G the Bee

Alan, that's the article which prompted the recent discussion on this thread and led to the statement on the Bees website yesterday.

Last. Beaten by Latvia and the USA. Disgusting. But there was an air of inevitability to it. The fact is, we were (barely) a two man team tonight. On a night where other EL second strings such as Fisher, Woodward and (although he is number 1 for Bham at the moment) Doyle raised their game, Bridger and Barker were found wanting. All too predictably in my opinion. I do feel for Middlo to an extent. The fact is, we have one world class rider now and one other who (without wanting to sound cruel) whilst still able to mix it has been on the slide for three seasons now. However, he did no favours with his team selections over this week and surely it is time for him to fall on his sword. He picks Kennett, to obvious consternation from the masses, but then shows no faith in his selection during the meeting. He picks a rider for the future in Cook, then promptly drops him. He brings in two other riders who croak big time against opposition which was hardly (with the exception of a couple of riders) the cream of international speedway. As I said, I feel for Neil a little, and certainly any new manager is hardly going to have an abundance of world class riders to pick, but perhaps it's simply time for a new broom so that perhaps, for once, Team GB might punch above its weight like a number of other riders did tonight.

Starman, you are clearly not for real. I give you a reasoned argument to all the points you raise and you still say I have not read your posts. So just to make it clear for you. I (and I suspect most posters on here) do not believe we either had the strength in depth to compete with the Danes or were ever likely to beat them tonight no matter what team we put out. However that does not mean that we cannot criticise what was clearly a poor decision by the team manager to include Edward Kennett. Do you understand now? You have spent the last I don't know how many posts defending Middleditch but when I ask a reasonable question about how he could possibly justify the selection of a rider in poor form domestically and limited international pedigree you reply with "Why don't you ask him?" Brilliant!

Will you stop telling people to read your 'above' posts. It is clear from people's responses that they have read them! Why do you keep bringing up the fact that we don't have the strength in depth of the Danes? No one is disputing that. However, that doesn't mean we cannot criticise what was clearly a dire team building decision from Neil Middleditch. You make the point that you are sure that Neil knew Eddie was in poor form but took a chance on him performing. That alone is hardly a defence for Neil's management skills! Eddie is in pretty poor form domestically at the moment and his international pedigree is limited. On what grounds, therefore, could Neil justify his selection over the other candidates in better form?

The problem is, the Premier League has become a safety net for stagnating young riders. They get easy pickings and as a result, especially as most double up, I suspect make decent money from the sport. I understand a great deal of this money, especially if the rider has ambition, will be reinvested back into the sport by the riders, but that misses the point. Riders like Cook, Worrall, Barker and Auty would be better advised to try to gain a place in a Polish team. Sure, that might be easier said than done, but perhaps the riders would initially need to ride in the second or third tiers of the sport over there until they have proved themselves. However, in my opinion, only by riding the big, fast continental tracks will they ever be a force on the international stage. If a rider is serious about making progress in the sport to the international level, he must ride in Poland.

In that case, it was a pretty good lookalike in Greg's/USA's pit crew tonight. 'Spin Doctors' goatee beard and all!

That's not the point. You mentioned that Neil picks the riders he thinks can do the best job. My point is that Neil's opinion on riders who can do 'the best job' was massively removed from what, I suspect, the vast majority of posters on here believed. And the posters on here were proved correct. Without wanting to be harsh, if Neil really thought Eddie Kennett was the best option for the final place in the team (especially over Worrall, Bridger, Barker and King) then I personally have no confidence in him as our national team manager.

I can't agree with that at all. You must be on a wind-up. I doubt there is a poster on here who does not recognise that GB does not have the strength in depth of the Danes and the Poles. However, it is only those two nations who do have strength in depth. The teams Australia, Sweden and Russia fielded shows that once their top few riders are unavailable, they are also struggling to match the Poles and Danes. I suspect both Poland and Denmark could have put their reserve teams in both meetings and still qualified directly to the final! You need to put your Poole bias to one side. Middlo made a huge howler in picking Eddie Kennett. Most posters on here believed this to be the case, and they were proved correct today. I'm no particular fan of Danny King but I suspect that had he been included he would have picked up solid points tonight. That said, I would probably have gone with Worrall on his home track. Again, I suspect he would have done ok against the Americans and Swedes. I think we need to move on from 2004 now. It was 9 years ago.

