G the Bee

Under normal circumstances this might be acceptable, but bands of dark clouds were rolling overhead throughout the meeting and they were coming in quickly. As a result there was a clear threat of rain. Therefore, the meeting should have been pushed through. The time of year had no bearing on the speed of this meeting. There were only a few re-runs, mainly for a couple of unsatisfactory starts. I'm not saying have no support races, just that they should have been after the main event. You do not get the juniors coming out after every four or five heats in a normal league match but, rather, they come out after the main event. Get the main event over in 90 minutes, have an interval and then a second half. The rain certainly spoiled the end of the meeting for me. Bomber's winning time for heat 15 was over 66 seconds, nearly 5 seconds slower than his time in heat 13, so although the riders might not have actually complained, they were certainly affected by conditions. I think the last couple of heats and the final were pretty much non events, with riders tip-toeing round the track. It's frustrating because it could have been avoided so easilly just by looking at the sky!

Good to see some speedway on Sunday. Felt gutted for Chris as he was leading the final comfortably until the last bend, but these things happen. To be honest, apart from a second ride blip, he looked a cut above the rest of the field. I must say, I was quick to jump to the defence of the Newport promotion last week, but I was not massively impressed with the running of this years NYC. To me, the final two or three heats were spoiled by the track being wet after the 15 minutes or so of rain we had towards the end of this meeting. The weather was overcast throughout the meeting, with banks of cloud continuously rolling overhead. From our vantage point on the back straight, it was also clear that a band of rain was heading towards the stadium, yet no attempt appeared to be made to speed the meeting up. The meeting started at 1pm and yet, the final heat did not finish till around 3:20. People do not want to be standing around for over 2 hours in the middle of winter or get rained on if they can help it. It is perfectly possible to run a heat approximately every 5 minutes. Even accounting for re-runs etc it should still have been possible to finish this meeting in well under 2 hours. Priority should have been given to completing the meeting proper as soon as possible and the juniors and quads could then have raced after the main event itself. If the weather had been clear yesterday, then I could have accepted a drawn out affair but there was always a risk of rain.

I can understand your frustration, Sue. No-one likes a rain-off, especially when travelling a long way. We had got well past Monmouth ourselves before turning round having found out it was postponed. But (and please don't think I am having a 'dig' here) I must jump to the defence of the Newport promotion in this instance. The Newport promotion printed a weather update phone number on the advert for the meeting in the Speedway Star. Also, you mention that you looked at this thread before setting off, but the number was posted on this thread too. I appreciate you turned up to an empty stadium, but how many other times would you expect people to be at the stadium 2 hours after a rain-off (Vince says everyone left about 12:30). Like I say, I understand your frustration, but with the weather being touch and go, everyone who travelled must have appreciated they were risking a wasted journey. I know quite a few people who checked the forecast and decided against travelling. Therefore, to travel all the way from Weymouth without checking en-route that the meeting was still on was always going to be a risky strategy.

It would be unfair of anyone to comment on last nights meeting being a true reflection on Bomber's form. His second ride fall seemed to knock the stuffing out of him and I thought he looked quite lively in his first ride, passing Iversen and mounting a challenge on Sullivan. Perhaps this wasn't the case and he just had a bad one. It's hard to tell because I doubt you will hear any excuses from Chris's camp. It's interesting to note, however, that Chris did not ride for Vastervik tonight in their Elite League final against VMS Elit. I sincerely hope that his fall hasn't led to an injury. But if we are bringing up individual meetings....... Stead and Harris came up against each other in the Matt Read meeting last Friday and, whilst Stead beat Harris twice in the team event, in the grand final (the race that mattered), Chris flew past Stead on the back straight of lap 1 and won the heat by nearly the length of the straight. It was as convincing a victory as you will ever see. Now I know testimonials are hardly meetings to judge current form as riders are not going to risk injury by riding too hard and taking risks (Chris himself looked lacklustre in the heats) but I'm sure Stead and Chris, as racers, were both well up for the final, with Chris's performance almost saying "that's the real Chris Harris, catch me if you can" (he couldn't)! Bomber won in easilly the fastest time of the night but, for good measure, set the second fastest time of the night too!

