statement about the fact that he wouldn't win his title in front of his own fans.Mauger said he never had the chance to win the title in front of his own fans.So if you want a true World Championship why shouldn't NZ,Australia and Argentina be allowed to host rounds.And by that i mean international rounds,not just national rounds of your World Championship.And how do you think these young riders will be able to pay for these trips 1,000s of miles away from home?Because it canT truly be called a World Championship can it,if all the rounds are in Europe,preferably near England to cut the costs a bit

It is only "grossly inadequate" in your opinion.Any rider who has a fair chance of doing anything in the GPs and plenty of others who have next to no chance of doing anything all have the chance to qualify.You seem to be asking "why aren't more riders who have no chance being let in?".Quite frankly you seem to be fighting a cause that only exists in your mind and not one that any of the riders are fighting for.....

That is what some here fail to understand.If we had this open World Championship that Parsloes dreams of as being the only true "World Championship" worth the title.What happens if Argentina(which they would have every right to, surely?) applies for a round?How does Parsloes think even decent EL standard riders could fund a trip?And what about the rising young teenager in his first year who manages to get through the British qualies only to find he has won himself a spot in South America for the next round......it doesn't work looking at other sports and saying this is how they do it,why don't we?

You fail to understand what i said.The costs are not the same now,because a rider has to travel more.Back when you are talking about a rider could get almost to the Final just by riding in England.Now tell me the costs are the same as travelling to Latvia,Italy or Ukraine as it would be to travel to Poole or Birmingham....

Can only agree with you Philip.Some people here live in a time that has long since gone.It isn't possible any longer to get to the World Final by just or mainly riding in meetings in Britain.If we had the rather unlikely scenario that a PL or NL rider got through the old style British rounds he wouldn't be facing another round at King's Lynn,but more than likely a very costly trip to Eastern Europe,where if he did turn up he would have practicaly no chance of getting near qualifying for the next round.You'd end up with riders dropping out rather like the situation in some competitions now such as the European Championship.Last year i was at a round in Stralsund where two riders tied for a run-off but one rider found out where the next round was if he won and decided to drop out of the run-off.Some people just don't think of the cost of all this on Promoters and riders.The world has changed since the 60s + 70s

Same here.Lovely spring day today,but mostly rainy and grey.Saw on the news yesterday that in middle Germany at one place they have gone from 60cm snow down to 18cm in just over a week because of the mild temps....

For the early birds the first round of the Russian Final in Novosibirisk has started online http://www.sibnet.ru/stream/moto/

Seems it has ended his world title challenge and going by one headline i saw maybe his season

Not really surprised at that statement from Irina

Seems they were quite happy with young Myshkovets in Ufa.The first of the Krasnikov youngsters at only 15 years.Must have just missed the youngest trainee at 5 years old who fell off twice before the parade because his helmet was too heavy for his head But i tuned a few minutes too late.

In fairness there are two points i can think of.1.Poland is the speedway stronghold.It has enough fans to fill the stadiums without foreign fans.....2.Poland isn't an or on an island,so it is fairly easy for fans from neighbouring countries to get there by road and train. I think Cardiff needs to attract quite a few foregn fans and i do believe if the GP was in London it would be able to attract a lot more foregn fans.Saying that,it would need someone with a lot of money to spend on making it possible.But like Humphrey,i think if that person was to come along and offer to fund the project then Cardiff would be dropped pretty quickly.Not very likely though

Think on point one you need to go back and read what Phil said and my answer On point two.I kill two birds with one stone with Wembley.I get to visit my family and see a GP.Cardiff on the other hand is too much bother.You might find that hard to believe,but how many times in my life have i ever been to Cardiff?Answer.....zilch.So proof of the pudding is in the eating