pandorum

I used to watch a league with 20 odd teams in it that had no superstars whatsoever in it. We made our own. There was always teams who were weaker than others so we saw walkovers and were walkedover as tracks were different and bikes not tuned by expensive ex riders. But the sport was exciting to watch without interminable delays whilst someone fiddled with a bike or farted around digging a ditch at the start. Stadiums were generally well attended and sometimes packed from start to 4th bend. They were hardly ultra modern but provided what we craved. A bloody good night out. Of course the sport failed to compete with all the other distractions people had in the 80s 90s etc but the basic idea was good. 4 blokes of comparable skills with bikes that were affordable and reasonably reliable riding around in an oval on a track prepared toallow them to show their skills and even have a go at someone who was much higher up in a team. So to answer your question. What is a weak team? We always had heat leaders and reserves but then a reserve could beat a heat leader on his own track. A reserve could go through the card and beat all the opposition back then. Seen it myself many times. But for a FTR to do that even if given a chance would be a stone cold miracle. We had the NNL and the BL and even in the BL weak teams sometimes wiped out strong teams. The sport has changed a lot in 40 years but ALL for the worse. It's not just the chasm between the riders, which most of the FTR riders will never bridge, it's the track, the rules, the way the ref allows the meeting to drag on forever, the lack of any real value for money or even excitement as even at the much vaunted play (albeit from a computer screen)offs I have heard more noise in my local library. Crowds used to bring down the roof watching this exciting sport. Nowadays they prefer to read the programme during the race. Everything that ever got me to every speedway stadium in the country several times a year has gone from the sport. Except for the blokes riding around the oval which I can see at home. It's so sad to see something I loved fall so far but those in charge were oblivious to the problems. They obviously feel that what they have is VFM and moving forward to a bright new future. If so the sport has finally been handed over to the lunatics.

No I would be calling her 'your majesty' I don't know people here from Adam. There is no clue in the name unfortunately. UK martin could be a code for a transsexual from Chipping Sodbury and I would never know that. Trees can be male too. You would never know from Pandorum that I am actually the Prime Minister of The Faroe Islands and to be honest why should you care Sadly that tells you everything you need to know about these lunatics. The Emperors new Clothes comes to mind. The only place the sport is moving here in Britain is Oblivion and it's doing that at a dreadfully slow pace that if it was human or a horse then Dignitas and a shotgun would become involved.

It's the opportunity for gamesmanship I don't like mate. Opens a floodgate for cheating.

Agree. That is an awful idea.

Well that will pack them back in. If they had gone for the green helmet I might have been tempted back. Another missed opportunity. A complete waste of a weekend really which they could have spent getting drunk or playing golf or both. But glad the EL is healthy and with luck there will be a repeat of this years excitement as Poole find a way to tweak their team and win it again. Hey that's speedway

Did not know that and care even less She would if she was anthough which would make her a bit of a hypocrite

It's Mickey Mouse because in most cases it does not serve it's purpose. The old tac sub rule (which is used in all the important leagues) allows a team to hit back once 6 points down. The UK rule is dependant on luck as a team may not have anyone to utilise straight away once 10 points down as it may be several heats before an opportunity arises and as such may fall further behind. They may have to waste it on someone who is having a poor night or lose the opportunity. The UK rule helps the better teams with three 'heat leaders' who could throw a Ward or Holder in but is very little help to the poorer teams who may only have one top rider. It's basically a lottery and a complete oxymoron as it allows for virtually no tactics. The old rule allows for team tactics and sacrifices to allow a better option for the heat after going 6 points down. A tactical rule has indeed been around in speedway for a while with the express purpose of allowing close scores. One rule allows a team to take advantage of this and the other doesn't. It's not as if speedway is trying to land a probe on a comet. It's simplicity itself.

A woman of great principle. Wonder if she remembers this next time she talks to Ward who may not have been found guilty but is without doubt just the horrible type of scroat she rails about. Oh well she has had her 15 minutes of fame and can now return to the obscurity of UK speedway. Somebody on Newsnight should have asked. "Charlie how important is it not to have rapists at Sheffield Utd?"

Probably because it is too stupid for words and would not stand up in a court in Bongo BongoLand let alone one here. It's fantasy speedway played out by speedway's fantasists. I am sure World Champion Greg Hancock cares tuppence which team in the UK owns him but obviously someone thinks they do.

That is a worrying trend for speedway riders. Just look at poor old Darcy Ward. He can't go out and abuse a woman, get drunk, beaten up or be chased by police driving a lawnmower or whatever it was without someone reporting this in the media. The two are surely entitled to a private life. Speedway Star should be ashamed as old people tend to fart a lot more than young folks and sometimes in the most inappropriate places.

I dunno your idiot reply makes you rather fit in with that lot. I can invite you to a great many posts here I myself made with ideas for helping speedway. But then rather a lot of people here fall into that category. Or do you think you are the only one here who can be serious. Lighten up and stop thinking the posts here must always be serious and po faced. It's speedway after all and without a sense of humour and cynical irony one would go mental in a place like this.

I have said TOO much!