Frankly I don't blame them. They only have one channel. Why should speedway (a minority sport) get preference over football (friendly or not)? I bet their viewing figures for the football will be better than they would have been for the speedway. What's the problem anyway? Just Sky+ it and watch it later 'as live'. That's what I'll do.

Someone needs to read my post properly. I think I mentioned the recent Swindon v. Bees meeting. He is also clearly a better rider than he was last time he rode for Swindon. You state you believe Edward will finish above Zengi in the averages. I suspect you might be right, due to Kennett's excellent start to the season. However, Kennett was signed on an average 3/4 of a point higher than Zengi and I suspect that at the business end of the season, Zengi will be the rider in better form. As someone who spent years watching Kennett at Brandon my opinion is that Zengi is by far the better rider. I don't think Kennett would have stepped up to the plate in that heat 15 against Iversen the way Zengi did. That said, In terms of team building, I suspect if Zengi had been included in the Robins team it would have been in place of Morris and not Kennett anyway. But returning to Kennett, if you think Edward is better than Zengi then great. I, and I suspect a vast majority of Bees fans, would be over the moon if a swap deal could be arranged. I wonder how many Swindon fans would be as enthusiastic?

Got to say, and, of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I think Swindon made a huge error in not including their asset Zengotta in their team. I think if Swindon had signed Zengi rather than Morris, they really would be a powerful outfit, even accounting for their poor reserves. I know Zengi was poor at Blunsdon last week but, watching him week-in week-out at Brandon, he really is a class act. It took him a couple of meetings to get the hang of Brandon but he has the beating of anyone around there now. I'm sure he would have weighed the Abbey up again after a meeting or two. The way he held off Iversen in our last but-one home meeting in a high-pressure heat 15 was the kind of mature ride you would have expected from a 9 point rider, not one signed on an average of 5 and a half. He was brilliant again last night. I would go so far as to say, along with Smolinski for Birmingham, Zengi has to be considered one of the bargain signings of the season. I certainly think he is a better rider than Morris and (even though he had a great start to the season) Kennett also.

You are practically making out that the streams are a type of 'Robin Hood' charity, taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Perhaps Sky should start a scheme like this themselves and cut out the middle men. "If you can't afford to buy our coverage, just let us know and we'll give you SkyGo for free! After all, we would never have had any money from you anyway?" Perhaps next time I fancy a day by the seaside, and money is a bit tight that month, I should just hop on the Virgin train from Birmingham to Bournemouth for free. After all, the train was already going there and because I can't afford to buy a ticket, Mr. Branson would not have got any money off me anyway, so he hasn't really lost out. Technically I'm not depriving Virgin of a single penny as I cant afford to travel by their train. Think I'll try that line on the ticket inspector if he asks for a ticket. However, I suspect that many of those who don't pay for Sky Sports have simply chosen to spend their money elsewhere. How many 'streamers' will still enjoy their holiday in the sun this year or, perhaps, have the latest smartphone on a £30 a month contract? Obviously neither of us know, but I think you understand the point I am making.

All very well and good. However, it depends whether the argument about whether people should feel comfortable watching live streams of EL speedway is a legal or moral one. The fact remains that if everyone had the attitude of 'I'll cancel my subscription and watch the streams' then there would be no Sky Sports at all and no live sport on the tv other than terrestrial. And we all know how much coverage speedway gets on terrestrial tv! In my opinion there is a difference (at least morally) between watching a stream of an event that is, to all intents and purposes, unavailable in this country (ie the Polish League on Sundays) and watching an event which is available to all and sundry providing they are prepared to pay for it (the Sky Sports, Eurosport and Premier Sports coverage). As far as I'm concerned, those in the UK who watch Sky Elite League coverage on live streams (and GPs and Swedish Elitserien too) are freeloading off those that put their hands in their pockets and pay the subscriptions.

Ridiculous statement. I watch my team live but am hardly likely to travel down to Poole to watch Birmingham this week. However, I am interested in watching it on TV despite not supporting either team. If we were to take that attitude to its logical conclusion then there would be no televised sport at all!

