G the Bee

I suspect, if this is the case, it will set a precedent for the current issue with Ben Barker and Coventry/Birmingham. In that case, if Birmingham want to use Barker, Birmingham will have to buy Barker too. He is a loan rider required for a third year. Tell me, Steve. What was your opinion on the Meidzinski, Swindon, Poole dispute last season? Were you happy for Poole to use a rider who you wanted to use yourself and just pay the loan fee?

It's not about who works during the night, it's about who works during the day but can't get to Somerset as a result. Your average office worker in the midlands who finishes at half five on Friday is not going to get to Somerset by 7pm. I appreciate that many are off that week as it's bank holiday week, but many more are off at the weekend! I wouldn't usually presume to answer for him but I suggest SCB was saying that it's bad enough standing around in the cold on a winter's afternoon, never mind a winter's evening. Let's face it, once the night draws in it's quite conceivable we could be standing around in zero degree conditions! Like I said, I'm probably going to go anyway but I feel sorry for those that would have loved to have gone but are prevented from doing so because they can't get to Somerset for a 7pm evening start. Perhaps there will be another winter meeting elsewhere, as stated earlier on this thread. Agree with everything you say about the 20 ht, 16 riders format. I attended every NYC at Newport, and the one at Poole, from 2004 until Newport's last staging and felt the Poole one was the best of the lot, partly because it followed the 16 rider format. I didn't bother with the 2012 NYC because I felt the lineup was poor. I was told by 'Main Man' on this forum that this was simply due to rider availability, despite the fact that Poole put together a cracking line up in 2009. It will be interesting to see what type of line-up Somerset can put together. In my opinion, to maximise the chance of a good crowd at Somerset, they need to get some riders to tempt fans down from the Midlands. Some Coventry, Birmingham, Wolves or Dudley riders would be a good idea. The likes of Ben Barker, Scott Nicholls or Danny King. What a shame Adam Roynon is injured because you have both Dudley and Bees fans who would have travelled to have supported him.

My thoughts exactly. On a Friday night too, when many will be back at work. Very strange decision if you ask me. One of the other advantages of this being on a Sunday afternoon meant that many people from all over could travel to this without worrying about work commitments etc. If the line up is decent then I will go, but I'm not working that week.

I can see it going further than that. Go back to the time of Olsen and Mauger up until the late 80s/early 90s. A rider knew that he had to race in GB to make it at the highest level. That is no longer the case and has not been for a while. Gollob and Holta were the first of the modern generation to prove you did not need GB (althougn Gollob did a couple of seasons over here) to succeed at international level. I can see a time when a young British rider who truly has desire to be the best abandons the UK league network at an early age and goes straight to Poland and works his way up through their league system. Learning the language, learning the set-ups (which we clearly lag behind on) making the contacts etc just as Mauger, Olsen and countless others who followed them did. Just like, I imagine, Emil Sayfutdinov did.

But lets not forget that the Danes didn't just throw random yougsters into the competition. Both MBJ and MJJ have proved that they have the ability to beat the worlds best consistently on the continental tracks. We don't have a youngster anywhere near that level. The biggest problem for GB is that only Harris and Woffinden have stepped up to anything near international level since Scott Nicholls and Lee Richardson made the step up over ten years ago. Tonight showed that once we move away from the confines of British tracks, we have two international level riders and nothing else. If we had two other riders at the same level as Harris and Woffinden it would make all the difference. We would have been there or therabouts tonight. The fact is, we shouldn't be relying on a rider like Nicholls (who is clearly past his best) to score big in these events. Just like the Danes do not need to rely on Hans Andersen any more. Over the last ten years, we have been let down by the inability of riders like Stead, Howe, Allen and, more latterly Kennett, Barker and Bridger to make the step up. Whether this is down to a lack of ability/desire/commitment who knows. Bridger won't move away from his comfort zone at Eastbourne. He tried it for a season, struggled, went back the following year and has stayed there this year. Barker spends half his time pinching proverbial sweets off kids in the PL. Kennett had a poor 2010, is having a dire 2012 but had a good 2011. The problem is, the 'silencergate' events have, in my opinion, put a huge question marks over those results. I would love to see Roynon and Auty in the team next year but they really need to get themselves fixed up on the continent first.

This is the new Belle Vue stadium which they have not even started to build yet. To be honest, I'll believe the hype about the new stadium when I see the construction of it begin. We are a year away from the 2013 SWC and we've not even been given a date when the building of it might start. I'm not being negative or down on Belle Vue. I truly hope it is built. However, how long have we been hearing the line 'It is going to happen...'?

