mikebv

I believe that at least 12 promoters cannot make those dates so the BSPA have drafted some guest promoters in for 10 of them and 'Promoter replacement' is being used for the other two.....

Or teams go to six men a side and omit the big names, ?? for what some GP's No1's get in salary you could pay three 'good riders', (or half a six man team)...

I can watch a football match between two teams I don't care about in the hope I may get some satisfaction/excitement generated by great goals or bits of skill from one or two players.. The same can be said for my cricket, rugby, baseball, American football etc watching The difference though, watching these professional sports, is that I don't need to 'put their problems aside' when watching them as they don't have the glaring 'self inflicted ailments' speedway has. (and surely any sport that needs paying spectators to make 'allowances' for what they are watching is, by definition, on a pretty downward spiral?).. With speedway, many fans seem to want 'Utopia' ie a winning team and great entertainment, which isn't ever going to be achieved, however what can be achieved is four riders in each race, racing for 'their' clubs only, of commensurate ability, in a competition that has 'integrity' as its fundamental foundation.. I still watch the EL on TV similar to how I watch the sports mentioned above, and make a point of watching the GP's in particular as they often provide great entertainment, however... In any team sport (let alone one that is allegedly professional) there has to be 'integrity' of both competition rules and regulations, and participants eligibility.. Speedway has no 'integrity' of either hence so many no longer pay good money to attend.... You may be happy to 'forget those problems' and enjoy just watching four lads compete in each race you see(?) However, thousands of fans, who have simply 'voted with their feet' over the past decade or so, would appear to want some 'integrity' with their racing... One thing is for sure, 'if' the sport does eventually 'die', it wont be the fault of those who decided to leave it behind and stopped paying their money to attend 'live' because they got disillusioned with it... Because quite simply if you 'go to the wall' failing to provide what your customers wanted, particularly when you have had so much direct and databased feedback from them, then you clearly have no one to blame but yourself....

buxton.....

not read the whole thread so it may already be covered but.... with melbourne now being the final gp and the possibility of the gp winner being virtually known before the meeting (similar to this year), will bsi do a 'double points' final round like F1 are doing?.. If its a foregone conclusion who has won, it will I am sure adversely effect the crowd so anything which prevents this will I would have thought be considered. ?.

really?? a business can get too much free of charge, unsolicited, databased information to improve its performance and you think its a bad thing? it should be manna from heaven... if they so wanted, any promoter spending say just an hour on here would see more than enough clear common threads running through it to guide them in sorting out 'the key issues' which have driven so many fans away... alternatively, they could simply cut through all this crap on here and do some professional market research as to what the fans really want...? neither I would suggest will happen..

no need, so many of the reasons why so many people no longer attend in the numbers required to make speedway viable at so many tracks are there for all to see having been well documented on here, the speedway star, and virtually every unofficial website which covers individual tracks over the past decade or so... those that run the sport have decided (as is their wish) to ignore the feedback they have been given from paying (or should that be no longer paying) customers and are now reaping their rewards for their 'we know best/you take it or leave it' attitude,,, I suppose I could 'enlighten them' by saying that 'when running a business, listen to your customer's feedback to help you grow' but I would suggest any business man or woman who needs someone to tell them that, shouldn't probably be someone running a business in the first place..

Yet another track biting the dust.... Can't understand it personally. ? Especially given the way that the promoters of the sport do such a great job in running it..

3 guests and rr for one team? 1 guest and rr for the other? the PL is becoming the same sad joke as the EL.... did a farce like this generate a decent crowd?

Lots of sports use 'seedings' to try and set up the 'perfect final' therefore speedway should look at doing the same...

FFS!!! Now we finally see progress and all of a sudden the soddin name becomes an issue to some!!! It will be the largest purpose built speedway stadium in the country therefore calling it a 'National' stadium is both apposite and gives the sport a definitive arena with which to promote itself to the outside world.... For me, well done to the managment of the aces, truly a heroic effort to get where we are, however as many have said, no point having a nice new stadium to stand or sit in which showpieces the sport wonderfully and then see Wolves turn up to race with five guests.....

