mikebv

And the biggest talking point of many meetings on here is "who has best manipulated/ignored the rules?"..😁 Doesn't say too much about what's on offer on track does it?😕

The flip side is how much clubs lose leading up to the play offs... The Aces will get around 2300 I reckon for the Semi but have ran in front of 800 or so in the meetings leading up to cram in the required meetings.. Is that one gate of 2300 better than 4 of 5 meetings of reduced attendances due to fitting meetings in and not having much to race for as already qualified..? The 3000 plus final crowd is I would suggest the deal breaker rather than the semi... But obviously, only of any use if you get there... For me Paulco's idea from Ice Hockey re have a full season and then all in a quick cup Comp sounds the right mix... A 'Magic Weekend' for Speedway at the NSS.. Late August Bank Holiday Weekend.. Cut off date agreed to decide the draw based on League position, first play eighth, second versus seventh etc. etc. . Friday night double header starting at 7pm for the first two quaters finals. . Saturday night double header at 7pm for the other two quarters.. Sunday night double header starting at 5pm for the semis.. BHM 5pm start time for the Final... Sell a Weekend ticket for £80, £20 for kids, and an adult and kid gets to see seven meetings at not much over £15 a match.. Surely would sell 2500 adult tickets that way if properly marketed the 12 months prior..? If so, £200k without the kids income... Deals with hotels, sponsors and TV coverage sorted too to make the event "Big Time" School hols still then too.. Carry on with the league after the 'Magic Weekend' with no having to cram meetings in making the fixture list more consistent and Speedway running to October...

Must save quite a few quid on tyres this track as they don't seem to be in contact with the surface much do they?..😂 Great decision by the ref there too...😁😲😁

"You do have people that stay away when you're not winning and it is not helpful in the slightest".. This is a direct quote from the Workington Promoter lifted from this week's excellent Speedway Star... May I respectfully point out that the way the Sport is ran is definitely also not "helpful in the slightest" if Promoters want to get (and keep) crowds attending their tracks... Fans will actually put up with a losing team far longer if they can at least associate themselves with 'their' riders... However, following a losing team made up of 'guests', 'guests' and more 'guests' every week and/or seeing your team getting beat by teams turning up with track specialist 'guests' every week will test the resolve of even the most die hard follower... Any Promoter currently complaining about numbers coming through the turnstiles when they all have delivered collectively the shambles that currently exists won't, I would imagine, have much sympathy from the Sport's followers... No Chris Harris at Peterborough because he was taking part in a seperate Sport, and FIVE guests riding for 'One Man Cradley' are just today's examples of 'planned in complete nonsense' that Promoters still expect people to attend, and pay good money to them for the privilege of doing so.. When such ridiculous goings on are fully endorsed as part of the Sports Operating Model and allowed to happen, public appeals to the Speedway fan base to keep loyally watching must be a very hard sell...

He will face a 28 day ban and serve it in December....😂

The same Promoters who agree to the team strengths at the start of the season. Then their teams start getting beat heavily so crowds drop meaning they have to bring in different riders who knowing the crap the Promoters are in name their price as demand massively exceeds supply... Making the signing of a 'Top Rider' so vitally important to success via the use of averages means they will always have the upper hand in negotiations... When a rider can deliver between 12 and 15 nightly to your score when you need 46 to win they can pretty much name what they want... Almost 33% of a succesful teams score delivered by one man... Maybe making them less of a 'must have' will reduce salaries?

Always wondered why when a track is wet and the meeting goes ahead (just), why don't they have the riders just blasting round to turn the dirt over an hour or so before the meeting, (maybe even have locals on standby so no one gets an advantage).. 4 riders doing 40 laps would replicate ten heats.. Every time I see a meeting like this the racing improves as it slickens off and the thick dirt/mud/slime gets moved out.. It just happens too late to make the meeting entertaining..

