mikebv

Not really sure why there is ever a debate re which league is better... The vast majority of riders ride in both so surely they are pretty much the same? The Premiership 'should' be the pinnacle of the Sport, the one that becomes the aspirational top level for those climbing the ladder (Clubs and Riders). And the one that brings in the most publicity for the Sport by having the 'biggest teams', which then feeds down the natural levels.... That it isn't all of the above, doesnt do the sport any favours..

Run the sport at a level to what is affordable through the income it generates. Delivered by a price point that reflects its current position within its Sporting peer group, (rather than a price point agreed upon just to try and desperately cover unsustainable running costs).. On nights/afternoons you can attract most locals to visit you.. The World Champion, Jason Doyle, could walk through the centre of Manchester today and 10,000 people will walk past him without the slightest inkling of who is his.. Therefore trying to sell a Speedway meeting in Manchester (for a minimum £18), with the main thrust of your advertising that Doyle is there isn't going to encourage many takers.. Time for the Sport (in Britain) to go back to year zero, unravel all the myriad of reasons told to those who run the sport by the many who no longer attend, and start again... Seven man teams? Six man teams? Five man teams? One League? Two Leagues? Three Leagues? Four Leagues? National or Regional? Maybe even No Leagues?! Agree a structure that provides clear aspirational movement between levels for riders and teams, and bring in clear unambiguous rules and regulations that all supporters get to see and have explained to them.. In short. Bring credibility and integrity. Deliver a price point that perceives value for money but covers costs, and a level of racing that delivers four riders per race of fairly similar capabilty, that are 100% committed to British Speedway... If that doesn't work then give up... But we are a long, long way short of that vision at the moment..

Spot on... And to a huge amount of people, (but incredibly not all!), glaringly obvious.. The only way the Sport over here can move forwards is to accept the current operating model and business plan is bollocks and radically and fundamentally change it... Pay what you can afford to a level of rider willing to commit 100% to British Speedway.. Don't even try and compete with Poland and Sweden as all you will create is, naturally, riders who will give it their best shot but inevitably, save their best for where the real money is.. Whilst at the same time you wil be raising salary expectations from the other six in the team as the No1 salary will set the benchmark.. At the moment we have a race to the bottom.. And nobody wins that...

Kim Jong Un-placed... Kim Jong Un-derperforming.. Kim Jong Un-der pressure for his place Kim Jong Un-available, (R Schlein is to Guest)

I actually think bringing 'ex fans' back is a lot easier than generating new ones.. And let's face it, there are a big number of 'ex fans' on EVERY clubs' doorstep... There are many, many social media outlets to browse, not to mention the Speedway Stars letter pages over the past ten years or so if Promoters still need a clue... If each track could get just 500 of these 'ex fans' back it would make a huge difference to the Sport. (An incredible 'small' number in the grand scheme of things but that just shows how far the sport has regressed).. Listen to why they stopped going, lose the egotistical attitude of "we are right, they are wrong, and if it wasnt for us there would be no Speedway" and put fixes in place to correct what is wrong... As a starting point... Credibilty, integrity, with an evening of entertainment at a price point commensurate with what's actually on offer...

Presume his passport/visa issues are also why he isn't in the SON team?

I think those lads four words are very pertinent... In the BV Select v KL match it was unusual for the HOME team to run a fixture with missing riders. . Usually it's the AWAY team who will turn up with a 'select' team... I can only presume the away teams agree to the fixture, knowing they have riders missing, because it won't actually effect their business directly through the turnstiles that evening.... As well as, depending on the technical nature of the track, allow them to hire some ringers for the night. Which ironically may get them a victory which could actually encourage an improved crowd number attends their next home meeting!... (And maybe if a No1 is missing for them it may actually save them money too!?)... Maybe I am being too cynical and none of the above is correct and it is just an oversight, incompetence or simply a 'fait accompli' that sees so many meetings ran with guest riders... Not a great way collectively to run a business that relies on crowd numbers to be successful though is it?

I didn't go on Monday, as it wouldn't have mattered to me whether the 'Aces Select' won or lost... Win = "Hollow victory as it wasnt really Belle Vue"... Draw/Lose = "Not bothered as it wasnt really Belle Vue that drew/lost"... The same would have been true if KL has turned up at the NSS with such a nonsense team... Win = "Hollow victory as it wasnt really Kings Lynn"... Draw/Lose = "Not bothered as it wasn't really Kings Lynn who drew with/beat us".. And if the outcome of a match has absolutely no bearing on you as a fan of any sport, then you simply have no emotional attachment to it and your 'hard earned' stays firmly in your pocket.. And team sports 100% rely on this emotional attachment to prosper.. Or even maybe to just survive... Some on here are now of the position that they are content to just watch ANY fourteen riders per meeting, four riders per race etc etc and the racing is the most important thing rather than any actual meeting credibility and integrity... To a large extent I can understand this, as many times over the past ten years or so, nothing more than random septets have been what we have had served up with great regularity, however I would suggest that this view will be shared by, in the main, the die hards who love their Speedway, (any Speedway).. And sadly, they are becoming an ever decreasing number.. Let's be honest, when you attend an event for a National Championship in a professional sport, you shouldn't have to collude with those running that sport in pretending that it is a bona fide competition and has credibility and integrity... And any sport using this as the fundamental basis of it's operating model and business plan could find it a 'modicum' difficult to be successful...