Why when there is no 'TV pressure' (unlike in the EL) does the PL have to put the cut off so early? Seems barmy..... But then again, what's one more barmy decision. ?...

F1 tnis year are having a 'double points' race at the final GP, presumably to contrive the fact that the title can still be won on the day.. You can lose at both cricket and rugby yet get 'bonus points' for doing so... Football teams in European competition can draw over the two legs of the tie and win! And horse racing deliberately contrives results by making some horses run with more weight on their backs to slow them down All 'credible' sports I would say yet with rules that do appear strange..

Some suggestions for next year? Try and avoid running meetings during the summer school holidays, much better to leave these weeks blank and then try and cram in loads of outstanding fixtures into the colder, darker nights when the kids have gone back to school. Make sure your number of meetings ran by the end of august results in loads of double headers being required to complete the league before cut off dates. Ideally these double headers will be advertised as starting a half hour earlier than a normal meeting, but will only start in reality about ten minutes before the usual single meeting start time. This should result in both meetings not being finished but at least ten races completed in each will provide a result (and save ten races worth of points money). Team strengths next year shouldnt be used, simply clubs should put together ' select' teams on a week by week basis using up to five guests, one rider of their own and rider replacement. Riders should be allowed to pick and choose their meetings and then get paid ridiculous unsustainable salaries when they do deign to honour us with their presence. Finally admission charge increase should be inflation busting and programme cover prices should have no correlation with what the true value of the programme actually cost to make... There, some mighty fine original ideas I would suggest, however I am sure some may say 'way too far fetched' and 'would never be implemented'? Well we will see....

I understood everything he thought!!!!!

The danger is many fans will see the new stadium as the 'saviour of speedway'.... The truth is the addition of a new speedway stadium to speedway in its current guise, is akin to putting a pair of 44dd implants in a lady's chest when she is in the operating theatre to have a heart transplant Cosmetically it will all look great, but without the serious surgery required to fix the patients real problems, it could sadly and ultimately prove to be nothing more than a well intentioned expensive futile exercise....

No point blaming any one person for british speedway's current farcical situation.. When you get promoters ringing you up saying 'if I cannot use rider x tonight I will close my track' what can you do?? I remember a couple of years ago one of the management committee said he left the MC due to the flack and pressure he got from fellow promoters basically holding the sport to ransom to get what they wanted.. The other nights farce with Cov trying to use an illegible rider could have had MC approval as it has been documented before that promoters often phone one MC member after another with the same request until they get a 'Yes'.... The sports decline has been inevitable over the past ten years or so due to a complete lack of independent leadership and an absence of a clear vision for the sports future development and growth... That is not the sole fault of the current incumbent head of the bspa.. He has just been incapable of turning round the fcuked oil tanker of a sport that is british speedway... As many before him have also abysmally failed to do...

Chris Holder i think it was who a couple of years ago was quoted as saying he earned TEN times the money in Poland that he did over here and I think FOUR times the money in Sweden... Now being an aussie and based over here, you could never accuse him (or any of the aussies) of not supporting british speedway. however if the same deals apply across the rest of the riders (or even if it is just say FIVE/TWO times the difference respectively) you cannot be surprised if 'overseas' riders protect their number one income, it is perfectly natural that they would do it.. Therefore keep employing these people, keep having a laughing stock of a competition.... Big radical decisions are needed.... But, does anybody on here really believe those who 'run' the sport have the vision, capability, innovation and inspiration needed to make them?

If you get 1000 punters paying 16 to 17 quid you will, after vat, come out with about 13 to 14k with which to pay out all your meeting fixed costs and two meetings worth of riders costs... Say fixed costs are 3k a night for track hire, ref , medical cover etc etc etc and you will have apppox 10k to pay the riders for two meetings or 5k a night.. There will be some sponsor money to add, and some tracks own their own stadia so pay no rentt and get the food and drink take, but they are in the minority.. For most tracks I would suggest this 5k a night is there or thereabouts therefore all teams should be made to spend no more than that if that is all they can afford... I would suggest a good many pay more than this and a good many get a good few less than a 1000 punters a night!!! Total madness paying 2 - 3k a night for a 'superstar' on those figures, even more lunacy if your attendance is below a 1000!

