mikebv

None of that really made much of a difference... The key things they did which drove the success of the Sport in Poland were the following... They found great success in letting riders dictate to clubs when they would be available, meaning they had to ride on nights to suit the riders earnings rather than when the spectators wished meetings to be ran... They also saw great benefit and positive feedback from the mainstream media by allowing meetings to take place with the two teams in attendance regularly being made up by any random couple of septets who happened to be available. Septets that had been cobbled together on an adhoc basis on any given evening, to wear the colours of the two clubs competing.. Another master stroke was ensuring that as many riders as possible were contracted to as many teams as possible, preferably covering (thus impacting), three leagues, which meant "guests" were in great demand, bringing that much needed lack of credibility to almost every match that takes place.. Possibly their finest idea was to produce a fixture list and then systematically dismantle it halfway during the season so plenty of "guests" can always be available. (And spectators who had booked time off work, and maybe hotels to watch their team, become disillusioned). A fixture list which had been put together in the first place with a clear plan to avoid running meetings during the warmer, dryer Summer months, and instead, cramming in as many meetings as possible towards October and November when it becomes colder and wetter. With the genius add on of running "dead rubber" League meetings to qualify for the play offs, AFTER the play offs have been completed and the League has already been won.. Add in an admission fee that has no correlation to the entertainment value on offer, but goes up by inflation busting amounts annually, allied to a year on year reduction in the overall quality of riders on show, and you surely have the perfect recipe for success.. Cannot think why the BSPA don't run something along similar lines.. Sure to be a winner...

You know it makes sense... Lavverley Jabberley.. Cash only though obviously... (In used notes).. Cushty... (Keep yer eye out fer vem developerz Rodney, scarper quick if yer see 'em)...

Agree with everything you say, however.. Not sure if it will cease to exist as it has ran pretty much the same operating model for decades and is still here. (Just).. The big difference nowadays is obviously Social Media magnifies the issues a thousand fold, hence we discuss the nonsense that so often pervades far wider than we used to years ago when we all agreed it was still nonsense but at a very local level, eg with the five or six people you were stood with at the track after finding out your No1 was in Germany to ride in a Long Track meeting tomorrow, and your opponent had four guests due to one being in the same Long Track meeting, and the others missing because this was an rearranged meeting... Same nonsense but we had already paid our money when we found out so didn't have a choice to attend or not.. Speedway hasn't cottoned on that Social Media can be a huge force for good but sadly also hasn't realised that it can also be a huge problem given 'bad news' is now 'out there' within seconds... The sad fact is the way they give out so much nonsense through their ridiculous operating model, it leaves them wide open to ridicule via the modern media, which can never be a good start from which to attract a decent following... What you got away with in the Seventies when England/GB had great teams, great riders and great coverage on mainstream written and visual media, you simply cannot get away with now... Domestic Speedway was still "a bit Mickey Mouse" back then, but what you saw on ITV on a Saturday afternoon wasn't domestic league Speedway and always had credibility (and an 'X Factor' in Peter Collins)... And domestic Speedway then flourished on the coat tails of this coverage... Yet Speedway still runs a very similar operating model domestically that it did in the Seventies.. And it still runs a similar all round entertainment package for your night out that it did in the Seventies.... But doesn't anywhere near still run a similar admission cost to what it did in the Seventies when index linked to inflation... Cease to exist? Probably not for a good while yet, but it will (and can) only meander to an ever decreasing fan base using its current model of operation. One piece of bright news is I read today that the over 60's in ten years will form over 12 million of the whole population... Maybe light at the end of the Speedway tunnel after all...

Sadly, history tells us you will be correct. (Or ran even worse)....

Another one of those "Speedway Bubble" strange operating model inclusions that are allowed to happen... No relevance or credibility in the 'real world' but in Speedway (British Speedway), "there is no other way" so everyone runs along with it, and hope, no doubt, that no one will ever question it... You have a contract with someone and fulfill that contract, when it comes to an end you finish working for them. You can then decide to go and work wherever you want/can... But not in British Speedway.. What a strange (and often ridiculous) way the Sport in this Country has of running itself across the breadth of its operating model.... Yet it seems to make 'perfect sense' to those who find themselves within "The Bubble"..!...

If this happens would Lakeside have to change their name to Seaside? Moving a Speedway team out of its area of emotional attachment simply doesn't work.. Crowds are not large enough in the first place to do what for example MK Dons managed as they had the football windfall cash to fall back on if crowds were poor.. If you are only getting 500 or so 'loyal local followers' then moving it several tens of miles away can only reduce that meagre crowd level further. And won't get many of the locals from the new base to attend as its not 'their team'.. I would suggest the only way to make it work for the promoters is to take over at another track and change names... Sad to see, but just one track of several more to go over the next few years I would say.. British Speedway reaping what it has sowed for far, far too long..