Scoop up what? The Elite League. Well, if Sky were to pull out and Eurosport were the only viable alternative then you bet I would be happy for them to pick it up. Especially when it means I could dump my expensive Sky Sports subscription. It's ok to go on about Sky but they passed up the opportunity to show the GPs this season and, as a result, many suspect they will not pick up the EL rights when they are up at the end of the year. I suspect, had Eurosport not been interested in showing the GP's we would be faced with looking towards the internet to view our showpiece event. Should Sky not renew EL coverage next year, if Eurosport put in a bid for the Elite League then I would welcome this with open arms. Anyway, if they did, perhaps they would simply employ the same company Sky use to produce their shows. To be honest, I thought Eurosport's coverage of Cardiff was far from 'amateurish'. In my opinion it was better than anything Sky produced from the Millennium Stadium in their last 12 attempts. Sure, it's essentially the world feed they used, but their relaxed yet enthusiastic style, operating from trackside rather than a stale 'studio' (a box within the stadium) came across very well. I think certain people live in this dreamworld where they see speedway as being a sport which broadcasters are queuing up to televise. To all of the posters having a pop at Eurosport, perhaps they might want to provide a list of viable alternate tv companies who are lining up to televise our sport (at domestic, GP or international level). We do need to be grateful for what we have got because, I suspect, next year we will have significantly less.

Some people like nothing more than a good moan. We get a channel that has shown minimal interest in speedway before showing a meeting which is provided above and beyond what speedway fans in the UK have traditionally received through Sky in seasons gone by and people are still unhappy. Sure, we missed the first five heats and the first lap of another, which is far from ideal, but I suspect Eurosport themselves will look in to ways they can avoid this happening in the future. Perhaps the meeting should have been shown 'as live' with the gaps between the initial heats cut out until the recorded transmission caught up to the live feed. People queue up on here to have a pop at Pearson and Tatum yet the commentators provided last night were also not good enough for some. Eurosport have clearly tried to do something about this though with bringing Scott Nicholls on board. However, like any skill, commentating on the race will take him some time to get used to. That said, if I was one of the tried and tested speedway commentators working for one of the companies that produce DVDs for the British league tracks, I would be putting a show-reel together to send to the head of motorsport at British Eurosport and offering my services for free for the remaining UEM meetings to get my foot in the door! At the end of the day, I saw last night's meeting as a welcome addition to the speedway coverage I get to watch at home. The on-track action was ok. Not the best meeting, but not the worst either. These things happen. Not every meeting is a classic. The segments with Gollob/Hampel in Torun and Emil's manager were worth watching and the fact they were translated did not really detract from the overall message. Eurosport is a European broadcaster so it has to be expected.

I don't think they have. The meeting at 6:25 is a re-run of the SGP at Cardiff according to the planner. Very strange

Well it's all subjective I suppose. But my post earlier shows there was plenty of 'racing' with passes in almost each heat. But you talk about extortionate cost and then say you spent 700 quid! Well two of us took in the pairs at Somerset, a hotel room, a day in Cardiff and the GP and probably spent around a quarter of that. Including food, accommodation and petrol. That's the thing. BSI don't expect you to pay top dollar. The cheapest ticket at Cardiff is £29. Did I get value for money for my £29? Absolutely. I think Cardiff is excellent value when compared to other speedway events. The Premier League Pairs, to watch Premier League standard riders in a stadium which cannot begin to compare to Cardiff, was £20. And, whilst others may beg to differ, I thought the Pairs was a poor meeting this year compared to those I have seen before. The ELRC, at Swindon, is £25. To stand on a grass bank, open to the elements, in October! A seat, in the Millennium Stadium, to watch an 'event' rather than just a speedway meeting, is only £4 more! If people chose to spend £29 or £200 on their ticket for Cardiff, they are going to see the same meeting. And we all know, even with perfect track conditions, you can never guarantee a classic meeting.

Yes. And it's clear that mistakes were made with the original shale. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world and mistakes happen. We can go on about it being unacceptable that this was the case for our showpiece meeting but it won't change anything. I thought the salvage job performed on the track produced a track which, whilst not ideal, was by no means the worse track I have seen speedway performed on (including GP's for that matter) and served up a pretty good meeting. Certainly the track, whilst not up to the same standard of those over the last few years, was no worse than plenty of others we have seen at Cardiff. Look at clips from 2007 and see riders really battling the track. And look at my earlier post to see how many passes there were after heat 10. One or two riders were beaten by the track, the rest were giving it a good go.

And if you read my earlier post you will see that I felt Tai's accident was very little to do with the track. If Tai's incident had been like Lindgren's in the final I would agree with you but the two incidents were worlds apart. Whether there was contact or not, I feel Tai would have rode Lindgren's inside dive out if Nicki had not, by sheer chance, have happened to have been in his way. It was Tai T-boning Pedersen which caused him to fall.