Or you would give specific instructions to the person(s) doing the negotiating on your behalf. I would imagine Sandhu is happy to delegate this side to Colin. I'm not sure how involved he has ever been with the actual negotiating side of rider contracts. I suppose there was a minimum amount he was prepared to accept. At the end of the day, none of us know the contractual deal between Sandhu and Mick Horton so we are all just speculating.

When Belle Vue signed Rory Schlein this year they did it from the current promotion (of which Colin Pratt remains a constant presence and has done for the last 15 odd years). I would assume any situation with Shamek would be no different. Why on earth would you suggest the BSPA acquired the Bees assets? I understood Mick Horton has leased the Bees from Mr Sandhu in a similar way to how Allen Trump did in 2008. The BSPA didn't acquire Bees assets in 2008. Why assume that assets automatically revert back to the BSPA if promotions change or they are not included with the sale of a club? Chris Harris, I seem to remember, was signed by Coventry from Jim Lynch's promotional company even though he was not the actual Peterborough promoter at the time.

Thanks for reply. Always interesting to hear an inside story!

But why? These are guys you used to sponsor. Why the huge change of opinion? You must have sponsored Hans Andersen for nearly 10 years. Bomber you backed last year, but now you seem to hardly ever have a decent word to say about either of them. Not having a go. Anyone who pumps their money into speedway as a sponsor has my full respect. Just curious.

Who would you recommend if you were still involved with Chris?

When I click on the video box, a box with Danish writing comes up. What does it say? Presume I need to accept something?

Got it on Sopcast. 56947

My AVG does not like that link!

Funny. The TVP link is denying me access for this one despite working fine for the last meeting.

Well I'm just watching heat 1 of the Czestochowa Gorzow meeting on http://sport.tvp.pl/zuzel/enea-ekstraliga/wideo/enea-ekstraliga-polonia-azoty-tauron/5062326

I clicked on the sport.tv.pl link on Soccer Live because I was getting volleyball when I clicked on the Sopcast link. It is the Czestochowa meeting though.

I agree, it basically means a rider can just plod through his heats and still have a really good chance of making the semi. Why don't they do top two to the final and 1 semi? Would make more sense as this would eliminate 50% of the field (like a GP does).

Of course, Newport is the meeting's rightful place. However, when Poole took the meeting over for a year they raised the bar, both in terms of rider quality and the numbers of riders taking part. That level has never been maintained in my opinion. I always go to the NYC but this year, unless one or two of the last four riders announced makes it worth the 200 odd mile round trip and £50 it will cost me to attend the meeting (with all the other associated costs involved apart from entry), I won't bother, simply because the line up, as announced so far, is, frankly, unispiring. If I remember rightly, it was known well in advance of the date itself that Poole were holding the meeting in 2009 which must have made the logistics of arranging the meeting easier (riders making sure equipment was held back for the meeting, or got ready in advance etc). Compare that to the situation this year when the first confirmation about the meeting was at the beginning of December, less than a month before the scheduled date. If riders (and I know it is an 'if') are only now being contacted to ride, I am not surprised that putting together a line up is proving problematic (as Main Man alluded to in his recent post). Perhaps I am a 'keyboard critic', but I have tried to make a fair posting. I also note that my direct question to Main Man, where I asked is it really rider availablilty or the money on offer that is making it difficult to attract riders, went unanswered, despite the fact Main Man has since posted on the thread. I will be disappointed to give this meeting a miss so am hoping that some of the last 4 riders tip the balance the 'correct' way.

I have not missed a NYC since 2003 and have to say the one at Poole was an absolute cracker of a line-up. I understand there must be difficulties in putting this meeting on but, at the same time, wonder why Poole were able to put together such a strong line up 3 years ago but Newport never seem to be able to. Be honest, Main Man. Is it more to do with the money these riders are being offered to ride rather than their availability? I assume the 12 man format is also being used. To be honest, and I hate to say it, but I can see me staying at home for this one. Lets be controversial here. From a fans perspective, perhaps if the Newport promotion cannot put together the sort of exciting line up which reflects the fact that this is the only meeting in the close season, then perhaps another promotion (if any are interested) should be given a chance.

