mikebv

A World Class No1 'top rider' would cost around £3k a night (and maybe more if you listen to some in the Sport).. That means a track would have to find £6k from each home meeting for the two matches he rides home and away.. At £18 an adult to get in, each punter minus the VAT would generate £14.40... That means you need 416 punters through the gate just to pay for him.. With some clubs running meetings in front of not many more than 600 in total, that would leave not much over £2500 to pay the other six riders for TWO meetings... Some serious sponsorship needed to pay for that 'top rider' I would suggest as long gone are the days when any 'top rider' puts a tangible 500 or so 'extra' on the attendance..

Bring the big names back and that will increase the crowds .. Brilliant... How much would it cost to get in then? Or would we keep the same admission fee and run three man teams? Three man teams that run every fifth Monday and every third Thursday of the summer to accomodate all the No1's collective Global itinerary...

The sport is knackered... By allowing Wednesday night racing they effectively went down the 'half arsed' road.. Allowing Saturday night racing just extends the road a little bit more.. The hole they have dug is huge.. Someone needs to temporarily fill it in a bit to help someone climb out and get saved.. And if Belle Vue want to ride Friday let them. You will have more attending a 'guestfest' on that night than will attend two full teams on a Monday.. Having 'some matches' guest free rather than 'lots of matches' with guests is not really an improvement that anyone should measure as a success.. You cannot be 'a little bit pregnant' nor can you run a Professional Sport with 'a little bit of credibilty'... It's all or nothing... There really is no point in losing a club just to follow an inherently flawed, unfit for purpose Operating Model.. Time to do what they can to get everyone to the end of the season and start again with a better plan next year..

Even though Britain's nights allocated were Monday and Thursday some teams kept the huge benefit of riding on their own usual nights and stayed racing Wednesdays which wasn't the actual agreement with the rest of the Leagues... Beacuse as everyone knows, Wednesday is Denmarks night... Why shouldn't Rye House therefore be able to ride on their usual night of Satuday, (Poland's and FIM's night)? By their actions we now have Guestfests on a Wednesday? So just have more Guestfests on a Saturday... What difference does it really make if it saves a club?

I liken British Speedways problems to the British Superbikes series' predicament in the early nineties.... When Carl Fogarty was in his pomp and Sky fell in love with the World Superbikes series, giving it the massive exposure which resulted in 'Foggy' becoming a well known sportsman across all mainstream sport followers. BSB didnt try and compete. How could it? WSB had the best riders, BSB had the next level down. But instead of trying to match the WSB they ensured they delivered a great weekend of racing with the calibre of rider that they had which then grew their own 'brand'... They also realised that inevitably their best would eventually go off to seek fame and fortune in the WSB or Moto GP and test themselves in the 'higher standard' of racing. Therefore BSB invested in plenty of track time over their race weekends for the next generation of riders. With standard 'out of the box' one make Championships included to keep costs down and attract 'entry level' riders in.. The result? Thousands still attend their race weekends and plenty of British lads have made succesful careers racing at no more than a 'domestic' level.. If the likes of Dan and Robert can earn vast amounts elsewhere and improve quicker by racing against the Worlds best then good luck to them. 100% let them ride in the 'WSB' that is Poland.. However any rider wanting to ride in the 'BSB' of British Speedway needs to understand that British Speedway, and that alone, is his priority.. British Speedway has two options... Run itself like a 'proper team sport' on days and nights it's fan base can attend, paying for itself from an income delivered via a price point the fan base sees as value for money, and be as radical in delivering this as they need to be.. Or... Carry on doing what it always has.... And we know how tremendously successful that has been... The current model simply does not work and is miles away from what they need.. And as is blatantly obvious. The sport is down to the bare bones of its fan base.. Opening Friday and Saturday nights, and Sunday days, are a one million percent fundamental necessity for any business running in the entertainment sector, which is unsurprisingly why Poland (and Motor Racing in general) choose them! (How strange?!).... Simple choice... Find a way to use the weekends more, and let all tracks run on nights they know will get their biggest income... Or.... Carry on cobbling together Mickey Mouse Team Speedway meetings in front of an ever reducing fan base, running the meetings on days/nights to suit the riders but not their customers, at a far too high a price point for those customers to recognise it as value for money. I would humbly suggest that if they keep doing the latter, it can really only end one way..