I still think your argument has holes in it, but it's all about opinion isn't it. The problem with statistics is you can always spin them to suit an argument! You place a lot of emphasis about Simon riding as a heat-leader. However, I can see that Stead did not move into the number 1 role until July 1st. Up until that time he was riding outside a heat-leader position. All this time, Bomber was at 1 or 5. Bomber moved out of a heatleader position at the same time as Stead moved into one. For March, April, May and June Chris rode as a heat-leader and Stead did not. For July and August and the few weeks of this month Stead has ridden as a heat leader (but with injuries to Schlein and Nicholls so has Bomber for much of this time too). If anyone's average is skewed because of easier rides then it is not Bomber's. With two GP's in Sweden on permanent Swedish tracks would you not argue that form in Sweden was more relevant than form in GB (where a GP is held only once, and on a temporary track at that)? There are also many people who would argue that Sweden and Poland are stronger leagues than GB. They can make quite a convincing argument. Look at the Luxo Stars, VMS Elit and Vastervik teams as examples. Their teams are so much stronger than British Elite League teams. If you score well in Sweden, you have earned your money! I can't accept your WTC argument. Take the two meetings Bomber and Stead appeared in together and Bomber clearly outperformed Stead. At the risk of sounding harsh, if Chris had been dropped from the final too, then he would have had a better average (by the way I didn't think dropping Stead was the right thing to do)! You are right about conjecture though. Stead could have riden in the final and scored 0. Or he could have scored double figures. That's why, to get a fair reflection, you can only look at the meetings they appeared together in. My point is this. In your earlier posts you said that there clearly is no contest between Bomber and Stead for a GB place. We all have our favourites but I hope my posts have shown that if BSI decide to look at Chris and Simon, Bomber can very much contest Stead for a place. To sum up though, I think your point about next season being a season to early for both of them is spot on. There is no rush to make up the numbers. Both hopefully still have years ahead of them. Anyway, nice to debate with you. That's what the forum is all about. I'm off to Brandon now. Let's see if Bomber can beat Nicki Pedersen again and, more importantly, see if Bees can put in a good performance against Eastbourne. Should be a good one.

I appreciate you are a fan of Stead, just as I am a fan of Bomber.......and I do enjoy a debate. However I still think you're clutching at straws. For the record, I'll say that I don't think Bomber is the most improved rider this year. Olly Allen, for me, gets that accolade. But it has nothing to do whether Bomber or Stead get a GP call up. It's irrelevant. So let's ignore most improved rider arguments shall we? Yes, Stead's average in GB is marginally better than Bombers but I think Bomber will haul him in by the end of the season. Scores in the actual meetings between BV and Cov are taken into account when calculating averages. You can't count them twice. You also forgot to mention that in the meeting Chris scored 4 at Brandon, he only completed 2 rides and in the meeting he scored paid 5 at Belle Vue, he had just returned from tonsillitis and had barely eaten for a week (it's understandable that you might have been unaware of this though). However, by my calculations (discounting double point rides and including bonus points) in all meetings they have ridden in together Stead has scored 80 points from 39 rides, averaging 8.21 and Bomber has scored 71 points from 37 rides averaging 7.67. A difference of just 0.54 in favour of Stead. Are you really going to argue (especially when you take into account the mitigating factors above) that a difference of just half a point makes Stead a clear cut choice for GP qualification above Chris? When they have met on track, more often than not Bomber has beaten Stead this year. The GP is an individual event so this surely favours Bomber. You can't seriously argue we should discount foreign leagues. The Swedish and Polish leagues are certainly as strong as GB's and Bomber's average is two points higher and over 1 1/4 points higher in each league respectively. The form of Jonas Davidsson in Sweden does not mean that the Swedish League somehow lacks credibility. It means that Jonas Davidson is not bringing his Swedish form to GB for some reason. As for the World Cup, I am sure you are aware that Stead's average is only higher in the World Cup because he did not ride in the much more competitive final. To get a fair reflection you must calculate their averages in the meetings they both rode in! Nice try though! Steady, not Bomber, had a poor meeting at Cardiff in front of BSI. Steady, not Bomber, had a poor meeting in the GP qualifier in front of BSI. If you don't think Bomber is capable of riding at 1 or 5, take a look at his recent form. Since Chris has held the Bees captaincy, in the absence of Rory and Scott, he has averaged 10.83 a meeting. The only reason Chris moved from the 1/5 positions was that he had a slow start to the season, which was made worse through illness and mechanical trouble. This is partly why Rory overtook him in the Bees averages. Fair play to Rory, he's had a good season. To all intents and purposes though Chris has been fulfilling the second heat leader role for Coventry since Rory's unfortunate injury and you won't hear too many complaints about his performances from the Bees fans. I feel bad about criticising Stead because I like him. We need both Bomber and Stead in the GP in the years to come. I just don't think, at this moment in time, he is as good as Bomber. You clearly do, but, aside from the fact that over the course of the season (so far) Stead's form for Belle Vue has been marginally better than Bomber's for Coventry I don't see that you have any other evidence to back up your claim. If, by the end of the season, Bomber does catch Stead in the GB averages, what other reasons could you give for Stead's inclusion ahead of Bomber in the GP's?

