mikebv

Never really understood the point of season tickets.. Your most loyal fans will attend anyway so you might as well charge them full price.. And running an ST means you restrict your opportunities of doing 'special offers' through the season as this will reduce the ST 'value'... Maybe let those that way inclined pay up front for the season the same cost as attending each meeting individually, but give them a free programme or free car parking (for those who charge for parking your car) That would be worth around £50 I would imagine over the season, and it would then let the club do some 'specials'... Instead of an ST I often think there would be more mileage in rewarding 'loyalty' several times during the season... eg attend five meetings and get the sixth half price, you could put a token in the programme which means a programme needs to also be bought, and anyone with the five tokens can then claim their next ticket HP, (with a HP programme thrown in)... Many moons ago Man United used to do a token sheet via the programmes which actually helped them sell thousands of programmes, as even if you didn't attend you got your mate who did to buy you one. These tokens qualified you to try and get 'big game' tickets when they were an all ticket affair.. Speedway could go down this route and take the increased programme sales, or simply mark any tokens as 'declined' in programmes over and above the one purchased by an any individual... It seems barmy restricting a whole seasons long marketing capability to tens/hundreds of thousands of locals by flogging, at best I would say at most places, a couple of hundred season tickets... Especially in a sport so desperate for increased footfall..

Had a bad day acef? To be fair cannot argue with the sentiments of your last three posts.... The racing standard nowadays is largely irrelevant to the level of crowds watching in so much that the only people who can see any decline (if there actually is any) are those who go regularly... And as they are very much the diehards of the sport, who still attend regardless of what is put in front of them, they are obviously content with what they see.... I would suggest anyone new to the sport would still be initially 'wowed' by the sport at any track with any standard of racing.. It would only be over a matter of time that they could then become opinionated as to whether the racing was as good as they first went or not and decide to continue paying to watch... The initial 'wow factor' is there at every track, the bigger problem is that not enough of the local conurbations know about the sport to attend, or plenty of them have tried the sport regularly previously, and given it up due to its Mickey Mouse operating model.. The NSS delivers racing far superior to most and infinitely more so than the 'dog bowl' ever did.. So why isn't it full every week? 2.5 Million people live in Grt Manchester, all within 45 mins drive from the NSS. Which is 5 mins out of Mcr City Centre for those who use public transport.. I would suggest 2.4 Million of them have no clue (or at best very little clue) who the Belle Vue Aces are, or indeed, what Speedway is.. Thats the biggest problem the Aces have.. And that situation is I would say replicated around the country.. The standard of racing is irrelevant if hardly anyone knows it's happening in the first place..

Not sure why this is being done to be honest... There must be (at least) around a 50% drop in attendances over the past 10 years, and much more than that in the last twenty.. Therefore, talking to people who still go (the huge minority in the country) won't for me give any solutions to any issues.. I personally don't attend (British domestic Speedway) anymore due to the constant Mickey Mouse contrived nonsense put out in front of me, however those who still go obviously are happy to collude with Promoters that it's a bona fide professional sporting competition, and fair play to them for their stance.. Therefore, by their very attendance, they must be reasonably content with what is being offered. And by their very belonging to a Supporters Club in the first place, it also suggests this.. What the BSPA need to do is their spend time engaging with the 99.95%of the population who don't attend a Speedway meeting each week rather than the 0.05% who do... A failing business would be far better off speaking with those who used to use you, or have never heard of you, rather than those who have remained loyal, even more so when that business has haemorrhaged so many customers in the past couple of decades in particular.. Several other Sports run similar meetings to see if it can any add value to, and enhance, an already strong operating and business model... Speedway sadly doesn't possess such a thing, so not sure that even the best ideas will do much more than cover the gaping wounds with a sticking plaster in all honesty..

Maybe given the demographic of its fan base, the sport would be better off letting fans train their own pigeon to take their selection up to the referees box attached to their pigeon's feet? Maybe there could then be a prize of two tickets to the next Cup match to the owner of the pigeon that has come from furthest away?... Think of the excitement it would generate... Maybe one of those representing the supporters clubs at that BSPA think tank thing could suggest it? Obviously it won't be completely straight forward, as if your pigeon is injured and cannot fly on any given night, something like a wing injury or damaged shank, or your pigeon is already competing in a race over mainland Europe on the same night. Then there would need to be some kind of 'guest pigeon' system required to ensure everyone has a chance... Based on speed, colour and weight of the pigeons, and their previous performances I would personally suggest.... However I am sure a workable solution could be found... No ideas a bad idea etc etc etc..