No doubt some will be targeting Dan Bewley's U21 dates.....

No 'facilities' for anything... All that has ever done is create an opportunity to cut corners, fudge issues, deliver sharp practice, and always play the 'aah but this is Speedway' get out of jail card, that allows nonsense decisions to happen under an alleged concept of a professionally administrated sport.. Sod the rest of the World. . Look after No1... I don't seek permission off my competitors when I can open my business.. If I did they would want me to open from 11pm to 6am whilst they all opened 6am to 11pm... Simply run whatever night gives you the best crowd. . Publish a fixture list well in front of the rest of the European Leagues, (before the end of this season?), avoiding all 2019 FIM meetings.... And inform the riders of the fixtures before this season ends.. Tell the riders that when they sign up that they must ride in 100% of the meetings and any messing around, for example, being injured over here whilst riding elsewhere, will see them with a 12 month ban.. If DU is a 'necessary evil' then no fixtures should ever take place that means any rider needs to be in two places at once.... Run seven man teams, six man teams, five man teams etc etc. (Delete as applicable), Just as long as enough riders of a similar ability level take to the track most heats in every meeting.. Run one league, two leagues, three leagues, four leagues etc etc (Delete as applicable). Just as long as the League itself has credibilty and integrity, therefore meaning there is some actual value in actually winning the damn thing.. And maybe even bring in a salary cap with punitive action if any team flouts it... Charge max £15 for adults in the 'top league' and kids in for free.. Budget for 1200 punters (on your best night for Speedway surely possible?) meaning you take circa £14.4k after VAT on admission. Any programme profit, car park, bar take (if applicable) etc is extra, as is any sponsorship.. That £14.4k would deliver around £10k to pay riders for the home and away meeting if costs were around £4.4k.. 'IF' the numbers add up then simply build your teams with riders willing to ride at least twice a week for this money, how many actual riders per team to be determined by your £5k a night budget not by "we have to have seven because......" In short, run at whatever standard is affordable to deliver a realistic price point of admission, on nights you can attract your most income, and ensure what you put out in front of the fans has the credibility and integrity expected of a bona fide Sporting Championship.. Must be worth a try surely? For once....

Dan Bewley's World U21 meetings so far, and the meetings he will miss typifies British Speedway and all that is wrong with it... Dan should never have to miss a single meeting as he should be a major drawer card for the Sport with every track wanting him to appear, as (away) I am sure he could attract those more irregular visitors to the sport who will know his name and reputation, and (home) ensure his own fans dont feel brassed off as he is elsewhere. (Even more so if they lose that match)!! Instead I suspect some teams are even targeting these dates (if not already booked) to go up to Worky as they will feel "we have a chance if they've not got Dan".. The same will be true of the teams who still have to ride at home v Worky. "Let's try and rearrange on a night when Dan cannot be there" may well form part of any planning process... There are weeks and weeks of 'No Speedway', then, when all Leagues and FIM individual competitions come to the 'business end' of the Season, the riders who do well (invariably therefore the ones you want to watch) always seem to be riding 'elsewhere'... It cannot be beyond the whit of man to run British Speedway's fixtures around what the FIM and other Countries have already set in stone.. And it is truly incredible that, rather than colllectively work together, teams will try and put one over each other to try and win something that is defined by their very own operating model, as even less valuable than 'tin pot'... I actually think that one of the reasons there will never be an independent figurehead running the Sport over here is because they would simply not accept meetings voluntarily being arranged/taking place without the 'top riders' being available. Imagine explaining to a Barry Hearn type character, if they were in charge, that you thought it was a 'great idea' to run a Speedway Meeting knowing full well that your best riders/biggest attractions wouldnt be there? You would hear the laughter all the way to Poland..