I am sure you would know more than me JTS.. I am sure also though that there was a minimum sum published at the time as to what these lads could expect to earn.. Maybe my number is wrong but I do remember thinking when I saw the press release that the number published was considerably more than the £10 a point (allegedly) the same lads got in the NL.. ! I seem to think it was announced in part to answer back critics of the scheme who suggested it was nothing more than a money saving plan.. As I say mate.. You live 'the dream' so you will know more than me..

Four or five years ago a rider I know of guested for a then Elite League team at Number Seven.... He was an experienced second string in the PL.. His deal was a basic £600 and £100 a point for every point over four.. He scored four so just got his £600.. If thats a Number Seven deal then what were the rest on? Wouldn't have thought those numbers have come down any since then.. Didn't the fast track lads get an agreed £450 per match minimum? That's £1800 for both FTR's each team would need to find to pay for the home and away match.. Approx 120 fans worth of income after tax just to pay the reserves? In a crowd of at best at most tracks 1000 - 1200 or so. And the FTR was brought in to reduce coats so how much would two of the old foreign experienced 4-5 point men reserves cost?

You would have to rely on the integrity of the Promoter obviously.. Like any business that runs PRP... I am sure integrity won't be a problem as its Speedway..😁

Great post... Performance Related Pay.... Works very well!.. Many Promoters often bemoan.. "A losing team loses fans and winning at home is key to crowd levels".. Well pay your riders accordingly... A win bonus and a bonus for fan base... eg No1 wants say £200 a point then its agreed he gets it only if they win, his basic is £150 a point and he gets his bonus paid on victory.. eg2, A club I presume bases it's budget on expected income based on previous average crowd level info, therefore, if the average being used is 1000 fans then agree with the riders that if they get this figure to 1200 they then share 100 fans worth of attendance money. And every 100 further increase in attendance delivered the same deal.. It would maybe even bond the team together as a collective which must be hard at present to do with the riders riding for so many different teams..

Spot on... The Promoters surely realise that whoever wins meetings and Leagues under the current Mickey Mouse way the sport is ran that any 'victory' isn't worth having... And therefore why should fans attend such contrived nonsense... Instead of contriving each meeting with any random selection of riders they would be far better advised working together and 'contriving teams' of relative equal strengths, planning in a fixture list well in advance of other Leagues and giving riders a 'take it or leave it' ultimatum.. If they can get two Leagues of ten teams then a DU gets a minimum 72 meetings a season, if teams meet twice home and away.. If that's not enough for any rider then they need to stand aside and let the many behind them who do take their place..

£15 max for top division.. All kids in for free.. When my lad got in for free and it was £15 basically for the two of us I went pretty regular.. Now he is a 14 year old I have to pay for him. Approx £25 in total on average at most tracks we visit.. Add in the usual bit of nosebag, car park and programme at these things and fifty notes can swiftly depart the wallet.. I have to be honest expecting me to attend one of the many Mickey Mouse meetings and pay circa £50 notes every week is a non starter.. Weekly Speedway as has been mentioned with fixed nights would mean circa £200 out of a monthly salary.. For many fans, Speedway isn't their main entertainment fix and is often a 'nice to do' rather than something that you prioritise.. Letting the kids in for free would if nothing else mean more visits from the likes of me (if it has some credibility) and surely its better to have someone visiting say 15 times a year at £10 - £15 that someone attending about five times and paying £25..? Especially if you own your own track and take the bar, food and car park revenue.. And the place wouldn't look so deserted each week...

Then why are the largest crowds for most tracks the £10 BT nights..? If Woffy and Dudek had been there and the tracks charged £25 the crowd would have been almost non existent...

But surely affordable for most teams? Five man teams in the top division dividing up £10k a week for two home and away meetings between them... Six man teams in the second, with it basically being 'four and two juniors' dividing up £6k between them.. Run with fixed nights for both ten team Leagues, two home, two away per team, and a heat leader DU could earn a good few grand a week and race a minimum 72 matches, even in a team with no Cup or Play Off matches... One thing is for sure... Charging circa £17 - £20 entrance fee will NEVER work if you want to bring a crowd in regularly.. Speedway is a tiny, tiny minority Sport which needs to start to build a fan base again either by bringing back those who no longer go or attracting new fans... A maximum £15 price point I would say is the most it can ever reasonably request given its 'status'.. Paying out to less riders per meeting will help it to deliver that and deliver a surplus of talent to replace riders through the Season.. Riding circa 72 times on 'good' pay rates would encourage plenty of riders to take part too I would suggest. .