It always does amaze me how the promoters run the sport without ever gaining any solicited feedback from their current customer base as to what they like/dislike.. A forum that exists such as this giving unsolicited feedback about their business (often from people who no longer frequent their business) should be used as a major part of any operational improvement plan.. Market Research incredibly is virtually non existent at all tracks, yet we live in an age where instant feedback is just a press of a button away.. For the elite league (or any league) to move forwards surely seeking the views of those who attend/used to attend would be an obvious thing to do? eg GP riders yes or no? Guest riders yes or no? Tactical Rides yes or no? Doubling up, yes or no? What is a value for money admission fee? etc etc etc... Anything that dissuades people from attending your business should be focused on, discussed, root caused, fixed, and not allowed to constantly impact the business negatively.. Standard business practice in the 'wider world' yet not followed in the 'speedway world' by people who often run businesses in the 'wider world'...? For the elite league to survive I feel the promoters have to first and foremost be honest and the first thing they should do is plan rules that set up teams that are affordable. If that means no 'superstars', six man teams, more british based riders etc then so be it.. As an 'entity' the BSPA have to start working as a collective rather than a bunch of individuals who nod to each other and agree the next (to many) nonsensical rule, whilst already working out how they can work round it to their advantage... One thing is for sure, riders missing due to GP/Euro commitments, dodgy illnesses, tired bodies, riding for one of their other GB team(s), or riding for their overseas team do nothing positive to bring supporters into the stadiums and can only have a negative effect... Add in the constant stories of dodgy average manipulation, poor racing surfaces, laughable presentation standards etc etc etc, and it is easy to see how and why to many the sport in its current guise is dying an irrevocable 'death by 1000 self inflicted cuts'... Maybe this years conference hotel will have very strong coffee available and finally it will be smelt!!!

Do what the poles and swedes do? 'Ah but it costs too much'...... Then always have a mickey mouse competition or just stick to challenge matches where you can put together select teams weekly, as we do now... Oh hang on, if we did that people would stop attending such contrived nonsense wouldn't they? Wait a minute..... Doh!!!!!

Yes, but the caveat to that is you would want to be watching two teams using their own riders... Otherwise the integrity of the competition you are watching is such bollox that you may as well just run challenge matches... Many on here say they are happy as long as it is seven riders v seven riders and they are entitled to that view, however quite simply no professional sport can run itself on speedways rules and then wonder why it isnt taken seriously by both the wider media and an ever dwindling fan base....

The future of the elite leagues is safe if monday night is anything to go by.... Daniel Halsey and Adam Ellis are going to ride against Belle Vue both for their own clubs and their play off rivals on the same evening.. Thus effectively either scoring enough points to help prevent themselves reaching the play offs or not scoring enough points which will possibly leave them open to accusations of not trying hard enough to help prevent themselves reaching the play offs...... All to win a competition that by definition of allowing such rules to exist renders it total mickey mouse bollox with zero credibility anyway.... All this is available for just 25 of your English pounds..... Get there early and form an orderly queue!!!!!!!

what allegedly zagar gets at bv needs (after vat) approx 200 fans' worth of admission money (with prog bought)... bv get, and have got for probably the past five or so years, an average gate of between 800 - 1000 tops.. this attendance is made up, as many are now across the country, by the 'die hards'.. therefore there is no way if zagar left then bv would lose 200 fans from their current attendance level, and no way his inclusion has put 200 on the gate to make his salary self financing.... I would also suggest most teams with an 'out and out No1' could also lose that salary of their payroll without unduly damaging the crowd levels.... long gone are the days of 'top riders' putting an extra 500-1000 or so on the gate therefore you do have to question their value for money at current salary levels...

yes you are right.... coz that 2k will make all the difference to their solvency won't it?? I would suggest the 100k+ that many currently pay to (mainly) overseas number ones may be a tad bigger threat to their business profitability..? however if 2k is too much then as has been suggested, sponsors may be a source of revenue,?? one thing is for sure though, doing nothing, as has been proved, is certainly not an option anymore....