Only because the BSPA let it... Instead of getting upset at the GP taking 'their riders' (laughable I know), they should have worked a plan to plough their own furrow.. Instead, as usual, they did their normal fudged/half way house/let's see if we can cobble together something that doesn't really actually help anyone/cross our fingers and hope for the best, 'plan'.... No one who runs the GP's bothers about British Speedway, nor do those who run their respective Leagues in Denmark, Sweden and most importantly maybe, Poland.. This must surely eventually dawn soon on those who run the sport in this country? And when it does they can then make plans to restart and rebuild the sport in Britain... With the first point on the agenda, running speedway meetings on the nights you can get your best attendances...

I thank you for your opinion of me Aces51, but honestly it is very, very basic marketing skills I possess.. I use the "listen to your customers, find out what they want from you, find the price point they are happy to pay, then give it to them", 'technique'.. I do find the "there is no other way, this is all you are going to get, I am right so take it or leave it, and if you don't use me I will shut then you will be sorry, do you know what my costs are when you moan about how much I charge?" 'technique' somewhat 'flawed'... (Maybe I should charge for that).. If any promoter cannot simply copy what a huge amount of businesses do well when it comes to marketing their own Speedway track then someone like me on a social media website truly cannot help them... The answer is out there, and has been through decades of a dwindling fan bases feedback... Promoters choose (as 100% is their right as it's their money) to ignore what's so obviously not fit for purpose and cracked on doing the same thing year in year out.. I actually did once meet up with a Promoter several years ago to discuss how myself and a few others could help him... As a business man myself, I was truly, truly amazed at his opinion of the way the Sport was being ran (ie everything was rosy in the garden) and gobsmacked with his business plan, (leaflets on car windscreens in supermarkets was about the best idea he had) He was a genuine bloke but honestly couldn't understand why crowds were not flocking to the sport and sat amazed with my feedback as to where the sport stood against other 'professional' sports and my thoughts as to why an ever ageing demographic were the only ones who attended regularly.. Needless to say, I didn't pursue it... Speedway needs marketing but on a much grander scale than the odd track doing it right as each tracks own business depends on the success of others too.. A proper, joined up National marketing plan is the only way.. Maybe one day the Promoters will finally realise that and put joint resources in to marketing and work together for the greater good so they all benefit from an upsurge in income... And maybe hell will also freeze over..?

A very fair and accurate assessment.. I can go to Cardiff with my lad and pay £38 for the both of us to sit and watch the GP with all the best riders in the World.. I can go to the NSS and pay £33 for the both of us to sit and watch a Premiership match made up of NL and Championship riders in the main.. Now, I predict that the level of racing we see at the NSS far out weighs what will be served up at Cardiff yet we will come away from the GP 'buzzing' about what a superb sport Speedway is.. Not possibly because of the racing but more down to the event and the way it is promoted and presented.. Speedway is a great sport when done well. It needs (and quickly) to start to do it well domestically in Britain.. I will attend Garden Fetes and Car Boots this summer better promoted locally than the Aces at the NSS... That cannot be right surely?... And if those who run the Sport cannot promote it to the level it warrants then they can never complain if their crowds don't meet their expectations... "Bring a Friend" truly isn't a cutting edge marketing plan, believe me....

You go to a restaurant and are first in?.. You get put by the window... You have the first table booking of the night?.. You get put by the window... A fruit and veg man makes his living from what's on display at the front of his shop, hence all the best fruit and veg is there for those walking past to look at. What you then buy in store may not be quite of the same quality but you already have a mindset of good quality so invariably don't even notice... As you say, people are sheep and will often follow what they are told is the latest fad or see what is successful and attacts a crowd, and then latch on to it.. With Speedway being one of this countries best kept secrets, it is simply screaming out for someone with real marketing skills to grab it by the balls and move it forwards. And with the right contract from the BSPA, given the huge potential audience to aim for who don't go, they could end up very wealthy.. British Speedway doesn't seem to even consider the TV meeting being beamed into tens of thousands of homes as a chance to showcase the sport. (And when you look at the BARB figures Speedway certainly more than holds its own, often outperforming more well known sports).. They seem content to portray the image of a crowd level of 'one man and his dog' and it appears even more embarrassing when Nigel mentions the 'good crowd in tonight Kelvin' as the camera moves around a crowd 'one deep' at best with many, many gaps in between.. For me, if you are not willing to drop the price and promote the event to try and grow your business long term then the least you could do is cordon off parts of the stadium to 'squeeze' the crowd together and put huge advertising banners blocking the empty terracing left behind in places. (Like UEFA do with the front rows of the Champions League).. Possibly it could actually be easier to get companies to pay to have their names emblazoned across tens of thousands of TV's in Britain in large letters, than attracting income generated by getting a crowd in? Sadly, virtually every time you watch a British Speedway League match on TV your heart sinks just that little bit more. .