800 and 600 punters must be doable as an absolute minimum at £15 and £12..? 1000 and 800 must be the real minimum target of teams, (pathetic numbers I know but sadly where the Sport is)... This should cover most of the rent allied to £500 or so of Sponsorship per meeting? ...

Five man teams similar to Denmark 10 Teams - 50 riders needed.. Salary cap in place..... Rough Rider Levels as many riders could be in several categories such is the number of DU's.... No1. Current No1 Rider in Premiership/No2 Heat Leader Level in Premiership (£1500 a night) No2. Current 3rd Heat Leader Level in Premiership/No 1 rider in Championship (£1250 a night) No3. Current 2nd/3rd Heat Leader Level in Championship/2nd String Level in Premiership. (£1000 a night) No4. Current Second String at Championship Level/Reserve in Premiership. (£750 a night) No5. Current National League Heat Leader Level. (£500 a night) Total £5000 a night.. Each team will need to find £10000 to pay for home and away match. Two fixed nights per week, one home, one away (make it same teams, same week to add a bit of interest) 800 adult fans paying £15 needed to pay riders and VAT man per meeting.. Top man gets £3000 a week.. Home and Away twice equals 36 matches, then.... Split into top five and bottom five, (points scored thus far carry into it similar to Super Eights in Rugby League), that will deliver a further 8 home and away once matches per team.. Top four from both Groups then go into respective Semis... Winners race off in Grand Finals... The "Ivan Mauger Trophy" for the Winners of the Top Group and the "Peter Collins Shield" for the Bottom Five Play Off winners. (Many non Speedway fans will still recognise those two names).. Finalists will run 48 matches in Total.. Meaning 24 weeks of continuous home meetings.... Throw in a Cup Comp of Eight Teams (top Eight from previous season) and the Finalists will run a further six matches meaning a 54 match Season... Just 800 fans to make it pay (not including Sponsorship) Surely achievable and with only five riders per team this should give plenty of replacements for injury and loss of form ... (Who knows it may mean an end to G****s)..😉 Championship made up of six riders per team, ten teams, riding different nights from the Top League, four Brits per team minimum, two reserves must be NL (non heat leader level) U21 years of age or less than three years experience. . Anyone from Top Division except No1 rider can DU... Salary Cap and resultant admission based on Premiership Cap as one more rider per team could be 40% less which would be £3000 per match meaning 600 punters at £12 to pay riders for both home and away matches and VAT... Those numbers must be doable. .?

Spot on. .. And because these things happen we end up with ludicrous half arsed supplementary regulation after supplementary regulation to try and cover for every eventuality... Which then brings the resultant s**t storm and incessant ridicule of those who run the Sport as whatever rule they come up with will simply lack any credibilty.. Instead of having to spend what must be hours 'making up' supplementary regulations for every conceivable anomaly, just, instead, run the bloody sport properly.. Clear, simple, 'take it or leave it', one rider one team, available every meeting, rules...

It is all a bit shambolic Britsh Speedway isn't it? It appears to have a couple of loaded guns pointing permanently at its feet.. With post-it notes on the triggers saying "Pull Here"...😨😕

Cannot knock the endeavour JTS... These lads simply need to be opened up more regularly to their counterparts overseas... Beating 'each other' is no real barometer of where they are in the grand scheme of things... More U21 Test Matches would bring them on and I would suggest be viable such is their novelty value these days...