You make it sound so clear cut, when the actual grounds for including Stead ahead of Bomber are shaky at best. If we are going to analyse statistics, let's look at the wider picture. Most improvement is totally irrelevant. Olly Allen has improved hugely this year, but he is not going to get a GP call up is he? The only thing going for Stead is that in GB (and GB alone) he is averaging more than Bomber. According to the stats in Speedway Star, this is by 0.32 per point. Hardly a huge amount. Based on Chris's current form, I would not be surprised to see him close that gap in the next week or two. However, let’s look at meetings in which they have ridden against each other over here. In heats against each other (Cov v. Belle Vue, Belle Vue v. Cov, Champ of GB and Cov. v. Poole) Bomber has beaten Stead 6 times to 4. At Brandon the other week, when Stead was a guest for Poole, he didn't get near to Chris. But this only tells half the story. The SGP is not held solely in Britain and internationally, Stead's form is not nearly as good as Bomber's. Look at the statistics from http://www.sportowefakty.pl/statelitserien.htm and http://www.sportowefakty.pl/stateliga.htm. In Sweden, Harris's average is over two points higher than Stead's (7.89 v. 5.53) and in Poland it is well over a point higher (6.00 v. 4.71). It's interesting to note the riders who Bomber is ahead of. Lindback, Loram, Zagar, Nicholls, Iversen, Hamill and Lindgren are all averaging less than him in Sweden. Add into the equation Stead's performances in front of BSI. He had a poor meeting in Cardiff this year, was outperformed by Bomber in the GP Qualification meeting and was dropped from Team GB (albeit harshly) for the World Cup. Indeed, whilst neither rider qualified from the Grand Prix Qualifying Meeting last month they did not achieve the same result at all. Bomber was a genuine contender for a GP place. What Bomber achieved in this meeting and what Stead didn't was, in front of BSI, Bomber showed, as he did in the World Cup, that he is capable of performing on the international stage. With his inclusion at Cardiff, Stead has been given more opportunities than Bomber to shine on the world stage this year and has not capitalised on them. So, looking at the wider picture instead of one set of statistics I agree, there is really no contest. Bomber every time.

So Nicholls gave Andersen a nudge coming off bend 4. We see riders nudging each other all the time at this level. It's the world championship and riders are going to ride hard. Compared to the AJ/Pedersen clash in the SWC it was tame! However Hans rode down the middle of the straight and was leaning off his bike into Nicholls entering the corner with his elbow stuck out at practically a right angle into Scott. Replays also show that going into the corner, Scott was ahead. If you ride down the middle of the straight, leaning into another rider there is a chance you will come off. If Hans had rode a natural line down the straight and not leaned into Nicholls, Nicholls would have made a clean pass and Hans would not have come down. Therefore Hans falling was entirely his own doing. Considering the precedent the referee had already made in the meeting with the Lindback and Pedersen exclusions then Scotts exclusion was clearly the wrong call.

What a great day. I can still remember the bungee jumping now! There is no denying that Rickardsson is a true great of the sport, whether you like him or not, but even if 4500 people turned up to his farewell meeting that is not a good crowd for a rider of his standing. Look at Ole Olsen's farewell. The same line up as the world final and the queue for the turnstiles stretched through the car park almost to the road (and there were a lot of turnstiles in operation then). You could barely move in the stadium. I was 7 years old at the time, and remember the crowd clearly so imagine how big it must have been. I suppose people will say "You can't compare a meeting today with one 20 years ago as crowds were bigger then" but that doesn't stop people comparing Cardiff with Wembley does it! The difference was, apart from the awsome line-up, when Olsen retired, British speedway was loosing a genuine superstar. And people came from all over the country to show their appreciation. That is not the case with Rickardsson as he doesn't ride over here and has flitted in and out of British speedway at his convenience. That said, I'm convinced that if Rickardsson had put out a GP standard field, held it at the right time, and marketed it thoroughly a much bigger crowd would have gone.

