iris123

I must have been lucky,or unlucky if you like.I made one trip to Cradley and after beating Nielsen in the Golden Helmet,Gundersen then went on to get around 5 or 6 in the meeting against Oxford.I also went to Reading and you know what Per Jonsson got about 5 or 6 points!!! Obviously you are underestimating the impact as I am still talking about those meetings decades after lol

We can all get it wrong now and again.Funny though when Nicki posted he was disappointed to be out of the GPs,I said Danish Speedway was in the doldrums and was going to say in a few years the Danish GP would be held at Holsted or Slangerup I am not sad at this news as Vojens is very easy to get to and as long as the roadworks are finished by next summer,quite quick as well.Easier to get to than Teterow for me

But you can't argue the fact that of the 5 major finals not at Wembley that Craven rode in he wasn't great in any of them.10th in the world final and I think 8 pts from a possible 12 was his best in a WTC final.That over a period of a few years.He didn't adapt.Briggs and Fundin even Moore were better as was Knutson

Thought he sounded very disappointed on FB yesterday,rather than not too fussed,but it did sound as if that was the end of his GP career

Don't remember that at all.I went to one grass track meeting in the mid 70s,but that was Kent or Surrey way.I do though remember we used to have the Kent junior grass track club do a second half each season.Think Dave Jessup turned out in one of those meetings.I was thinking Michael Lee was an excepetion starting out riding so young,but obviously my memory is going!!!

Fair enough.I see the likes of Dean Barker and Havelock were 8 or 10 years old then.I didn't realise they started so early

But Craven had a style that maybe wasn't equipped for other tracks abroad.His record seems to suggest he wasn't that great,at least in major finals.1 world individual and 4 WTc finals abroad And the point I am making is more often than not in domestic meetings at or against Wimbledon Craven was beaten when he met the better riders.Hardly beat Briggo,Ronnie and Peter Moore all season,but did much better against the lesser riders.

National titles are no longer a mark of greatness.I think the rider with the most Danish final wins is Niels Kristian Iversen and that in the Nicki Pedersen era.Now nobody in their right mind will try to use those titles to suggest NKI is better than Nicki let alone Hans Nielsen and Ole Olsen

Further to my theory on PC,i did a random check on how he went at my old club Wimbledon in 1956(the year he was reigning world champion) In the opening meeting of the season he finished 6th on 9 pts,behind R.Moore,Briggo,A.Forrest,A.Wright and Ken Middleditch.Now the first few ok world class,but the last couple? Then he rode in a best pairs and got beat by Crutcher,Ronnie Moore,Peter Moore,A.Wright,Briggo but did beat Fundin and Aub Lawson Then in NL got beat by Briggo and Ronnie and also lost a Golden Helmet match race against Ronnie 2-0 Even at Belle Vue he then got beat by Briggo,P + R.Moore At Plough Lane in the next match he got beat by Brine,P + R.Moore,but did win his heat against Maidment and reserve Goldfinch!! In the next meeting at BV he was beaten by Hagon and How,then by Hagon and in his heat against Briggo and Ronnie Moore he fell In the Laurels he was actually top scorer in the quails,only being beaten by Peter Moore,but was last in his semi final against P.Moore,Hunt and How The next meeting at BV he got a max,so can take nothing away from him there Then in the meeting at Plough Lane he was beaten by P.Moore then Ronnie beat him then Ronnie and Briggo beat him,then P.Moore beat him and he finished in front of Briggo!!then he beat Brine and How and then Ronnie beat him but he beat Peter So really in a season when he was world champ he didn't have a very great set of results at Plough Lane and even at home wasn't really looking like a world champ Also looking at his appearances abroad in 4 WTC finals and he never was better than the 4th best scorer in any of those meetings!!!

My opinion is that is isn’t easy to compare 100%.We can point to the fact that PC died at a stage where it was still possible to win more titles.My one doubt about him was his very poor performance in Sweden.A different time,but Craven made some great performances in challenge meetins in Poland and Russia.But against Polish and Russian riders,who were good but not the best.Tai has proved himself around Europe and the world against the very best.There can be no doubt about his ability on various tracks.Not quite so sure because of Malmo,we can say the same about Craven and any British rider from that era or before

We have a hell of a lot of riders who have been riding speedway since they were 5,6 or 7 years old.That was pretty well unheard of 30 years ago.Riders started as teenagers generally.10 years of experience must pay dividends.That is without the fitness,diet,psychological aspects of modern sport

You could ask if Trick was riding in the 60s/70s would he have won so many titles?If Briggo was riding in the 90s would he?What if Craven was riding today,how many titles would he have won.Generally impossible to answer,apart from if PC was about today he and Tai would clean up in the pairs

The interesting thing going on from a previous topic on Havvy,when someone questioned under a GP system would he have even been in the GPS the year he won his title.I guess we could say with some degree of certainty that Jerzy would be doubtful for 1973.Muller though I think would have been quite a regular in the GPs during the 70s-80s period.Think he could have made it into the 8-10 position often enough and being such a media star would have been given 1 or 2 wild cards as there would probably have been a German GP Jerzy on the other hand I think would have only managed a meeting wc at best

We'll have someone saying he only has a 9 pt average so can't even be as good as Malcolm Simmons,who had a 10.9 average and won the pairs a few times,come along soon!!!

He was even picked out by Briggo before the season started as a big favorite to win.And I have a 1972 season review that picks Jerzy as a dark horseto win the 1973 title,so neither was such a surprise as people today seem to think Fact is though neither would really have been a favorite over a GP season.Egon might well be up there as a contender for a medal.A certainty to get in the top 8 I would say

I really don’t see the problem.Baring injury the best rider wins in the end and has the bottle to take the title.In a one day final just as in the GPs you get to a situation where you realize you can win the title and lesser riders lose their bottle whilst champs don’t

The Monster Loony Party suggested it and got what percentage of the vote?Kinda own goal there I guess lol

Er you said it is basically an invitation series without even knowing how many qualify?!?!?!?!

Doesn’t matter.You said the magic word ‘qualify’!! Only a very small proportion are picked.Who qualifies in F1?How many qualify in Tennis or are there qualification rounds in the world cycling championship?Speedway at least has a quali route

But nothing in Sweden,Poland,Russia,Germany and not even in Glasgow!!!

But it isn’t.You have to qualify for the GPs just as for most sporting championships.The qualification specifications are set out beforehand.It doesn’t make it any less a proper world championship because Hancock can’t get knocked out in some quali round and Ben Barker can somehow fluke a decent meeting on his home track and make i through

Yes,and as I said there was an extensive debate about this very subject on that thread after he came a step nearer to winning his next title.But as graham said I do think people are waiting until the title comes home first.But for some even if he does win it still won’t make him the best in their opinion.Look forward to it all....

Think there was quite a lengthy discussion about him and the ‘best’ situation.On the Teterow thread

R&R is a bit late on the scene here mate.Think a few raised an eye brow in spring.But it’s better late than never

Rumour is UFA will host the European championship