The problem we have is that any young rider that shows a modicum of being better than his peers all of a sudden becomes "the next white hope"... Joe Screen at 16 used to beat established World Class Heat Leaders regularly in a League far and away of a much higher standard than that of today.. Joe got to Number Six in the World... No mean achievement, yet... Not one British U21 rider today is anywhere near Joe's standard that he had as a 16 year old..... Dan Bewley and possibly others may move to World Class but it's definitely not a given... Beating (no disrespect) "never will be's" each week is simply no preperation for coming up against true talent.. There will be 20 'Dan Bewley's in Poland all willing to knock hell out of each other to reach the massive rewards available... This educates them as to what is needed and they learn to deal with real pressure at a very early age.. Being a big fish in a small pond doesn't prepare you for swimming with sharks in an ocean..

Attracting top men back? If any promoters feels that this would entice fans back regularly they need their collective bumps felt... Admission fees are too high now, what would they need to be to absorb this added cost? Imagine a ten team Premiership each with a GP rider riding twice a week in each team... That would cost approx £40000 a week (minimum) for the Sport...... A much better idea would be to collectively pay £10000 a week and get some professional company to market the sodding Sport nationally...! GP riders are fine and may (until the novelty wears off) see an increase in crowds as those who now stay away 'drift back'. However pretty soon they will be start to become 'unavailable' for 'various' reasons and 'Guestfest' after 'Guestfest' Mickey Mouse meetings will again become the norm... Although fans would be even more peed off than currently because then it will be 'Tai and Magic' missing not some DU'ing Championship heat leaders like happens now... Typical Speedway vision, ie throwing money into trying to attract back the 500 or so per track that no longer go, instead of throwing money at trying to attract the 60 Million who have never even heard of the Sport which for many is on their proverbial doorstep!!.. A Crackers Business Plan... But sadly par for the course....

Spot on... Great Post... Classic example of a lack of promoting and marketing is this week at BV.. Due to all the issues getting fixtures planned they ran with two meetings in three days.. The result? Riders missing meaning Two 'Guestfests' and two poor crowds... You could say a blind man could see it was always going to be thus... However someone with Promoting and Marketing capability definitely would have forseen the resultant loss of revenue and would have taken steps to prevent or at least minimise any loss.. Maybe linking the two meetings under a discount ticket for Adults and, as it's the last week of the kids holidays, maybe let U18's in for free would have delivered two decent crowds? ... I attended neither due to the 'Mickey Mouse' nature of both meetings, however if me an my 14 year old lad had got in for say £25 in total for both matches I am sure to get my 'Speedway fix' I would have gone along and simply sat back and watched the racing not caring who actually won given the make up of the teams. BV would recieve less than 'Full Price' maybe but much better than the zero income they did recieve from me. (And they would also have got us both on both nights visiting the food and drink outlets).. We have attended the Colts this year far more than the Premiership matches with that simple view of (no disrespect intended) "its only the Colts so just watch the racing". And for a tenner in total for the two if us its truly great value.. Unfortunately you shoudn't have to view the Premiership (the top level of racing in this Country) the same way when you are paying far, far more for the privilege.. Deliver a consistent fixture list on nights that delivers the best crowd and you give yourself half a chance of being succesful. Ensure each meeting has credibility and integrity and you increase your chances of success several fold.. If World Class riders can be there EVERY meeting too then great. If not, so be it...

A 'full team'? At a Speedway meeting? Asking for a lot there FF.... Worth getting some commemorative T shirts made if it happens though....😀 "I WAS THERE" etc type of thing...😲

Not at all. .. I don't blame Doyle or any top rider for the shambles that is British Speedway.. He/They have to do what is right for themselves.. The truth is the likes of Doyle have outgrown British Speedway and therefore British Speedway should just accept it and move on at a lower level without them.. One night a week, two nights a week, all set in stone, will be great but adding more GP stars to the Sports weekly wage bill won't be affordable... It would be great to have Doyle, Lindgren, Holder, Tai, Greg, Emil, Nicki, Lindback, Kildemand, NKI, Magic, Zagar and the Pawlickis riding here every week.. But realistically who will pay them? It won't be extra fans coming through the turnstiles, that ship has long sailed.. The Agenda for the Top Riders is a million miles away from what GB can deliver so let them move on with their careers and British Speedway try and salvage what's left of the Sport..