pandorum

Why do people assume that when people debate these issue they are assuming they know more than the BSPA? It's a discussion forum and people are discussing things. People discuss football without running Man Utd or managing the England team so why can't they do it in speedway? I once discussed the Moon landings but am not an astronaut.

They will probably make a radical change from last year to freshen up this rule. Instead of a black and white helmet they will introduce a brand new white and black helmet to take the tactical ride. And probably charge an extra quid to pay for this innovation

I won't argue with you there we all assume when we are poorly informed. I agree with you let's give them time but like many here I am not convinced they will deliver and their track record is not good sadly. It will be a couple of interesting few months let's hope for once this crew can actually deliver something

Not according to some here that are more informed of the way the BSPA work. They apparently had regular meetings during the season and a pre AGM so they must have had some discussion on the subject and had some idea of how it would work. If it was just chucked in over the weekend then fans have every right to be scornful of such a half thought out plan. It's a bit unfair to criticise fans for not falling at the feet in gratitude at the BSPA reducing the product for the paying public. Of course it's something worthy and long overdue and yes we don't know the detail but then the detail seems to be unknown also to those who thought of it. We saw riders from the PL like that Lawson kid find it impossible to make ends meet in the EL so how difficult will it be for the NL boys. I wish the NL lads all the luck in the world and hope they gain something out of the experience but we all know why they are getting this chance and it's not because the BSPA care about the National Team or the youngsters they will use to fill EL rosters now the Golden Goose has flown and all the eggs were wasted on Greg Hancock and his ilk. A well thought out program with obtainable goals set for the progression of these lads will indeed be a great idea that all fans should support but this seems like the EL is short of cash and 5 regular paid riders and 2 NL kids rather than expensive foreign rubbish fits the bill. The sensible reservations people here have will have to be dealt with before the season starts so people saying March is a long way off are naive. There are a lot of problems to be addressed long before the new season starts. I wonder how long the queue will be of NL kids wanting to race in the top league. How they will be distributed and how they will be competetive are serious concerns. The new format idea is good but again it seems that nobody as yet knows what it will be. If 2 reserve heats and still 15 heats that further dilutes the product which was not worth the price at EL level this year. People will be asked to pay more for less once again. Another serious concern for fan and promoter. Let's not kid ourselves that these people are some kind of geniuses. They are doing this because the sport is up a certain creek without any oars. The coming weeks will be very interesting and hopefully something good can come out of it at the end.

Come on be fair we have all been drunk before on a Sunday and had to cobble together a good reason why we will be late Monday morning. This is the BSPA equivalent of that. Some good points made here by fans who actually have a bit of an idea of how difficult this very worthy notion to blood youngsters will actually be to implement. When the BSPA sober up and realise just what it is they propose we may well see some backtracking. They haven't got a clue these imbiciles and this hasty cost cutting excercise may well fall at the first hurdle that of actually FINDING youngsters to fill 20 berths for #6 and #7 If they paid more attention to fans they might learn something. But panic must have set in when they realised they have pretty much bankrupted the sport with thier petty ineptitude. Basically we now have five man teams and novices at reserve for what £17? Will they dare raise prices more than that? It's the most worthy idea these clowns have had for decades but they have done it out of sheer panic rather than well thought out forward thinking and as such made a complete arce of themselves. No change there then A very fair point but surely it begs the question why the BSPA have decided on such a radical solution without having any idea how to actually achieve it. Do these youngsters know they will be asked to ride in the EL next year. Are any of them capable of taking up such an offer. A system of progression NL/PL/EL is a great idea but this is such a radical step that surely those expected to fulfill the BSPA aspirations should be ready to step in and fill the huge breach between the leagues. I think fine tuning is a euphemism for sheer panic once the season draws near. It's something that fans here have been advocating for years. I have blathered on about it myself here. But perhaps it is a step TOO far to expect NL kids to fill EL rosters without PL experience first. Maybe a season where this was implemented at PL level with maybe EL a year later. To be fair to the lemmings in charge it's not easy to produce a production liine of new talent from scratch and existing programmes are apparently helping to bring young lads on a bit. But maybe this will be too much for youngsters and be detrimental to thier progress rather than help them. The idea that it is some master plan to help youngsters is of course laughable and nobody here will be fooled by it. It's to save money as it's all been frittered away on those that will dump the EL for the more lucrative leagues unless they need some laps at the end of the season like Hancock. But the sad part is it should have BEEN a master plan with a definite idea how to achieve it and some sort of stepped progression for young riders to achieve. We will see if this idea will work and what effect it will have on upandcoming speedway riders. Let's hope for thier sake it does work. I think we all back the sentiment simply are not convinced of the BSPAs commitment to it.

It's never stopped these idiots in the past. They will probably just forget this very worthy aspiration half way through the season and go back to training Polish and Danish youngsters.