Tom P. maybe? ...

It's not that Poole are getting hammered though.. Their team average hasn't dropped off a cliff, therefore the points money saved won't be too great I would imagine. Especially if some of the deals are not only driven by points earned... 500 missing punters at circa £15 a pop (after all other on the night revenue stream is added, and VAT removed), leaves a £7000 plus hole in the income... Not sure Poole will be saving that on reduced wages..

Pretty much the point I was making... Your crowds are very good (up against a pretty poor Sport average admittedly)... (And obviously when you are winning). The problem you have though I would suggest is Matt will budget his income on a certain base crowd level which he would guestimate being linked to success... The success he would have expected to be delivered given the team he put together.... I would suspect therefore his calculations were based on an expected better set of results, hence no 'breaking the bank' to bring in any World Class rider or any up and coming young 'four point superstar' which he has done so many times successfully in the past.... To Matt it has always been a business.. And quite rightly he cuts his cloth accordingly.. Those fickle fans staying away (which given their crowd numbers, Poole clearly have more than most), therefore cannot moan if he doesn't put his hand in his pocket and take risks with the overall business. .

Poole do struggle to maintain crowd numbers when not 'successful'.. It's more noticeable there though because they usually start off with a decent crowd to lose.. Most losing teams will usually drop a percentage of there crowd, say 15%-20% or so... Even more so maybe when that club is used to success? With Poole's usual following that level of % means a significantly high number of punters.. When my team were poor, crowds would drop from about 1100 to 900/800 meaning visually hardly any difference noticed. (A poor crowd to start with can hardly look any worse).. I would imagine going from say 2500 to 2000 would stand out quite significantly.. And worryingly deliver a big 'few thousand pounds hole' each week in the income that had been budgeted for...

Aren't they all Lisa-colette... Aren't they all...

The Aces are massive underdogs in this one... If they can get anything out of it it will simply be down to the genius of Mark Lemon... Especially with the track being so incredibly consistently consistent... It's a real problem at the moment having both bends very similarly well prepared and the straights having no bumps.. The rivers Irwell and Mersey may also be at high tide around the time of the meeting but due to being so far away they will have absolutely no bearing on the track. This will obviously result in the home lads having almost no home advantage as they will be confused as to which one of the plethora of lines to take... Can only see one winner... (Sounds a bit like a Poole thread this)...

Riders race all over Europe and the World to maximise their income so having two or three teams in Britain wouldn't look 'strange'.. That is not to say it shouldn't be the overall long term aim to have one man/one team.. The lads who ride for BV can ride for any other team in Britain who are not in their league if they so wish for me.. 30 matches at £1500 a night simply won't be enough to justify the cost of racing for many so D/U will unfortunately be necessary (maybe until 30 matches pays £3000 a night?)... There can still be clear demarcation between Leagues though, eg a No1 in the 2nd tier shouldn't also be a No1 in the top tier. And team strengths can facilitate that.. Bottom line is that there isn't enough riders of the right calibre to run so many teams without DU at present, but that should be the overall aim... A short term fix to improve the long term situation is just something we may need to accept..

And the deal particularly for those who ride in Poland's second div and below.. Ride maybe 16 times in Poland earning around £5k a pop. Meaning you earn £80k.. (But you may get canned after two or even one poor meeting).. Or.. D/U (with no fixture clashes) and ride at least four times a week over here earning circa £1500 a night on average in both divisions.. Around 60 meetings will earn you £90k... (But you must be available for every match). Time to get radical and look after No1.. Cannot compete with Poland so why bother? Ride on any night that brings each individual business their best income.. Enough riders would make themselves 100% available I am sure.. Maybe not all British either as I am sure plenty of Swedes, Danes, Germans, Italians, French, Aussies, Czechs, and Americans of a decent standard would be interested..