Spot on. .. And some will say "we have had guests for donkeys years"... And indeed we have, however... The days of turning up at a track, without any prior knowledge, and being peed off to find out PC wasn't there and that another teams' best rider replaced him have long, long gone... Sweden and Poland run fixed nights and don't use guests.... Their Championships therefore have credibility... We run the same system and still have guests... Meaning our Championships don't have credibilty.. It's interesting we didn't use one fixed night like Sweden. So as, I presume, to facilitate the use of guests... And then our version of 'two fixed nights' is actually three, and that all fixtures are arranged, it would appear, to again, facilitate guest replacements, unlike Poland, who with their three nights still don't use guests.. What you got away with in years gone by, doesn't mean in this age of 'instant news' you can still get away with it today... When we found out PC wasn't there after we had paid our hard earned to get in, we often moaned to each other, but it was to the 10 or so people around you.... Nowadays you know BV are missing riders days in advance and instead of moaning to ten people, literally thousands on various forums get to read it... And then make their decision to attend the fixture... With many, 100% understandably, deciding against it.. If you don't run any Sport with credibility and integrity, you simply cannot complain when you struggle to generate decent crowds every week. And when you add on that winning that Sports Championship's mean very little (by the very way they are won), and you have real problems I would suggest..

Gutted for losing by four... (Because I had the Stars down for a six point win on the Belle Vue Army Prediction League)... And Bewley as top scorer. .. Damn you Rohan! Damn you! Well I had to have something to keep me interested in this nonsense meeting... Oh yes, well done to King's Lynn, the best team won.. (Well the ONLY team there won I should have said).....

Correct, four man teams with two or three guests is what we want..... Or maybe three man teams with three or four guests is what we want...? Or maybe seven man teams made up of anyone who happens to be available is what we want..? With the current piss poor attendances, paying seven, rather than less employees makes absolutely perfect fiscal sense.. Maybe Speedway should run with eight man teams to ensure its not 'repititive' and add more costs and double upping complexity?

With every single one of them committed to British Speedway.. They might not be 'Superstars' but very, very few are.. The vast majority of riders will always be 'average'... Let them earn couple of grand a week on 'average'.... Every week..

If there are not enough riders to run seven man teams then don't.. If you cannot afford to run seven man teams then don't.. The fewer riders per team will free up others to replace injured riders.. Simply base your team structures on what you can afford and run on nights that bring the most money in...

The time was probably ten or so years ago to be honest..... However, I think some egos of those who run the sport will always stand in the way... Dealing with 'superstars', I think, must give some a sense of 'reflected glory'... Ride on nights that give you the best crowd and grow the sport from its current 'rock bottom' base, only use riders committed 100% to GB Speedway. And pay them what is affordable from an entrance fee of no more than fifteen quid..

Wow... Same Sport...? Similar scenario...? Two different outcomes...? Amazing....! Who would have thought that some clubs can still actually use common sense...?

??? Come on Phil, how long have you been involved in and around Speedway Promoters??.. I presume the question must have been rhetorical as I am sure you know the answer....

Or they just call it off as "not in the interests of (British) Speedway"...? Been done before I believe?..

I too will be giving this farce a miss... However... On here and various other forums we will get several contributors to the threads discussing whom are the best guests... Several will comment that "it will still be good racing".... And come the result, several will comment on how it was either a good result or a bad one, as if it was an actual bona fide sporting contest between two professional sports teams vying for a National Title.. Sometimes, Speedway fans really do get the operating model (and sport) they deserve...

