iris123

I would say this is often the speedway fan view.As i posted on the Superprestigio thread,Flat track was tried out alongside speedway/Longtrack and a lot f fans cried out that they didn't want to be spending money watching it,rather if there was going to be more races,then please,more speedway.Guess it is the same with the Speedway Star,that fans don't want cycle speedway or flat track or now grasstrack taking up any space.Must say when i got the Star i didn't begrudge the Grasstrack section,i just thought it was poorly presented when compared to the speedway sections

Attached thumbnails premier league!!! Is it something to do with Conkers maybe or Tiddlywinks?

I would agree with gustix on this.Wasn't the scene at the time so disconnected and hard to tell who really was top as they weren't riding against each other on a regular basis.Hard even to know just who was the best dirt track rider in America.Jim Davis and Ralph Hepburn rode in Australia in 1924 and Eddie Brinck and maybe one or two others rode in 1926 for instance.Then in the early 30s Miny waln seemed to be the best or at least as good as Elder.... Significantly i haven't heard of any Australians doing the opposite trip and racing in the US.Sure i read somewhere that these trips were a promotional thing by the US manufacturers.Might be wrong on that though

I was wondering the same,especially as gustix has stated it is not just a British based form thing Possibly the difficulty in getting good results to compare

I fear it is all getting a bit confusing......

Got to give them a little credit(only a little).....at least they didn't just do a copy of the NBA logo as the German Bundesliga did.They even just used the red,white and blue of the US which has nothing to do with Germany!!!!!! .

Oh dear!! Will Norbold start a new thread for another two forum members? No,just joking.It is all opinions,apart from when a mistake is made and a rider has hardly ridden in a certain period.I asked BL65 about Charlie Monk in 1965 and he gave a good explanation.Still sort of think Monk should be in the top 10 for that year,but at least convinced Plechanov deserves to be above him.No big deal and no theatrics about it

As has been posted before on another thread Miller was highly rated,especially for a second division rider http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=80674&page=2 Talking of Miller brings back wonderful memories for me of that day in November when young Josie scored on his debut as the Celts steamrollered Dundee on their way to the Centenary year title

Guess it is very weighted towards the world final?I mean Charlie was on 10.28 from 40 meetings in the league and won all his quali meetings up to the British Final when he was controversially excluded and also won the Internationale at Wimbledon.How many meetings have you then used to judge someone like Plechanov,who never won a quali meeting in the run up to the world final and got beat by Monk in the WTC.Just asking rather than arguing mind

Is an excellent piece of work.I do wonder why Charlie Monk,who had a super season in 1965 doesn't make the top 10.But the end result is pretty conclusive.Good to see Nordin in instead of Lammy as i suggested

That woud make sense.I myself once overheard two riders who were in a run-off for a low key championship deciding to share the prize money and go out and give an "exhibition" race in that run-off.They went around popping wheelies and riding side by side.One set of fans thought it the greatest thing they had ever seen.Another set thought it was a disgrace and they had been robbed of seeing the meeting decided by a real race.....

Much harder i would say.If someone is enough points ahead of his nearest opponent then there is no need to pay anyone to lose etc.In such a short meeting of 20 heats there is more opportunity/need,i would say.So much so,that this year the Champ didn't even need to complete the final meeting.A disgrace of another sort imo and robbing the fans of a proper finale.Could almost equate that with paying riders off..... The only time i have heard of any deals was in the Gelsenkirchen big money final,when the 4 finalists supposedly agreed to share the prize money before the race.But that wasn't a deal to win a title.Whereas there are quite a number of stories from the 1930s through to the 80s at least of payments being made in one-off world finals

Well i would say the GP series is far better at showing just who is one of the greatest riders of the era,apart from the obvious when someone decides not to participate

I have to be realistic Sid.I used to enjoy the whole NL qualifying rounds through to the various Continental rounds etc.Went to a few rounds,British semi-finals at Plough Lane for instance,but i was in the minority.And although there is nothing to match the excitement of a world final,i would rather see the best rider win the title rather than some lucky guy who was seeded through.It annoys me a bit with the GP Challenge that someone who already got knocked out in a previous round can get a wild card through.......grrrrr

Think they should have more Flat track of this kind.No fannying around at the start http://flattrackstats.com/teams/results/europe

On the same level of professionalism as Long Track,when James Shanes can qualify for the GPS and someone like Kylmäkorpi can ride only about 5 or 6 meetings a season and still become World Champion in front of those riders who ride Long Track ever weekend.....

I doubt there is any probably about it.They are hardy going to compensate someone for paying way over the odds on the black market now,are they?

As i mentioned yesterday on the Tom Farndon thread and has been mentioned many times before,the one off World Final was very exciting,but was open to manipulation

They did start having Flat track meetings or at least races alongside speedway/longtrack in Germany.In general the speedway fans were fairly voiciferous against it.Not wanting to spend money on an "alien" sport and wanting more opportunities for young speedway riders rather than Flat track or short track as i think it was called.The flat trackers themselves really didn't bring many more fans to the meeting,o after a few years it all seemed to disappear.I quite liked the quads myself

Well i did start a list on the Farndon thread of the best England-Australian pre-war riders.It might have been that list that was the inspiration for this thread.In reality you would only add the American riders to the best English and Australians.I could only see maybe Kilmister of NZ and Gibbs of Canada as outside contenders.Though as i mentioned previously would someone like Rye make it because of one great season or do you go for someone who had a number of decent seasons?All a matter of opinion Unlike cyclone,who put up a good list i do feel the test meetings between England and Australia were some of the big big meetings pre-war and should also be taken into consideration I thought he rode for Birmingham in 1949? At least on Speedway Researcher he is included in the NL averages for Birmingham that year and is not in the 1950 averages.Maybe you have made a mistake?The excellent site has Lammy riding for the Lions in 1948 http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/docs/1950/nl1averages.pdf

But they do seem to get a decent track down that doesn't break up like indoor speedway meetings that i have seen.As a one-off it is quite exciting,but overtaking is pretty tough

As i mentioned before,i would question the inclusion of Lammy who rode 1 year over the likes of say Michanek,who qualified for a couple of world finals in that period and say Göte Nordin Always hard to decide if 1 good season counts more than a few not quite so good ones.Then we could say should Claude Rye be chosen for the pre-war period as he had a pretty good league season finishing i think around 3rd in the averages and also won a world title in Paris...plus another one a year later.But i think he did beat Wilkinson one year as well as another who could be included,Billy Lamont

Absolutely.Doesn't matter who sues who if at the end those to blame end up paying up.Maybe it will bring and end to passing the buck and thinking they can get away scot free from poor organisation

Bit strange i would say to include Lammy in 1949-1968 period when he only rode in the first year and ok he qualified for the world final,but 4 other riders finished ahead of him in that final and 3 others in the NL averages