Again, Philip, thanks for your reply - an earlier date is not possible due to availability of the track. Fair enough. Of course it will be possible to work out fixtures - lets not forget how quickly fixtures were arranged when Cov and Peterborough came back into the fold. But, on the other hand, and for the sake of debate which, ultimately, is what this forum is about. Could it be argued that this event (if it happens) is a further example of how the BSI/IMG run events are further impacting on domestic speedway which, it could be argued, is the very lifeblood of their own product. I seem to recall Speedway Star being against the GP's way back when they were first mooted. Was this because of the disruption posed to the domestic calendar? First it was 6 GPs. This impacted on the Saturday tracks, but they worked around it. Then the amount of GP's went up and the SWC was introduced (which took away a week of the domestic season in the height of summer). Saturday EL racing was now not a viable option for many tracks. Now we see a GP taking away GP riders for a further week (not 1 or 2 nights like the European events do) right as the season is due to get underway. Where is the line drawn? What if next year or the year after an Aussie date is introduced after the NZ event.

Thanks for your reply. So dialogue has clearly happened with Poland. Has it with the UK? It clearly will affect the European commitments of GP riders if they ride in GB! Emil, Holder, Ward (assuming he's in), Bjarne P, Nicki P, Lindgren (will he qualify or get a wildcard or neither), Bjerre, Harris (if he gets a wildcard - not beyond the realms of possibility). All of these are GP riders for next season over here at the moment. Could we see Lindback or Jonsson returning? Especially if fixtures are reduced. Will Nicki or Emil be back? The fact is, we don't know how many gp riders will be over here. It could be 'not many' but it could be more than that. Who could have forseen Emil or Nikki riding over here a year ago? Perhaps it's just me, but I'm not sure I would want to go flying half-way around the world just as the season starts. Then again, riders are more used to jumping on and off planes than I am! Like I said, I welcome the extra GP, especially in a country outside Europe, I just question the timing. An early to mid-march date would make more sense to me, as it would cause less disruption to the European fixtures but obviously I don't know the wider picture.

An interesting point Keith but I wonder whether your opinion would be the same if you supported an EL team. A hypothetical situation. Imagine the GPs are 20 odd years ago. You are now told you can't have Erik Gundersen until early April at the earliest because he is needed in NZ from the last week of March. Because Erik is World Champion he has also been asked to go over the week before to undertake promotional activities so won't be available for your press and practise day or pre-season challenge matches either. Of course, your argument 'who wouldn't want to compete for the possibility to be World Champion?' is correct, and riders signing up for the GP will have to go to NZ if it appears on the calendar, but I wonder how many of them will be happy about it.

I really don't see how that is relevant. We are not talking about communication between leagues and their fixtures but between BSI/IMG and the leagues in the UK and Poland. The season dates in all three major European leagues are well known. The UK season starts in mid-March and has done for decades! This isn't just a normal, extra GP. It is one which could tie up a GP rider for as good as a whole week. I think it is relevant to point out that the GP product is reliant on league racing to supply and develop their riders. How many GP riders have not progressed through the league system in one of the three major leagues? I suspect also that for many GP riders, their league fixtures subsidises their GP ones. Is it therefore reasonable to assume BSI/IMG would at least consult the leagues who, ultimately, supply and develop one of their key resources for their product (the riders)? For all I know, this dialogue could have happened. I am just asking the question. I welcome the extra GP and the broadening of the series and am a huge fan of the GPs. I just question the timing that's all. For what it's worth the UK does consult (or at least take into account) other leagues when deciding fixtures. How many Elite League fixtures take place on Tuesdays and Sundays?

Perhaps this is a knee-jerk reaction, but... I imagine this would have huge implications for the start of the UK and Polish seasons (last year the Extraliga started on the first Sunday in April). Is it safe to assume the season in both leagues might not get going until the second week of April as a result of this GP? I would imagine for a GP on a weekend in NZ, you might as well write a GP rider out of fixtures from at least the Tuesday/Wednesday before (in this case, the last week of March). The riders would also need a couple of days to get back and rested. I imagine Monday fixtures (at least) would also be out following the GP (the first few days of April). You might as well write off a whole week of EL fixtures for those riders. GP's on the other side of the world are much more complicated to deal with in comparison to European events, especially in terms of getting equipment to and from the GP. I seem to recal the Australian event being unpopular for that reason. How long will it take the riders to get their equipment back from the GPs? I personally have no problems with the UK season starting in April, rather than mid-March as it seems to at present, but a GP fixture on this date would also rule out racing in the first week of April for Monday night clubs too! A week (or preferably two) earlier would be a much better option in my opinion. Obviously there is then the issue of a large gap between GP dates, but would this really be a huge problem? I wonder if BSI/IMG have consulted with the UK and Polish authorities on this. I would like to think they have, but wonder if this is the case. Perhaps Mr Rising, with his contacts at BSI/IMG might be able to fill us in?