Simply do what is so obviously the thing to do when running a Motorsport business.. Run Friday and Saturday nights, and Sunday late afternoon, with riders who are 100% available EVERY week And run on EVERY Bank Holiday, THE most lucrative days to attract crowds out looking to be entertained.. Have a salary cap per team of £5k a match, meaning if they ran five man teams (to spread the riders) the 'Mr Average' rider would earn £2k a week in the two matches over each weekend. At a pay scale structure of £1500, 1250, 1000, 750, 500 per night. I am pretty sure you would get plenty of interest from many riders of a more than 'reasonable level'.. Maybe not the 'superstars', but they earn vast amounts in Poland so wouldn't be interested anyway.. And Poland may pay more than £3k in the 2nd and 3rd Divisions for one meeting but you are often only one bad meeting away from earning ZERO the week after, so a No1 who is guaranteed £3k EVERY week would find it a decent proposition I would suggest.. Charge £15 per adult and nothing for kids 16 and under. Generating £14.4k after VAT for a 1200 crowd. Thus leaving £4.4k towards your running costs after paying out to the riders for two meetings... 1. Run on days which can generate the best crowds.. 2. Run with teams full of riders who are 100% committed to British Speedway.. 3. Charge a maximum of £15 to get in with kids free.. Surely worth a go? And let's face it if you tick those three boxes and it still doesn't work, then you might as well give up, (but at least you would know you tried).. However, with the current operating model you simply have no chance of ever being successful..

At BV, Dave Gordon and Chris Morton were the 'sticking plaster' that held together the club whilst they raced on a Monday, and in the BV business plan to the council put forward for the NSS, it clearly mentioned Monday as not being viable and that running on Fridays and Saturdays will be THE main reason the club will be sustainable and profit making.. However, the way (British) Speedway has been ran for what feels like 'donkeys years' now has left literally thousands of fans disillusioned with it, and over those years far too many have simply drifted away to probably now make any night viable... There is simply zero point having "great racing" if the riders doing it are just a cobbled together, one night only, guestfest select.. Without it being ran properly, the sport actively undermines the "great racing" and sadly the crowd levels attracted to these 'Mickey Mouse' meetings will never do it justice... With the NSS you can virtually guarantee "great racing", yet I can also virtually guarantee that with the riders missing on Monday v Kings Lynn the crowd will not be in any way, shape or form, "great"..... Many on here often refer to (British) Speedway regularly "shooting itself in the foot".. But, to be honest if (British) Speedway had a rifle, and pressed it against its foot and then pulled the trigger, I actually suspect it would quite probably miss..

And Bombers on stand by should Prince Charles not make it..

A glaringly obvious opportunity missed Rob... However, just one of the very many missed every single season with the BH crowds... People say that no one knows about the Aces/Sport? Well the BH crowds show a good many do (and probably used to be regulars)... They just didn't see/couldn't afford spending circa £20 each week to attend as value for money so got out of the habit of going.. 900 paying around 20 notes will generate less than 2000 paying a tenner... But 2000 paying a tenner would generate an infinitely better atmosphere which could only encourage some to come back again... And sell more programmes and take more on the concessions... And also sell the sport far more positively on the box to those curious enough to watch the Speedway on a quiet night for live Sport now the football seasons globally are coming to a close... Rinse, repeat and fade... Edit. Hang on, doing a ten pound special would reduce the season ticket holders value. I forgot that... Or 'Trying to run a business for six months after tying both hands behind your back' as selling season tickets to a couple of hundred people (at best) should be known..

The only issue with that plan is that they would arrange all three Test matches on Wednesdays and have to get a load of Poles and Swedes in to guest as the British and Danes would all be unavailable...

But again there in lies another of Speedways nonsense operating ideas.. If, as they did, they decided Wednesday and not the agreed Thursday was going to be the fixed night, then it should have been decreed no Danish riders allowed.. Or... The fixed nights will be, as agreed, Monday and Thursday, hence no clashes with Denmark so all Danish riders allowed.. 'Common sense' I believe it is known as... Typically Speedway in this country then tried to deliver its usual cobbled together half arsed plan that appeases everyone but ultimately helps no one to move the Sport forward.. Death by a thousand (self inflicted) cuts could be a very apt description....

And isn't this exactly why Speedway has zero credibility as a team sport...? Promoters must literally spend hours trying to arrange meetings to get an advantage over their rivals knowing they will be missing riders, and then more hours sourcing the best guests available.. Rather than spending those zero value adding hours planning (and then aggressively promoting), meetings that have both credibility and integrity.... The irony being is that all that planning and thought is designed to win a meeting that is now rendered totally meaningless by the very definition of the teams so painstakingly put together..! You couldn't make it up sometimes could you? Poole have released Kildemand as he will miss nine matches however if he had been running an 11 point average, and they would have then have had the whole league to use as guests on a 'horses for courses' basis, would they have done it? (If they could have had guests that is? Or would it have been an NL rider only they could use? Or does it come down to which meeting was arranged first? Or which meeting was rearranged first? Etc etc etc).. The fact the sport, by its actions, even facilitates such discussion about such nonsense on social meda, pretty much sums out why it is so out of touch with it current fan base and the much, much higher numbers in its 'ex fanbase'.... Simply Crackers... And I know it would never happen but this is exactly the kind of thing an independent body or person running the sport would simply not allow.... As they/he (or she it is 2018), would simply see these perpetual self inflicted situations as far too brand damaging to ever be allowed, even just once... (Never mind 'ad infinitum')!!...