The self fulfilling prophecy of what we have today is clearly not down to the fans... Any failing business simply cannot blame the general public for not purchasing it's products.. For the past 20 years or so promoters of Speedway (British Speedway), have been given some fantastic constructive feedback from fans (and more importantly possibly) ex fans who still care.. 24/7 Social media has replaced the way a few fans moaned to each other at trackside, getting more and more disillusioned. Or writing the odd letter to the various magazines that do/did cover the sport airing their frustrations at what they were being served up.. As an example, on this thread 'guests' were mentioned as being in the sport for 40 years plus.. Now domestic League Speedway is shown regularly on National TV and Social Media is rife, you simply cannot get away with such nonsense if you are truly serious in trying to attract a wider audience and to entice them to a 'proper sport'.. Many fans, and ex fans, have said this for many years yet (as is their right), British Speedway Promoters have ignored such comments and continued with this policy.. It is irrefutable that the operating and business models of the past 15 to 20 years or so are not fit for purpose as year on year operating costs rise and income dwindles... And let's be honest, it 100% isn't the fans decision to run with these models... Nor is it their fault when they highlight, via their opinions, 'the bleedin' obvious'...

Egos... Simply too many egos... Some promotions heat up the salary market for every team by paying daft money to riders to try and win competitions, which because of the lack of credibilty of the Leagues, hardly anyone actually cares about... The end game of course is that when there are no teams left to ride against then that team will be the Champions of their very own League... Hurrah! Yippee! A Nation Rejoices etc etc etc..

You run a business in the entertainment industry and are having some success by opening on a Saturday night... Therefore, to grow the business further, you choose to close your doors on a Saturday and instead open them on a Wednesday night....? Who would have thought that this could possibly fail? Wow!..

The lower leagues were never really 'fine', they just ran less 'Mickey Mouse' meetings than the top tier did.. Then their heat leaders started doubling up every week, and with some being assets of top tier clubs, they started to miss meetings.. And with several also being foreign they started to ride in SEC, Best Pairs and GP and SWC/SON qualifiers at weekends which meant even more 'guestfests'... I watch the British Superbike Championship at Oulton Park.... I have absolutely zero affinity to any of the riders, in fact I am familiar with no more than half a dozen of them, in short, I just go for 'the entertainment'... If floodlit tracks were available and it was ran on weekday evenings I, and tens of thousands of others, wouldn't be there... BSB, F1, Moto GP, Test Matches in Cricket, Football, Rugby, Tennis/Golf/Snooker finals etc etc etc. All focus on weekends.. Why? Its obvious, most people are available to attend... The reason why people don't attend weekend Speedway in numbers now is not because of the race night, it's because many have 'given up' paying hard earned for a product with very little credibility... Most people living within earshot of the Speedway track adjacent to them have even less knowledge of those who participate than I do about the BSB riders, so its a huge market to engage.. Swapping riders every week if you get these people to attend though will quickly lose their enthusiasm.. Maybe promoters should actually try (even just once) to run the sport with credibilty and integrity, on nights when most people can attend it? If that doesn't work then so be it..

Just about sums EVERY league up Jayne..... I find it incredible to think the Promoters try so desperately to out do each other to try and win competitions that due to their own very own Operating Model are seen by followers of the Sport as worthless... Maybe if all Promoters made trying to bring credibility and integrity to the Sport as their key objective, rather than trying to win competitions hardly anyone cares about, the Sport would be in a much more healthier position...? If there are to be three Leagues then there needs to be a clear difference between them... Entry level, semi pro and then professional... With the financial renumeration to match their standing... Speedway in this country may just have enough teams able to run ONE fully professional league, it certainly doesn't seem to have enough to run more than that.. Sometimes I truly do think it is the egos of some Promoters which stands in the way of reality ever hitting home....