Three Comps all ending within a fortnight of each other is crackers.... Spread them out over the season... Workington should have had several weeks of locally building up the hype of their potential double then subsequent treble.. Not to mention time to celebrate (and make the most publicity wise) of their first trophy won.. Expecting fans to attend every few days, like they had to, will inevitably also effect attendances negatively due to the cost... Spreading out the trophies will also potentially help teams that might start the season well and then get injuries.. Speedway should do as much as it can to keep itself in the public eye so spread out the Finals...

Is that February this year?

Paying out £20 grand for 14 riders per meeting in Premiership, cups and play offs, (over 90 or so meetings in total), would be £1.8M alone without the Championship costs.. Or have the days of £10k per team per night now gone?

Hype! Hype! Hype! You cannot sell the Sport to people who have never seen it nor are even aware of it... However. Advertising ten meetings locally, with a £200k prize fund, would trigger some interest from those who are blissfully unaware of Speedway I would suggest.. Its got to be 'in your face' these days to get your message out... And Speedway spends literally millions to remain 'small time' and unheard of... It needs to get its message out to the wider sporting public so they know exactly just how much is on offer...

All tracks pay their seven riders a fiver less each race..? (£300 a meeting). That would put a few grand a week in to get someone 'decent' across the Leagues.. BV used to pay (if 'informed' rumours were true) circa £3k a night for Matej Zagar... £6k a week if home and away... Since he left I haven't seen a mass exodus of fans so he didnt bring in anybody extra.. Yet giving £6k a week to a good marketing company would have I reckon.. Speedway spends millions each season on riders who deliver very few extra bums on seats, using an operating model ran by people with a vested interest, which actually dissuades people from attending... It needs to invest its millions far more wisely to get a better return..

Good call... I've said before, Speedway must pay out Millions to riders yet gets zero publicity to that effect..... The average Premiership club must pay a minimum £20k to riders for both meetings they have to pay out from their home match.. Thats on crowds of circa 1200-1500... Maybe advertise that £20k as prize money for an individual event with proper advertising and more than 1500 will attend? Throw in any current team sponsorship into the prize money to increase the prize fund.. Give all 16 riders an average of £1250 each and maybe they could be charged £250 to enter with the four finalists getting the £4K collected on a decreasing scale from the winner to fourth.. If you can generate a 3k crowd then double the prize fund which can only grow further interest.. Bottom line is. It cannot deliver a credible team sport currently so why bother keep flogging that dying horse? Maybe different promoters could also use the same track? Newcomers to Speedway doing one off meetings with fresh ideas? Less meetings maybe, but well marketed and credible, would be much more beneficial than what we have at present.. The racing can be great to watch, as good as in any era, so sell that...

As has been said countless times by riders, the practice sessions seldom reflect track conditions in the GP itself.. And flying out the night before is quite normal for riders.. As for injuries, riders ride now the next day with lots of minor issues and only serious injuries mean their absence (concussion, broken limbs etc) and getting them the night before or the week before would mean they still miss the GP.. I am sure common sense will prevail with regards to fixture planning, especially given the huge potential for Polish clubs to get even bigger crowds swelled by 1000's of overseas visitors flying in for the GP... Conspiracy theory Alert! Should this be Poland's backers' 'back door' way of trying to take more control of the GP's by holding riders to ransom (so they have to make a choice), it will at least mean BSI have to stay on their toes and up their game with regards to the rewards riders get for competing... Which is currently quite poor when you measure it against Poland's salaries.. I would suspect most riders would take the Polish meetings regardless of whether this would impact their GP place or not, given the financial rewards both currently bring. Especially now with the increased TV exposure for their sponsors... Being able to tell every one of your sponsors that their name will be on live TV every week must be a huge positive for both riders and the clubs themselves.. Time for BSI maybe to make their GP series 'unmissable'?

Pretty sure I watched BV race on a Friday night before the Bradford GP in 1990.. It was planned in that way to attract the foreign visitors over for the GP.. So nothing 'new' about this if it happens.. I suspect the Polish GP's will be similarly targeted to attract the overseas fans and boost the attendance of the League match.. The splitting of the TV contract will I am sure benefit the League, and therefore the riders, enormously, as more money comes into the Sport in Poland.. More chance for the riders to get themselves known to a wider sporting audience as every rider will be on TV every week.. We shouldn't knock Poland's 'power to do what they want' as their professional business and operating models give them that deserved status..

I think with the way riders ride all over Europe, and domestically for several teams in different leagues, the process they follow is this.... 1. The Premiership build their fixtures based on the rest of Europe's fixtures.. 2. As soon as this is confirmed the Championship build their fixtures based on when their DU riders are not riding in the Premiership... 3. The NL then build their fixtures based on what dates are left....... But for all the fixtures after April I am not sure what system they use!.... Rock, Paper, Scissors would work..

That they are all still there at the start of the season and don't get suddenly removed from their positions?

