waihekerich

he scored 16 points from his six rides, not sure who beat him

I think you're underselling PC's performances after returning, as he was a genuine heat leader from 82-85. He averaged around 9 in 82 and 83, over 10 in 84 and over 8 in 85. It was only 86, when an old injury was aggravated after Kenny Carter knocked him off, that his average declined to around 6.5. Obviously, nowhere near the performances of his glory days, but he was still a fantastic sight around Hyde Rd. He also picked up the world pairs titles back to back in 83,84 as well as being runner up in 82, and finished on the rostrum at the BLRC in 85. I feel priviledged to have seen him and Mort riding together so many times in heat 13 around the greatest racetrack in speedway History (and watching him and smudger ride together in 84 was always pretty exciting too!).

I'm pretty sure that falcace said he only saw Carter get beaten once between 81 and 85, hence why the matches from 79-80 (when Carter was just establishing himself as a heat leader) are excluded. I'm reasonably confident that I saw all the Aces matches at the Shay in that period too, and pretty sure only saw any aces rider (Collins) beat him once (and almost on another when PC was controversially excluded for unfair riding after passing him down the final straight). Certainly Larry Ross (who was probably the Aces' best around the shay in that period) and Mort never beat Kenny there. Thnik its a fair call that Carter didn't improve after 82 - but he was pretty damn good that season!

No, the qualifying round in 85 was the Overseas final, where he finished runner up to Shaun Moran after a run-off (you're thinking of the British semi final in 86 where Kenny had to win his last two races to qualify- the last world individual qualifier he would ride in.) Of course you can't say he would definitely have won the final at Odsal, but he would have had a damn good chance. He was in pretty good form in 85 - British Champ, 2nd in Overseas final, 2nd in world Pairs final dropping only 1 point, and averaging over 10 for Halifax in all meetings). Re: the 82 incident - I reckon the ref excluded the right man. Though the better option would have been to let the race go, or even award the points as the race stood as there is no way Bruce would have caught PC.

I was an Aces regular from 81-87 and have to say Kenny was the best of any visiting rider round Hyde Rd, only Gundersen would come close. I can't remember Kenny ever dropping more than a point in a league meeting and pretty sure the 81 & 82 BLRC were the only two he compteted in (scoring a maximum in both). I also saw him a number of times at the Shay and Odsal where he was equally dominant. I'd rank him and Shaun Moran as the two best riders of the 80s not to have won the world title.

Hi all, New to the forum, I was a regular at Hyde Rd from 81-87, before my family moved back to NZ. Followed this thread with much interest, thought I’d share my thoughts on probable GP winners if the system was in effect in the 80s. 1980: 1 Jessup 2 Lee 3 Peter Collins 1981: 1 Penhall 2 Jessup 3 Lee 1982: 1 Penhall 2 Carter 3 Gundersen 1983: 1 Nielsen 2 Gundersen 3 Lee 1984: 1 Gundersen 2 Nielsen 3 S Moran 1985: 1 Gundersen 2 Nielsen 3 S Moran 1986: 1 Nielsen 2 Gundersen 3 Knudsen 1987: 1 Nielsen 2 Gundersen 3 Ermolenko 1988: 1 Nielsen 2 Gundersen 3 Pedersen 1989: 1 Nielsen 2 Gundersen 3 Wigg Notes: 80: Jessup consistently the best rider, he and Lee well clear of the rest. Would have gone with Penhall for 3rd, but not sure he did enough in ’79 to qualify, so gone with PC. 81: Penhall indisputably the best rider in the world. Gone with Jessup 2nd based on his overseas final victory, and would have finished on podium in World final if not for engine problems. Would have gone with Carter for 3rd, but not sure he would have qualified from 80. Lee a marginal call, could have gone with Olsen, Nielsen, Knudsen or Gundersen (though like Carter not sure the latter would have qualified). 82: Would have been the most memorable two-way battle of the decade, in the end I think Penhall would have edged it as the better rider under pressure. 3rd spot I would have gone with Les Collins or Sigalos, but again don’t think either would have qualified from the prior year, so went with Gundersen to edge out Nielsen for 3rd. 83: Probaby the most open season in so far as its quite conceivable each GP would have been won by a different rider. But think that makes Nielsen a reasonably clear cut selection as GP winner due to his consistency ,as evidenced by his winning the Danish, Nordic and Inter-Conitntental rounds, 2nd in BL averages, 3rd in BLRC, and would have finished on podium in Norden if not for engine failure. Gundersen (2nd in Danish and Nordic finals, 3rd in Inter-comtinental BLRC winner, 3rd in averages, 4th in world Final) and Lee (2nd in British and Inter-continental finals, and BLRC and 3rd in World final) to join him on the rostrum. Carter, Sigalos and Sanders would be the others in contention, but don’t think any did enough to justify inclusion ahead of the three I’ve gone with. 84: Gone with Erik to win, as arguably his best year as he did the “grand slam”, and Nielsen not yet as consistently brilliant as he would become. Gundersen’s BL average significantly lower than Hans due to numerous tape exclusions (also in the BLRC run-off), but the new rules wouldn’t have applied to GP. Shaun Moran in third on basis of his inter-contintntal final victory (and he would likely have won the overseas final if not for an engine failure). Morton (who had arguably his best ever season) and King (Overseas champ and third in both world final and inter-continental final) would have come close to rostrum spots. 85: Think this would have been the best three way battle of the decade, with Gundersen, Nielsen and Moran battling it out (and Carter would have been very close too until hit by injury). In the end Gundersen winning the World Final and BLRC sees me go with him over Hans then Shaun. 86-89: This is where Hans really came into his own, and don’t think anyone would have touched him over a GP series. Erik would have been just a few points back in second and then a number of riders way back in the distance scrapping for 3rd (exception being 88 where I think Pedersen would have run the big two close). Even in 89 I think Erik would have built up enough of a buffer to hold onto second even with his tragic accident late in the season. Even in 86-89 I think Erik would have won as many or more GPs than Hans – he clearly has the better record in final run-offs, no matter whether you view them as having a 2-3/3-0 or 0-3/2-0 record in first place run offs (I think the latter is correct – Hans won no world finals in three run-off situations, Erik won 2 from 2). That’s not to say that Hans was no good in pressure situations – clearly as pointed out in detail on here he was. My view is that if I was picking someone to ride for my life in a must-win situation I’d pick Hans every time – unless it was a head-to-head for the World Title with Erik, in which case I’d go with Erik. And I reckon Penhall would beat them both! Cheers Rich