mikebv

There's still time for them to replace it with indoor Kabaddi...

The joys of being allowed to DU... One injury means two teams are short of riders... Mind you.. Not always the case I suppose... Sometimes seemingly one injury only impacts one of the two teams involved but not the other, meaning a rider is unfit to ride for one of his teams, but perfectly ok to ride for the other one.. Double Upping... All very strange...

Must admit I have enjoyed the differing opinions on this thread.. Makes the forum what it should be.. Open and honest debate.. And having read so much of what has been said and discussed around what a nightmare Rob Grant found himself in, then I really hope the fans of Newcastle all turn out to support the club this weekend.. It would be great if all those 'flouting fans' who go now and again, but still closely follow the club, all made the deliberate effort to all attend this weekend.. Be a good boost for the Promotion I would think... NB. As an aside, I do think that the 'pay at the gate', 'stand where you want' message needs to pushed massively by all the tracks on their social media pages. Still lots of confusion out there from lots of people as to "the covid rules", so Speedway should be 100% hammering home that message..

Oh Gleb.... Glad he managed to get up from that..

Who is the cameraman? Marty Feldman?

You would have to make some big decisions for the good of the sport.. Crowd levels should dictate structure in Speedway.. Not the whim of the promoters.. The sport (any sport), needs a stand out level to aspire to... For me, Glasgow and Poole look natural "top league" teams, with Swindon also if they ever come back (no smirking at the back there)... Maybe a phased approach will be needed , next season 8 teams then 10 etc? That would mean plenty of "decent" riders to cover absences.. The five year plan (another one), should end with one major "Elite" league and one around NDL+ to provide organic development growth to get into the top level..

You could still have a mean average per team meaning no team could pay out silly money to entice the best in every grade... And averages alone simply don't work... If they did then the top team wouldn't end up 40 to 50 points ahead of the bottom team which happens virtually every season. .. I still think the 12 teams, five men per team, made up of the current Preniership standard heat leaders, second strings/best reserves, is something that would tick so many boxes that the sport needs to fill.. 44 matches and six rides a night gives the riders plenty of money making opportunities and the fans some variety of teams as well as 10 riders on show of fairly similar standard. (No make weights to reach an average), so the racing should be competitive... It will also give the league some credibilty as those (no disrespect), journeymen riders (who make up the vast majority of riders) without jobs, can replace off form or injured riders.. A £5k a night salary cap means a 45 point average score would give each rider £811 a night at an average of £111 per point. Obviously the reality will be No1 gets circa £130 and No5 around £90... That £5k (which is £10k for both meetings), would mean 667 punters at £18 to cover the VAT as well.. 850 punters would deliver £15.3k and 1000 obviously £18k... Those who pay rent may need nearer the 1000 than those who don't to cover all costs, but they will still have their usual sponsorship to assist with this too Surely with a credible offering, racing on nights when you can get your best crowds, with 15 hears of riders of pretty similar capabilty, (and credibility), that at least 12 tracks could deliver 850 each as a mimumum? The Second tier could then be what it really ought to be and that is riders covering expenses and gaining experience, with those with capability, looking to progress to the top league... A No1 heat leader earning £130 a point, scoring 12 a night from his six rides, 44 times a season,would earn just over £68k. Not a fortune, but he will only be working seven months a year....

Got your broadband fixed then Geoff I see... Not a great service though to be honest... Went off last Thursday evening didn't it?

Oh he/she/they is/are here... Seemingly not too sure as to who to identify as though... The modern way I believe......

Which also means it becomes a 'plaything' that doesn't have to be sustainable in its own right.. Which can never be a good thing for collective organic growth... "Don't include Glasgow" was a comment re salaries further up the thread... Well you have to... The inference was I presume that they pay more, therefore, by doing so, they bring "heat" to the pay scales which then filters down to the rest, as riders expectations grow as the "going rate" increases.. Collectively the tracks spend literally hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds which is subsidised to a certain amount by hundreds and hundreds of thousands of income.. All to have a sport hardly anyone in the country knows about... Explain that one...

"Bland"... Truly a word that should never be allowed to be associated with something so high octane, fast and adrenaline fuelled, as Speedway racing... Yet your use of it resonates as very apt when describing what gets offered up on far too many occasions.. Speedway should be perpetually delivered in "colour" yet, sadly, varying degrees of "grey" seems to be its chosen hue..

Is that because they get 5% added to their score when guesting for someone at home?..

With Hans Christian Andersen as company rather than the Speedway rider...