Standardisation of bikes looks like it won't happen however... Maybe a two bike maximum should be authorised? Box standard bikes purchased by the club, the make and model being the riders choice? Would £10k set aside for two bikes and running costs be enough? No tuning allowed, only servicing which gets done once a season.. No special clutches 'that Tai uses' or carbs 'that Greg swears by', allowed to be fitted. All as arrives on the bike... Riders then pay back the £10k during the season with money earned.. If they want to use a bike for their individual exploits, or overseas team places, then they need to buy their own bikes and can do what they want to them. But the club bike stays in the UK intact.. In this digital age it wouldn't be hard to police the bikes as all key parts could be logged centrally with serial numbers so scrutinisers could ensure no tampering had taken place.. Photos could be taken to ensure all correct v the central database.. Riders may pay out tens of thousands now but don't forget this is their business so they do need to speculate to accumulate like all businesses do, however the big rewards generally don't come till a business is established over years so 'losing money' in the first few years isn't a uncommon situation, especially as you build your assets base.. Bottom line is if a PL reserve/NL heat leader pays out £30k a year (and no doubt more for some), you cannot expect British Speedway to afford to pay the money needed to make a profit for the rider on the crowd levels it gets... 60 meetings at an average of £1000 a night with £10k costs would net a £50000 profit... Not bad for six months work I would say...

But to be fair they have had lots of experience of using this business model over the years... It must be 'very successful' to keep using it all the time mustn't it?..

Maybe that's whats behind the 'BSPA Ltd' plan mentioned at the AGM? ie 'own' every rider..? Then do what's needed to spread them about around the teams to try and make it competitive? Efffectively rider control but without the name, (and stigma)..? And all teams under one central commander controlling budgets and spending to ensure continuation of the sport?

Put the words 'slag' or 'zuzel' in there and you would have had the Google translation as reported in Poland...

4TT's for me used to give the best racing as all four riders were of a reasonable similar level.. (and no guests!) Four lads earning an average each of £1000 a meeting (£250 a ride) would need £16000 to be taken at home, after VAT, to pay for the four meetings.. (£19200 gross). At £16 a ticket (one pound per race) a crowd of 1200 per match would cover the rider costs.. 1500 would deliver £24000, surely possible with four decent teams in attendance per night with four sets of fans to possibly attract.? Maybe there could even be one BIG 16 team 'weekender' ran at one venue during a School Summer Hols weekend, a two days 'Festival Of Speedway'!! British Speedway would benefit far more from a lesser number of BIG, BOLD, WELL PROMOTED events that have credibility at individual and multi team level, taking place at defined weekends, rather than lots of meetings ran through the week on ad hoc weeks, with just two teams, no away fans, contrived septets etc etc.. The racing is often very, very good... It's just the rest of the 'brand damaging' nonsense around it that holds it back...

The plan they follow is astoundingly unfit for purpose. In fact it is so far away from being suitable it is truly laughable to think sane men and women sign it off every year.. Promoters spend hours contriving meetings, cobbled together with random septets that some cannot afford, sharing riders together, and all to win a competition which, by their very own operating model, is rendered completely worthless... They collectively must spend literally Millions of pounds each year, all trying to win a competition that they 100% completely devalue by the very way that they run it.... You seriously couldn't make it up could you? Lets be honest, who cares who wins a Speedway prize in the UK? It has zero kudos. So therefore how do you ever hope to attract a crowd to engage with it? You then compound the issue by putting together 'teams' of random riders who may be available to ride for you if they haven't got another better paying job on, or are already double booked elsewhere, and expect fans to become emotionally attached to that club. (Like a team sport should get you involved).. The riders they sign are then expected to have the best equipment at their disposal to 'win' some silverware. The best equipment that costs them a ridiculous amount each year. And all to keep up with other riders who are doing exactly the same.. The riders then (quite understandably) wants recompense for their increased annual outlay. Outlay that actually achieves nothing more than allowing them to 'run to stand still' against their peers. Peers who will be paying out the same, to the same people, using the same top equipment, and getting it expensively tuned by the same tuners.. The Promoters therefore then pay out those Millions of pounds to the riders in the vain hope that they can win something hardly anyone cares about, as 99.9% of the population of this country don't attend a single Speedway meeting (and a big percentage won't even know it exists).. Just to add further 'magic' to the cunning plan, meetings are often arranged around their riders agenda rather than when the fans can attend, leaving meetings crammed in in the dark days of winter after having months of summer devoid of Speedway.. You can then add on an admission fee that is set at the level it is to desperately offset the huge outlay that they choose to pay out, rather than a reflection of the quality of what they are actually selling.. All of the above plan has no place or investment for a national marketing plan it should be noted... Millions paid to riders that the vast majority of the UK have never heard of. In a sport that most people have never heard of. Yet hardly anything spent on marketing.. You spend Millions on the sport yet (astonishingly), run it this way? A truly quite incredible situation and concept isn't it? It should go amateur? Could that be regarded as a step up in certain areas?