The post by 21CH is spot on. It's got to be said that over the two meetings held at Smallmead over the World Cup week, neither provided a great advertisement for Reading Speedway. The final was ok but the racing was not as good as it could have been and the less said about the track for the race-off the better. I'm sure the track staff did their best, but the track for both meetings fell short of standards which should be expected for a World Championship event. Blue groove. Way too slick. Only one genuine line (though I conceed that there were a few outside passes). I appreciate that people are saying it held up to 25 heats of speedway without rutting up and still being nice and smooth, but a permanent track should! At Coventry we regularly have a full second half after the main meeting and by the end of the second half the track is still as smooth as a billiard ball. I also appreciate that it was hot on both days and that on Thursday the riders had to practice in the morning, but Rybnik had to deal with similar circumstances on Sunday and look at the fantastic meeting we got from there. It has been said that Reading was the back-up choice for these meetings as BSI really wanted them at Coventry but they couldn't be fitted in around the stadium's prior commitments. What a shame because if it had been at Coventry, and Gareth and Terry were allowed to prepare a track without outside interference, the Bees management would have provided these meetings with the setting and track their status deserves.

I think the whole issue with rolling comes down to a number of factors with the main ones being poor refereeing and TV schedules, with referees reluctant to call races back too much in case the meeting runs over time. You will often hear riders saying: "My clutch dragged me towards the tapes" or "I rolled down the rut I was using towards the tapes". To me, the only solution is zero tolerance. If a rider rolls and the race is called back for an unsatisfactory start the rider should be hit with a significant fine. Same if a rider touches or breaks the tapes. I reckon that if you were to give it a few months and a few high profile fines you will be amazed at how still riders will be at the tapes! By the way Lupus, I don't think Billy has forgotten how to start. I just think he is not as good now as when he rode for us!

I seem to remember Jason Crump getting a lot of stick after the end of the first SWC in Poland in 2001. I have a feeling that things were thrown at Jason during the Australian celebration parade after the meeting. So this is not an instance which is just related to British fans (although I appreciate that does not make the actions acceptable). It's disappointing to see posters on here claiming to say they are ashamed to be British because of the actions of a huge minority. How many British fans were in the stadium and how many actually caused trouble? Surely the actions committed reflect the nature of the people that committed them rather than the nation they support? Hypothetically, if a group of Coventry fans committed the same act on the riders of an away team I would not say I was ashamed of being a Coventry fan myself. More that I was ashamed that the individuals in question call themselves Coventry fans.

I agree with that Chivs, yet on another thread people seem to be saying that the Aussies would not have been in a position to finish on the rostrum if Crump hadn't scored so many points so he (Crump) can't be criticised for going for his maximum. As far as I'm concerned, it's a team event and Jason might have been better concentrating on what was better for the team in that instance.

Of course I appreciate that, but my thinking was that Mark has a couple of seasons left in him yet. I would hope that by the time he retires, Bomber and Stead have firmly established themselves on the international stage alongside Nicholls and Richardson and one of the youngsters (perhaps Bridger) are ready to make the next step up. It can be done. Look at Lindback a couple of years ago.

People are also free to read posts properly before responding. Didn't I say: "It's a free country, and people are free to support who they like"? I personally could never support another nation as I would see it as an insult to my own country, but, as I said, people are perfectly within their right to do so if they so wish.

What's worrying is that the Aussies look a spent force which means that unless the Brits can up their game, Denmark look set to dominate for the next few years. The Aussies have Adams, Sullivan and Wiltshire all at the wrong end of their careers (and Crump is also no kid anymore) and a big gap then to the next set of riders coming through. I don't think all is lost for the Brits. Nicholls and Richardson are still the right side of 30! Bomber and Stead are only mid-twenties and are gradually improving year-by-year. I think that if we could just get a reasonable replacement for Loram we have hope. Whether it will be enough to compete with the Danes (or to a lesser extent the Swedes), only time will tell. I'm not convinced about Poland. They always look a different team away from their own tracks.

I would like to add my congratulations to Denmark. They were the best team on the night. For me, what's disappointing is seeing so many forum members clearly supporting Denmark. I know this is an international forum, and a good few members are Danish, but it is clear to me that quite a few British members have decided to support Denmark. I'm proud to be British, and no matter who my favorite rider was, would never dream of supporting a foreign team. It's a free country, and people are free to support who they like, but I feel a little sorry for those who do not feel the same way as I do.

Always nice to see Lupus lining up to have a dig at a Bees rider. Whether Chris came down too easily or not is probably only a question the rider himself knows the answer to. But lets face it, it's not the first time a rider appeared to fall off easily in a race against Hans Andersen this year is it? Those in glass houses..........

Yes Ross. It all boils down to that self same competition a few years ago: Perhaps if Hans had tried the technique he used last night (to stop the outside run of a quicker rider) in a certain race at Poole, perhaps he would not be so unpopular with certain fans! My own opinion is that Hans tried to be overly aggressive and messed his own race up. If he had worried more about what he was doing and less about what Nicholls was doing he might have won the race. I also think Scott went to shake hands but then pushed Hans' hand away. It made me wonder at the time whether anything was said between the two to make Scott change his mind. If Scott never intended to shake hands he could have simply blanked Hans or rode round to the pits before him. I must confess, I generally take criticisms of Scott from Ipswich fans with a pinch of salt, especially where Hans Andersen is also involved. I think many of them do not seem able to forgive Scott for leaving them at the end of 2004.