Don't know why anyone is bothered with teams changing their riders.. They change on an adhoc basis most weeks every time they use a guest.. At least changing poor performers gives the sport at least a 'nod' towards proper Sports that do the same, and gives the impression to anyone observing from outside the "Speedway Bubble" that it has bona fide Championships worth actually winning.. (Even if we know the reality to be somewhat different)...

And at least one team, and often more, will end up miles behind the top teams... In March they all are supposed to start 'relatively' equal... Also in March, most contributors on here can spot how poor some of the teams actually are.. By the end of April those teams highlighted are invariably getting hammered each week.. And will continue to do do so unless they have money to replace poor performers with better riders.. And if they had that money, they wouldn't have put that team together in the first place.. Too many teams (or not enough riders) to ever keep the Leagues competitive and with no relegation each team basically decides it's own level, sometimes based on the ego of the Promoter... For me, the top league should have no more than 10 teams with six riders per team.. 60 riders needed and all above a four point average.. No make weights allowed at the bottom end of the teams.. 40 point average per team, meaning you could have one 4/5/6/7/8/9 point plus rider per team if you so wished.. With the top league becoming an aspirational motivator for the other clubs to aspire to. Not "I've got a few quid, I want to race in the Premiership".. No point having the 'flagship league' loaded with uncompetitive teams as this would just be damaging the 'Speedway GB' brand even further...

'Why run the league?' might be a more relevant topic question..... Allied to a follow up of 'Who really cares who wins?'... Given the way the Sport is allowed to be ran, you just can't take any of the the League's seriously, so I wouldn't get too embroiled in whether play offs are a fair way of settling them or not.... It doesn't really matter who wins does it?

Credit should be given to the Vice Chairman for his actions last night... By heat eight the aggregate lead had been wiped out and it was obvious Scunthorpe were going to get badly beaten.... Yet he graciously allowed the meeting to continue.... In fact, in the first place, he also kindly allowed the meeting to take place on an 'off night' for Worky so fair play to the bloke... Lets hope Worky winning is seen as being 'in the interests of Speedway' and the result stands... Well done Workington, I think you have a lot of neutrals on your side around the country given the way you try to go about your business and have been treated this year... Best of Luck this weekend...

2001 no?

They are only holding one lap races next year?

Should be printed off and handed out pre AGM to the Promoters.... Great post... Clear demarcation between leagues will generate aspirational improvements for both riders and clubs.. With financial rewards commensurate to each level... Time to stop the ego trip of too many who want to be seen rubbing shoulders with GP superstars and get real... One rider/One club, with each team riding on nights they feel they can attract the best crowds... If you want to ride in GB them you make yourself available for every meeting or you don't ride over here... For the promoters part they put out a fixture list by the end of November, and everyone is signed up by mid December. Promoters also commit to not planning any meeting at any time knowing riders are elsewhere.. Time for GB to stand alone, it cannot compete with Sweden or Poland so don't... Get the product credible, at a realistic admission cost, and start again from there.. All agree reduced ticket prices for away fans like the Premier League do in Football (easy to ensure integrity as the away team can sell the tickets at their own track).. And all contribute to employing a marketing company to get brand "Speedway GB" out there.. Let's be honest, 99.9% of the population don't go to Speedway and not many of that number even know about it.. A huge opportunity for a progressive marketing company you would think to earn themselves some big commission given the raw material of the racing to work with... Time to stop keeping doing what hasn't worked and start doing something different and new...

Teams that use bibs make all the guests that get used look the same as the rest of the team... Having four guest riders in bibs and three of their own riders in club kevlars looks ridiculous.. Even more so when guests use their own clubs kevlars under the bib...!

Common sense at last... Well done, great post... Both superb riders... One fantastic from the start who can pass riders using a very smooth technique, and seems to set up the move strategically well before the almost inevitable execution of it.. The other, not so good from the start, more animated physically on the bike, finding extra grip that no one else could, in areas of the track not many ventured to use, meaning he had a more 'raw' technique, but one he used it to pass riders like it was shelling peas.. Both great to watch in their way and for me, Tai, given his greater starting technique, would have the edge between the two.. But only just though... In my fantasy match race he would end up beating PC by the width of a tyre after leading by 20 yards or so after the first lap...

Often on here, we bemoan the lack of mainstream media coverage, and the very poor following the sport has considering over 60 million people live in the country, with many of them living no more than an hour away from a Speedway track.. Howerver, due to the (almost weekly) way the Sport is so dreadfully ran (in the UK)... Maybe it really is better that hardly anyone knows about Speedway in the UK, as just imagine the weekly laughing stock it would deliver if put out to a wider sporting community...? Better to stay under the radar I would suggest and keep it 'Mickey Mouse'... Who knows, maybe one day Disney may finally see the obvious synergy and come onboard with a multi million pound sponsorship?

You are right... Best leave it to the professionals... If only Lakeside had said 'bring a friend' it could all have been so different...