It says so much how sponsorship often covers some/most of the costs that keeps the clubs going... With many of the sponsors being fans rather than business people, who see their input as giving them a close connection to 'their team' (and maybe an ego boost or a tax saving?), rather than a way of selling more product to the 500 or so in attendance... Such a system though is built on quick sand as you are dependant so much on other businesses remaining in a position to help 'bank roll' your own... It sometimes seems to appear that terms to riders are agreed first, then promoters set about frantically finding a way to afford them.... 1000 fans paying £15 after VAT would generate £12k.. Maybe set aside £9k of that to pay riders for the home and away meetings, and stick to that as a salary cap, and use the £3k left to pay the home meeting costs..? Build the overall team strengths, and how many riders per team, using the £9k as a template.... Any sponsorship then is over and above this and can be used to help pay any costs over the £3k, or maybe used as a bonus to the riders for success? A five man team sharing £9k would each average £1800 for two matches, (some would obviously earn more depending on their level, and some would earn less)... Maybe not what currently they earn, or indeed expect, however.. If the Sport keeps going on in its current downwards spiral, maybe one day (and pretty soon), riders will wish they still had a chance to earn £1800 a week..

But the crowd numbers and income generated IS comparable Philip.. My local team Stockport County ply their trade in 'Division Six' and get crowds regularly of 3300 plus.. Their highest earning player is on less than £500 per match... BV have attendances approx one third of that and I would wager all seven riders get paid more than £500, with possibly several up to four or five times as much.. Speedway can't afford its business plan and the operating model it is based on... So needs to change and start doing so...

The issue has been the reduction in quality has not coincided with a reduction in admission costs! Nor I would suggest an overall reduction in salaries, as lowering averages just creates those 'key riders' who can increase their average more in a watered down league, and ask for big money to do it.. As has been said, top riders like Crump, Pedersen, Adams etc all were at the top of their game whilst crowds dwindled around them.. The Sport needs to 'start again', decide what it wants to be and implement it..

And with standardised engines you could run a one make series.. Giving economy to scale purchasing power.. And tender out the upkeep and maintenance contract too. One fee paid out to one business to maintain the engines.. And if they don't cut the mustard they are replaced.. Or if they do a good job and someone equally as good can do it for less, the costs are cut even more.. It would be interesting to know how much British League racing money subsidises the individual aspirations of some of the competitors.. Or even subsidises their racing overseas... Maybe a one make series, with riders salaried, and bikes owned and maintained by teams (or centrally by the collective BSPA) is the way forward? Cutting standards is mentioned as being a reason for decline.. 99.9% of the population don't attend Speedway, with a large amount of that huge number having a Speedway track within an hours drive.. These people simply have no idea what 'the current standard' is, nor could probably name the current British World Champion therefore they wouldn't 'miss' the standard as it currently is.. These are the people that need to be attracted to the Sport and the size of their number offers a huge prize, and if only a couple of percent can be enticed to start watching the Sport it would increase crowds several fold.... The 'model' used for the past 20 years or so simply doesn't work.. So stop using it..

Philip, I don't think anyone can accuse riders of being the main issue.. Let's face it, their costs mean they need to race anywhere and everywhere they can.. The issue lies with the fact the clubs end up paying the riders what they want because there is too little supply and too much demand, and riders need the money to pay for their too high outgoings.. The top league should be the top league with professionals.. The middle league should be semi pro with riders aspiring to get onto the top rung or are happy to supplement another jobs earnings.. If you need a third league it should be pretty much 'pay to play' or at best expenses only and the track time develops you to aspire to a higher level.. If you analyse the issue facing British Speedway it is very much down to riders paying out fortunes to pay for machinery and maintenance, which means clubs pay out more than they can afford and meetings can take place at anytime (whether fans like it or not) to ensure the rider is there. Riders are then allowed to race in several domestic leagues to prop up their income. (and no doubt also boost the ego of a few promoters in the lower leagues), which delivers a lack of credibility in the Leagues. The bottom line is (regardless of genuine reasons), riders earn too much for a sport that attracts too few punters in the UK.. And they do this because they pay out far too much for the tools to do their job.. Sort that equation out and the sport over here may have a chance.. Don't sort it and more clubs will disappear as it is abundantly clear that not enough people are willing to part with their cash in enough numbers to justify the current outlay in salaries.. The Promoters have had their heads in the sand for far too long, often individually taking a "well I'm alright Jack" stance rather than working collaboratively to move the whole 'brand' forwards... How many more clubs will disappear before they face reality, join together collectively and build a proper fit for purpose operating model... Who knows? Do that and you might attract one or two percent more of the current 99.9% of the population who don't currently attend...!