Wouldn't be an Ipswich fan would you? Bomber has only been to Smallmead once this season and scored paid 11. Hardly a poor showing. I'm not sure about Louis' guest bookings at Smallmead (I presume he has had some judging by other comments on here), but I know he scored 14 when Ipswich visited. However, three of those points were from a double pointer. Take those away and you've got 11. Don't see much of a difference myself. Theoretically if anyone should make way at Reading it should be Stead as he only scored 6 at Reading when Belle Vue rode there. However, both did their job tonight. They got us to the race off so they should be allowed to get us to the final. We've got to look to do the best we can for the present whilst building for the future at the same time. If Louis was streets ahead of Stead and Bomber I would say bring him in. The fact is, he isn't, so he shouldn't be! I thought that perhaps Louis should have been included today instead of Richardson but tonight's result proved that Middlo's got the balance right. As for Danny Bird. I'm sure what happened with him at Reading was unfortunate this season, and I'm sure he is very quick around Reading. However, I don't believe he has got the necessary experience of riding at the top level. There is a world of difference being quick in the Premier League and racing at World Championship level. If we had bombed out tonight then perhaps Middlo could have justified making some changes and taking some chances. However, on the back of tonight's performance, bringing Danny Bird in is a risk Middlo does not need to take.

I agree with the comments posted above about the doube point 'Joker'. It adds nothing other than a general feeling that an injustice has been committed when double points are scored. Yes we were treated to a great ride by Gollob when he was on the Joker, but if Poland had gone through tonight then it would have been a travesty of justice. They were the third best team on the night by a mile. The meeting was no more exciting for its inclusion. The fact the Aussies and Team GB were so close made the meeting exciting and it would have still have gone to a last heat decider. I know that some would argue that Speedway is entertainment, and the joker adds to the entertainment value of the product. However, it's also a sport and in sport, teams that are not the best on the night should not be given extra assistance to win. If the powers that be are genuinely concerned about entertainment I would suggest there are other areas they could focus their attention.

Hardly an inspiring line up in my opinion. Would have been better going for the usual individual meeting with a nice big prize to encourage good racing and the big names. Great for the Poole fans but there is absolutely nothing to tempt me to travel from the West Midlands to Poole for this. How many others from all over the country will be thinking the same? Would have expected a line up something like this: Rickardsson, Crump, Adams, Sullivan, Andersen, Jonsson, Nicholls, Gollob, Holta, Hamill, Hancock, Loram, Wiltshire, Bjarne Pedersen, Nicki Pedersen, Lindback. A mixture of current and ex GP stars with a few riders who don't usually ride over here and enough Poole fans to ensure a good 'home' turn out. The advertised line-up is no better than that of a normal testimonial meeting. In fact, the line up for the Sean Cracker was much better in my opinion.

Looks like everyone was correct. Just had text from Bomber confirming he is through. Great news for both Chris and Simon Stead, showing that they can do the business on the world stage given the opportunity.

Then presumably you would have had him in for Chris Harris as well. I would have been tempted to take Louis as well, though not at the expense of either Bomber or Stead. On the back of his poor form recently, Richardson should have been the one most in danger of being left behind. However, I think it's good to see some sort of stability in the team and it's not like the omission of Louis has turned us from a team of world beaters to a team of also-rans. I don't think keeping 4 of the 5 from last year is a bad thing. Nicholls, Bomber, Stead and Richardson (assuming he turns his current form around) should be the backbone of the team for the next few years. Perhaps this thread should be moved to the SWC section of the forum.

There's no way that Olly Allen should have been left out of the 12. His form for the Bees has been first class this year. He top scored for the Bees at Oxford on Wednesday (beating home rider David Howe on the track and also in the scoring stakes with paid 15 as opposed to paid 7). On Friday, for the Bees against Reading, once more he headed the Bees scores (along with Bomber this time), beating Gary Havelock in the process (not that I have any issues at all with Gary's selection). My gripe is that Edward Kennett, Danny Bird and David Howe have all been picked ahead of Olly. Perhaps Neil Middleditch, who we all know reads this forum, would like to give us some indication of his thought process here because, whilst I stand to be corrected, as far as I can see he hasn't gone on current form. The way Olly has turned his form around this season is terrific. A call up to the GB squad would have been a suitable reward. I'm gutted for him that he has been left out.