But riders falling off due to hitting ruts happens all the time in speedway meetings week in, week out.. Sure, it's not ideal but it happens in speedway. Lindgren just got unlucky. Other riders in the other 22 heats rode through those ruts without any real issues other than a bit of lifting and bouncing about. If the track had been genuinely dangerous we would have seen more than that one incident.

As far as I'm concerned, some of these comments about the meeting and the track itself are way over the top. In 22 races, there was only 1 crash which was definitely a direct result of the track conditions. Lindgren's in the final. Watching the replay's I think Tai's crash was simply due to him being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was moved over by Lindgren's move up the inside and, whilst he picked up a bit of grip then, would still have probably rode it out if Pedersen had not been directly in his way. So he hit Pedersen and high-sided. Had Pedersen, by chance, rode a different line, I don't feel there would have been a crash at all. There were passes in almost every heat. I've just watched it back on Eurosport and typed this as I watched. Ht 2 - AJ passes Lindback bends 1 and 2 Ht 3 - Greg passes Lindgren bends 3 and 4, lap 1 Ht 4 - KK passes Emil bend 4 and into lap 2. Close race between all 3 riders. Ht 6 - KK breaks track record. AJ passes Dryml bends 1 and 2, lap 4. Ht 7 - Emil passes Lindback bends 1 and 2, lap 2. Good race between Emil and Gollob for 2nd. Ht 8 - Harris passes Vaculik bends 1 and 2 and back straight, lap 2. Ht 9 - AJ and Lindgren trading places end of lap 1 and bends 1 and 2, lap 2. AJ and Lindgren inside Haris bend 1, lap 4. Harris between both bend 2, lap 4. Lindgren past AJ bends 3 and 4, lap 4. Ht 10 - Tai inside Hancock back straight, lap 1. Emil inside Hampel same place. Tai past Hampel bend 4, lap 1. Hancock inside Hampel into lap 2. Hancock and Tai trading places for laps 2 and 3. Ht 12 - Iversen inside Pedersen bends 3 and 4, lap 1. Ht 13 - KK passes Hancock into bend 1, lap 3 Ht 15 - Hampel passes Dryml bends 3 and 4, lap 1. Ht 16 - Emil passes AJ bends 3 and 4, lap 1 Ht 18 - Haris passes Auty into bend 1, lap 2 Ht 19 - Gollob passes Pedersen because the injured Pedersen is struggling to turn bike on the heavy track. Ht 20 - KK passes Lindgren bend 3, lap 1. Lindgren passes KK bend 1, lap 2. KK and Lindgren neck and neck until Lindgren pulls away into bend 1, lap 3. Semi 1 - KK passes Pedersen bends 3 and 4, lap 1. Holder passes Pedersen into bend 1, lap 2. Semi 2 - Emil passes Hancock bends 3 and 4, lap 1. Emil passes Vaculik as Vaculik hits a rut. That seems like a decent amount of passing to me. And these passes were not (except on the occasions I have mentioned) due to other riders hitting ruts and losing control. I just watched Harris winning in 2007 on YouTube. The track was probably worse than last nights. I agree that the track should not be rutted for an event like the GP, and clearly mistakes were made. However to say the GP was ruined and the track dangerous is wide of the mark as far as I'm concerned. The track was tricky, granted but, apart from one or two who, I suspect, were beaten mentally by the conditions the riders were able to race and pass on it. I had a great day, enjoyed the meeting whilst I was there and also enjoyed the replay on Eurosport. They knocked Sky's GP coverage for 6. Nicholls, in particular, was excellent and Kelvin being involved on screen before the action started was a nice touch. No flashy studio, just 2 people standing at the side of the track. Who needs a flashy studio with the Millenium Stadium as backdrop? Perhaps I just have low standards!

I think the new columns by Kelvin Tatum are excellent. Really knowledgable insight, as you would expect from a rider with such a long involvement in the sport.

It would appear Barker injured himself colliding with the fence in Heat 1. Fair enough. He (and the BSPA) are lucky Nicholls scraped through though! That would have given them a right headache as, no doubt, they would have been forced to chose between Barker and Stead. Barker and Stead seem the obvious choices though I feel that Jason Garrity has good reason to feel disappointed.

When did he pick that up? He completed all of his rides at Bham last night and had a decent enough score. Did he have a fall at Sheffield which does not appear on the updates site?