The Jon Cook statement makes things a bit clearer and it begs the question why they did not just let him make the BSPA statement in the first place as he obviously knows what he is talking about At last something sensible coming out of Idiot Central but this should have been done years ago. Learning from the proper leagues at last but sadly as a byproduct of abject failure and a desperate need to cut costs rather than the forward thinking we needed. But still welcome all the same. Sadly the loss of Peterborough nothing short of a disaster and March is a long way off yet so who knows how many more will follow. How well this new dawn pans out remains to be seen as the handful of top riders are not certain to remain in EL next year. Will this result in a reduction of cost to the spectator as the Lindgrens and possibly Holders depart or any form of actual promotion of the sport. A TV deal would be a bonus true but will the money it brings in be used to invest in the sport rather than pick up the slack in Greg Hancocks season? Still so much uncertainty for the sport which is not in a strong position for the new season as a result of the lack of vision by the clowns in charge. Seeing the light because you are forced to is different to having a foward thinking leadership. The BSPA are still a bunch of idiots but giving them credit where it's due these idiots have at last taken a step forward for whatever reason. This is no new Golden Dawn of the sport rather a realisation that at some point when digging a hole you must stop or you will bury yourself. Let's hope something positive comes out of the 2014 season. It's about bloody time to be honest.

I agree that rewarding a team for a good away performance was a really good idea long overdue. But the BSPA could not resist being daft after such a good idea by rewarding a team who slaughters the opposition at home. The extra point for a home massacre is a silly idea. Better to allow a bonus point for the aggregate win which again allows for a good away performance. The idea is to promote good speedway so in a sport where home advantage is so strong keeping the opposition interested should be a priority. The tried and tested formula isn't failing. It's the team building that has failed miserably. It's racing surfaces that are failing. It's the bringing on of new talent that has failed. It's the overcomplicated rules that have failed. Everything about speedway is failing except the core idea of 4 man races over 4 laps. What difference does it make to have one lap or 5 laps when the riders in the race cannot compete. Two teams that are competetive racing on a circuit that is prepared for racing will produce good speedway.

Hardly likely as it's only a job for a week. Middlo did not have to leave Poole to get the job. For what I can see the main prerequisite for the job is to actually want it as the competition is hardly intense

Well it goes to show you learn something new every day as I did not know that. Still it says something when they do all this and still bugger everything up. But very well made point all the same.

Very laudible of Ford but the most glaringly obvious failing of the so called promoters is that they always try to solve the problems with a 3 day booze up/get together at the end of the season. The problems have been obvious now for years and they should have been discussing this among themselves all this season and been able to come to this p#ss up with a solid agenda for change that had been discussed among themselves in small groups over the season. They should already have a blueprint for the sport's future and use this 3 day bash to ratiffy and fine tune it. This meeting of minds (now that is a laugh) is akin to waiting until you have been tied to the firing post as the firing squad line up and at the command 'Aim' suddenly manage to raise a hand and say 'ah yes but wait a minute I think I might have a solution to my innocence'. 3 days is nowhere near enough to solve the sports problems. And now discussing solutions (Brit only reserves) that have been raised here for years whilst slagging off people here as fringe lunatics shows how inept this bunch of clowns are. 'Hinted at' and 'could be discussed' this is the level of ineptitude we have in UK speedway. The wolf is at the door and he is huffing and puffing and the cardboard house that is British Speedway looks like it is about to be blown down by it's own greed and maladroitness so it's a bit late ringing up a bricklayer. Brit reserves is an absolute must for speedway here and should have been implemented 10 year ago. But it won't save the sport and be like trying to save the Titanic with a session of prayer. The sport is too expensive for both rider, promoter and spectator. The current product is not worth the cost. Costs need to come down markedly but enetertainment value needs to improve radically. Promoters need to promote and leave the paying customer feeling like they have had 2 hours of entertainment. It's not a pipedream as I have attended many a meeting where we got just that. Look to the past to secure some kind of future whilst incorporating the modern era of marketing and social networking to bring the sport to the attention of the many rather than the few. But the danger is that in bringing the sport to the many that 'the many' realise how Mickey Mouse it really is and how stupid those that profess to run it really are. That is the challenge for the promoters. Improve the sport, cut the cost but enhance the experience and stop looking like the bunch of greedy, spiteful, incompetent fools you really are. More for less may sound frightening to such a motley crew but it may well save your worthless arces if you manage to pull it off. But of course we all know what will happen as we have all seen these pointless p#ss ups come and go. Reduction in points and increase in prices blah blah bloody blah.

I like this yellow line idea. Sounds rather progressive and gives me hope that this years booze up will actually produce something worthwhile.