It was the top league that I was basing my figures on not the 2nd Division, hence the 1200 crowd level requirement, and the average pound per point guesstimate. And on your numbers it looks like it could be more £100 a point on average in the top tier? Which lowers their spend.. Your figures which I am sure will be accurate, mean circa £60 average per point in the 2nd Division which means less than just £6k needs taking in to pay for two matches.. Wow, what a state the sport is in when at around £17 to watch a 2nd level match, it still struggles.. 'Happiness' used to be 40-38. Nowadays 'Happiness' would appear to be winning every match at home 46-44 in a last heat decider, and losing away 75-15... The positive for the sport is that at quite a few tracks, crowds during the pandemic have reached the restricted figure allowed (some being 600 or so in the 2nd Div), so maybe now the restrictions are lifted the crowd levels could become more sustainable..

Really? They must be paying out well under £5k a night if that is the case... One top league promoter mentioned circa £10k a night was the going rate, however that was a few years ago when a few of the major stars still rode here.. If they are paying out so little nowadays (must be much less than £10k for two meetings), then how come are they are losing so much? I would think though that if you want riders to ride in one league only, then you would have to pay them a reasonable amount, and if a track cannot afford to pay circa £11k from its home meeting to pay for the two it needs to, then there probably isn't any hope for the sport.. 1200 paying £18 generates over £20k a night which surely must be affordable?

The individual meetings invariably dont have much of a prize fund and riders race for "basic money".. Hence so many advertised to ride pick up illnesses just before the meeting and get replaced by someone local who usually isnt up to the same level.. Even the British Final itself being ran on a Monday night doesn't generate anywhere near the crowd levels it used to at Brandon on a Sunday.. For me, five man teams and a league of 12 teams riding home and away twice is the only way to deliver the priority requirements for the sport... ie Enough rides for riders and 'spare' riders to have as replacements without guest riders being used which will mean that so important credibility... With team strengths being around a 'Championship', level of two heat leaders and three second strings/best reserves.. Six rides each per night, 15 heats at an average of £120 a point per rider would mean £5400 paid out per night per team for an average 45 points scored.. A decent standard to watch too with no out of their depth lads.. These lads could then race in a lower league made up of the other teams left and "B" teams from any team in the top league who wants to run one.. A league that could use seven man teams to give the riders most in need of practice to improve the opportunity to do so..

Really stoked for yer mate...

The uncomfortable truth is that the sport carrying on as a team sport will never work. (In the UK).. When, as a fan attending, you have to agree to collude with the promoters that it is a 'proper' team sport that you are watching, (when you deep down know it isn't), then the sport has a major problem.. You can never ever build up that "emotional engagement" that a fan of a team needs to keep repeating their visits, (with many of those visits taking place through blind loyalty with absolutely no sense of actual reason other than they are "your team").... The sport has always been a bit "Mickey Mouse" with regards to the way it has been "self policed" in regards to its rules, however, in the halcyon days of the 70's "Proper Speedway Competitions", with nationally recognised sponsors, went out to millions every Saturday afternoon via one of only three channels that existed.. These didn't have any 'Mickey Mouse' rules and involved truly the very best in the world, with the bonus for the domestic sport of a young, exciting British Hero ie Peter Collins, who took on, and often beat, the best the world had to offer, and did it usually by giving them a head start which made the sport spectacular to watch.. The Britsh Leagues then fed off this coverage. You could watch PC getting interviewed at 4pm on ITV after wowing the TV audience, and then see go and him race at 7pm that night at Hyde Rd.. Unless of course he had flown to Germany to race their the next day in a long track meeting so Larry Ross guested for him, (but obviously you didnt know that till you had paid to get in).. For me, the sport has some major decions to make.. The team aspect only exists for two reasons... 1). With promoters often being fans themselves, it provides them with a "toy" to play with and some very small recognition. As they still (misguided that they are), see "their team" as being relevant and important locally.. 2) As many nights racing for the riders as possible, to provide them with the relatively (for the sports' size), a 'huge' return, which then helps them pay the 'huge' costs to compete.. In short, the world has moved on and UK Speedway hasn't, what you could get away with in the 70's you cannot today. And what is a trillion percent clear is that the operating model and business plan used over the past couple of decades in particular, simply isn't fit for purpose and in the year off due to the pandemic both should have been radically changed.. Unfortunately, it appears, no one in the sport felt that it was needed so I presume all must think what they put out is "ok"... That's the problem when you sit in Echo Chambers, you only hear what you already believe.

Agreed.. The reality will of course be somewhat different.. There could be a fair few team changes I reckon as those teams in Poland who cannot get into the play offs, or have no fear of relegation, start to jettison their overseas higher earners.. Never forget that winning the leagues over here is very prestigious so changes will have to be made.. And for the others, you might just break into the "Top Six"..

Woffy seems to be using Bomber's 'gating gloves' over the past few seasons...

Majic....

That's a shame...

Amazing from the World Champ... Freddies Polish Team must be really pleased with his performance tonight too..

Obviously... But to still do it so regularly after so many years is a problem I would say... Just throwing points away when it's hard enough to score them...

Doyle again...!!!. Amazing he still does this so many times...