So that's your plan! Get a famous footballer to let his kid ride a speedway bike at one of out rubbish tips and a new Golden Age will magically appear. His girlfriend is probably more associated with bikes and more people know who she is. What next get Winona Ryder to manage Poole Pirates? The sport has a mountain of real problems to climb and needs to start now to address them. We will see soon enough whether anyone sane remains in charge.

Well I won't be at Poole and am not a Darcy or Poole fan but he is an exciting rider that is indisputable just not a nice person I like watching Russians personally and enjoy watching Darcy get stuffed by them

Sadly that is true but it could make having foreign riders an expensive (team building wise) commodity. As you say give them a high average regardless of ability. Perhaps give a dispensation to a rider who commits to Brit racing and bases themselves here as not all foreigners are mercenaries. It's a position the BSPA have gotten themselves into and the FTR shows they now realise that. These idiots got us into this mess and it's about time they took measures to get us out of it. Have two leagues of comparable standard without the top riders. In other words PL level. Race on any night you like or can. Maybe introduce a meaningful promotion relegation system where teams have a chance to progress if they wish. Star status is simply a state of mind and we got along nicely in the old NNL days without International Speedway riders. Bring back the excitement of supporting a team that actual is a team rather than a bunch of nomads. Surely SKY or BT would be interested in covering such a league as it would be exciting as we saw the rise of new star riders. Whatever they do it must be different to what they do now as it is clear to see what they are doing is not working. But we all know what will happen. Watered down more expensive speedway with tons of cash going to the handful of International Speedway riders and little or nothing to the future.

I predict 217 pages with 3027 posts. We will conclude that Darcy Ward is a total arcehole but a great rider and deserved all he got whatever that was but we will be glad to see him back racing. But surely that is what is called a debate?

They should all sit in a room and drink a Jager shot every time someone says Poole. Then after a few hours each member should come up with an idea. They should then vote on which idea to adopt whilst still drunk. and resolve to adopt that idea once they sober up. Who knows they might just come up with something to save the sport as doing this sober has not worked out that well now has it?

I have to admit I enjoyed watching those Californian glamour boys a lot. Scott Autry was one of my favourite riders. But back then they rode here as their main way of making a living and we were lucky enough to see them. Nowadays that would not have happened as they would all be in Poland Phil Rising made a good point in response to my post. Yes the superstars did indeed enhance the top league here but it was when the Jim Tebby's lost out to the poor quality foreign imports flown in to fill rosters in the 2nd tier that the slide began. We trained the worlds riders at the expense of our Jim Tebby's and look where that got us. All those vital #2 and #4 spots were hired out to sub standard European riders who generally did not give a toss about our league. We had a staple of Jim Tebby's and Aussie upandcomers and it worked well. Then we opened the door to Europe's Jim Tebby's who were no better but had unusual names so we were excited they had been brought in and the rest is history. I never paid a lot of attention to the hype of those Californian glamour boys but sure as hell enjoyed watching the Tests against the USA and matches that included one of them. But teams had a nucleus of Jim Tebby's and that was what made the sport what it was not Bruce Penhall exciting as he was to watch. Obviously bike costs are important as has been discussed here well before I turned up. But how much was spent flying in poor quality imports when a Jim Tebby local to the track may well have scored as many and actually cared about the team he rode for. And as Phil said race nights are another nail in the coffin. Yes as Phil said we need Greg Hancocks but how many of those who were flown in to fill 2nd string and reserve spots did we need? The FTR program was a desperation measure that may well have done some good but imagine if we had done that 20 years ago and encouraged our own instead of being a testing track for foreign riders with little interest in UK racing. For every Gollob there are dozens of star flops who cost a fortune to fly in to score zero and look out of their depth. Surely a kid from the backstreets local to the track could have done that if not more

Indeed Phil Rising has hit the nail on the head. Jim Tebby's used to make up most teams when I was a kid and the sport was a lot more simple then with actual teams. But the zeitgeist that made up the 60s and 70s has long since changed. Speedway here will never recapture those days but maybe it could find a niche for itself with a cheaper form all round for spectators and riders. But that would need a root and branch face lift and I seriously doubt the sport has any leadership that could achieve that. It is obsessed with bringing back the so called top riders when they are what killed it in the first place. Speedway needs the Jim Tebby's rather than the Greg Hancock's or even Tai Woffinden's. We could speak in platitudes and say the sport is at a crossroads or has reached a tipping point but that was years ago. Now it is a matter of how the sport manages to cope and survive with it's self inflicted lot. It's a very minor sport which is dying and needs a boost. Many of the answers lie in the pages of this forum but nobody who matters cares to read them. It's funny but to me speedway lost it's way when it sought foreign 'stars' and allowed the Jim Tebby's to be lost to the sport.

. It's all about impression and if they don't give a toss about the toilets then maybe the rest is pretty poor too.

Hope he recovers as he is one entertaining rider. Sad but part of this dangerous but exhilarating sport

Post of the year by a mile Perhaps they should talk about bringing back the Green helmet as that is sorely missed

At least most of the guests were British.

I like Tarasienko so nice to see he did well. Another Laguta hope we get a chance to see him next year

Not have anymore BSPA meetings