Fair point but it's never really THAT simple is it and what is ever 100% true. Even the fact that the speed of light is a constant is not exactly true We are speedway fans here and we all know that good racing comes from 4 guys who can ride a bike at the same level and have similar equipment. Darcy is a great rider but having him in a race with three guys who can't live with him after the first bend does not mean good racing. Track surface and riders who can compete with each other means good racing. I have never seen NL racing but have seen plenty of junior stuff and it never really compared to the old NNL racing I used to enjoy. But to be fair to the point you made there were differences in standard there as well. The answer is never gonna be easy to find but it's a sad indictment when the people we need to be looking for it don't really seem to be capable.

Yes having the ability to know just when to put in the bloke for the double tac ride is essential. Most of us here I bet used to fill in the names in our programmes well before the announcer told us who was going to be used as a tac sub For England NOT having a team manager would probably be an advantage. Let's face it guys more people speak Babylonian than whatever the hell language Havvy speaks so imagine an argument between him and Chris Harris being commentated on by Sudden Sam.

The quality of the league is best improved by having a decent racing surface and two teams that are comparable and competitive. Top riders, engine tuners and a vanload of fancy equipment don't do a thing for the quality of racing unless everybody has them. There is no quality on show when one team has 5 heat leaders and the other has one if they are lucky. The basic idea of speedway is sound. The best way to improve the sport is regression. The star rider idea has been an abject failure here in the UK.

The riders will be right to boycott the SGP as it will treach them a valuable lesson. When in a hole a JCB is not necessarily the best option for getting out of it. Will be funny listening to poor old Nige having to explain all this away with a GP containing PL 2nd strings.

Sadly it is not a team manager England need but an actual team for him (or her) to be able to manage.

There is more chance of I'm A Celebrity's in Pyongyang than that Phil. Mayhap it will happen mayhap it won't happen but as this has been going on since what 2010 I am long past caring to be honest I had forgotten about you you pathetic little troll. I don't know you from Adam and you don't know me but still you make assumptions based on some silly message forum.

The Y/B helmet colour worked fine and should be reintroduced. Speedway lost it's way once they flirted with yellow and then Green helmet covers. There would be no problem differentiating between the B/W helmet and the Y/B as there is a marked difference between the colours yellow and white and anyone who can't see that should probably not concentrate on the helmet colours as blue and red can be frustrating at speed as well. Perhaps we should experiment with displaying some kind of number and maybe even a name on race suits and perhaps some kind of team symbol rather than trying to cram every minor sponsor who has paid more than a fiver onto them.

definitely sarcasm. There is as much chance of this happening as there is of I'm A Celebrity's next series being held just outside of Pyongyang.

The Grand Opening next March/April will be huge for the sport. It must be well on it's way to completion by now and Belle Vue will be all ready to move into it's state of the art facilities.

To a degree you are right and it would be good if Matt Ford and his fellow promoters could work together for the good of all rather than just thier own selfish interests. But in many ways Matt is also bad for the sport as well. We had Ian Thomas as the bogeyman in my younger days and now Matt has that mantle. He is indeed a good promoter for his teams the same way Thomas was for his but sadly they are not all as clever as those guys and some need a helping hand but the sport would rather point score off each other than work as a unit to build something better..

I did not say any of that mate, you did, I simply asked why the 2nd tier should let itself be absorbed by the top tier as people seem to assume will rescue the EL. The top tier got itself into a mess let the top tier get itself out of it. Speedway clubs wither and die all the time. Will the EL care if Glasgow or the IOW go out of business? I did not say any of that either once again you said that not me. I was talking about the EL as that's what the thread is about. The PL has a lot of problems but is not the mess the EL is. I have been saying speedway needs to work together on this forum for years now. But it only seems to happen when the top flight gets itself in a mess.

Why should the PL suffer for the failures of the EL. They got themselves into this mess let them sort it out themselves and not involve the bit of UK speedway that seems to be able to run a tap. The PL has enough problems of it's own without being burdened by the EL's ineptitude. Why is it everytime the top league fails it is the second tier that has to pull them out of the mire they infliicted on themselves.

I was not trying to say we are not training riders simply that other countries seem to produce an endless stream of riders with ability and we don't so therefore we are obviously doing things the wrong way. I have no idea what Poland does to bring on talent as I don't run a speedway club or am a member of the BSPA. But it seems sensible to find out what they do to bring on talent and then copy it here as it obviously works. Our haphazard methods which you highlight in your post are not working very well as there are no riders in the NL that would challenge for a post in the Polish league or Swedish league but they have riders of the calibre of Przedpelski (who came from nowhere this year) who would find a way into our EL if he so chose to seek one. We need to find riders to fill the PL rosters first (and then work thier way up to the EL) but even they are few and far between. I think it says a lot when the kid regarded as the best prospect we have chose Germany to learn his trade.