Got to say if many free tickets got into the hands of regulars then I would suggest the marketing plan isn't a great one... 2.5 Million people live in Grt Manchester... About 1400 go to BV... (And some of them are from further afield than McR).. So not too many should get into the regulars hands given those odds... And given the huge market to go at, the size of the prize should withstand the odd ticket finding its way to a regular surely? However, when I spoke with the Promoter it was a long time ago and time has moved on, and giving out free tickets physically is no longer required given the digital age, meaning a far easier way of targeting your market.... As several have said, the sport cannot attract 'kids' as they are not interested therefore it should target the 30+ somethings that hopefully can vaguely remember it when it had a decent following... Geting a couple of hundred of 30/40 (and above) year olds would be a bit easier to achieve than getting kids and their parents there.. Do it via a professional social media campaign and start some constant engagement with your potential customer base.. Or alternatively put some leaflets on cars in Supermarkets or ask your regulars to 'bring a friend'...

I wonder if any track tries to get local 'celebrities' to follow them on Twitter? Given the reputation of the BV board for example you would think they could know someone who has the 'ear' of the likes of Mourinho, Guardiola or maybe some of the players..? Maybe getting a few retweets off them may get their followers noticing the sport as it could be taken as an endorsement from them..? At the NSS for example the Mayor of Mcr, (Andy Burnham) is a very high profile person on social media and has a desire to end homelessness.... BV should latch on to this and see how they can help out by being a pillar of the community... The world has changed from "let's put leaflets on cars in supermarket car parks"... Sometimes you think Speedway seems to see leafleting cars in car parks as quite "cutting edge" when it comes to marketing..

Suggested something similar to a Promoter about 20 years ago... He spent the next two minutes after my suggestion working out how much it was going to cost him in 'lost revenue' by giving away free and discounted entry over several weeks... That would be 'lost revenue' that wasn't actually there in the first place because the people being targeted were those that were never attending....!!! He also was concerned that these tickets could end up being received by fans who actually did attend and this would hit income... I tactfully tried to explain that given the fact that as more than 99.9% of the 2.5 million people living less than 45 mins away don't attend, it was probably 'not too likely' many actual fans would gain from it but obviously there may be an odd one.. Bottom line is that the sport in a team guise (in the UK), is a busted flush... And has now gone too far to ever get credibility to be regarded as 'proper' by national mainstream media and treated seriously by them. And without that coverage crowds can never improve...

No doubt this Mickey Mouse nonsense is allowed because it's "in the interest of British Speedway" tigerowl...! Dont quite see the irony of that by those who run it do they?

I am not sure about that... Just because the same business plan has been used for the past fifteen years or so and failed, doesn't mean it won't be a roaring success this time...! Maybe one day, British Speedway will be revered the World over as being one of a very select group who have proved Einstein wrong...

Correct.. Tennis is another example... For donkeys years Britain had no chance of a Grand Slam winner yet for two weeks every summer you had hundreds of hours of coverage, watched by people who hadn't heard of 90% of competitors. Public courts actually had players on them too.. The day after the final no one gave a toss once more about Tennis until the same two weeks the year after.. Sometimes minority sports in the UK, like Tennis and Formula One, simply get their coverage down to the huge sponsorship which is attracted by its global following.. It becomes such a cash cow that it simply will never be allowed to disappear off the TV screens and newspapers regardless of the actual following.. And the reason it becomes such a cash cow is largely down to the socio economic grouping of its followers.. Plenty of A's and B's, white middle class, males and females, covering a wide demographic.... Perfect for high end companies sponsorship... Speedway on the other hand has a somewhat different profile of followers....

Maybe they could run the Cup Comps in October? Get the play offs complete by the end of September when the weather should be at its best.. Then for the Prem, first week in October the quarter final (), 2nd week the semi and the final in week three. Leaving one more week for rain offs etc.. For the Championship they will need the full month due to more teams.. Poland and Sweden are finished so all riders should be available.. It gives the teams with zero chance in the League something to strive for.. And prevents the Cup going on for months which sadly devalues it so much... Maybe they could do the draw based on the final league positions? In the Prem, Top v Eighth, Second v Seventh etc.. (Presuming they can keep eight teams in it obviously) That would hopefully leave the top two in the final if the seeding worked... Having a Sept end date for the League would also focus the mind on getting the League finished and result in more meetings taking place during the key summer holiday period of July and August.... If doubling up prevents this happening as riders will need to be in two places at once in October then run one of the Cup Comps in the first month of the season.. Or they could just carry on doing what they do now...? It works so well..

Excellent Post Hawk127 Promoters often bemoan how the dodgy weather in this country can knock off the gate those vitally required couple hundred or so that make all the difference to them... Then plan in no fixtures for weeks during the hottest summer for decades.... I think I spot a flaw in their cunning plan... And even if they say they didn't know the weather would be scorching, I would suggest there's a better than evens chance of running in July and August than running in October..