LionsDen

I'm sceptical too because surely Leicester Speedway Ltd is a private business and shouldn't qualify for grants to improve facilities which would be there to increase it's profits. That would be morally wrong in my view and not what such grants are for. Think they need to fill all the pot holes in Leicester's roads before anything else! Someone also suggested the mud hills can be used for acoustic barrier purposes! What is the wooden purpose-built acoustic fence that goes all the way around the 'stadium' for if that's the case then? Are the hills now so high they're making that obsolete? Whatever, some fanciful ideas being put about it seems but the reason the mud hills are there is for one reason alone. They are the inevitable consequence of a deal between various construction companies who need to tip their muck at a cheap rate, and Leicester Speedway Ltd who continue to desperately need to raise extra revenue. How that whole situation plays out is between DH and Leicester City Council I guess, though as other people have alluded to on here, I know various people within the council aren't at all happy with what's happened aesthetically to the former Beaumont Park.

Tempted to say, "told you so" but that would be smug... Seriously though. A very accurate description and happy to agree with you for once.

As a matter of interest, did you think what happened post meeting on Saturday was "positive" mrcts? Sounds like the racing was, which is very positive, but the tantrum directed at the riders has annoyed, disappointed and upset a lot of people, even including committed fans such as Neb. And most importantly, it's deflected attention from what sounded like a great night's entertainment for once. This season, in the public domain alone, he has slagged off the fans in the programme, had a row with one of his main sponsors and now had this very public slanging match with his riders too! You can defend him, as you obviously do, but let's face it, he doesn't make it easy for you does he? On the other hand, he continually makes it really easy for people to criticise. Maybe if he kept his head down for a bit and allowed people like Glyn Taylor and the table topping team of riders to just get on with their jobs it would all be a lot more 'positive'. EDIT: Just see your post in the Lions v Rebels thread and accept you're not an apologist for the promoter. However, my point is a general one about Leicester Speedway and how it's the promoter himself who is making it hard for people to comment positively.

Strange that people can post defending the promoter's dummies out the pram toddler tantrum of Saturday night. He DEFINITELY went about it the wrong way. But then again, he always does. Whether he pays wages or not, behaviour like that is unacceptable in any walk of life and only serves to create hostility. It certainly doesn't make the people on the receiving end listen to whatever point he's trying to make. These are grown men doing a dangerous job and they aren't ever going to take kindly to being ranted at by someone behaving like a spoilt child who only ever raced a push bike. As usual it was not thought through, extremely babyish and sadly, true to form. When will he ever learn that respect has to be earned? You don't get it simply because you pay wages. No doubt the riders will continue to ride for the Lions (for now) but when faced with that kind of childish rubbish they had no choice but to make a stand, otherwise he gets away with it and will do it again whenever he can't control himself because of a score line that he doesn't like. It's sport. Sometimes you lose and he needs to get over it, not throw his weight around like some playground bully. Well done to them. Wasn't the racing meant to be great on Saturday? A shame that's getting overlooked somewhat purely because the promoter has scored yet another spectacular own goal.

From both sides?

What an ignorant post! And insults aside, whether you like Sam or not, and I accept that's your prerogative of course, at least get your main fact right. Sam was not "disposed of" at all. It was his decision to finally walk away from Leicester Speedway after his efforts to resolve the issues were met with silence and non-communication. That said, he really did not want to leave having invested so much time and effort into the project, and having found various financial backers who were willing to back Leicester, but his role had become untenable given the situation he was faced with. That in itself is a long story. At the time I must admit his departure from the project really disappointed me. I liked Sam and enjoyed not only his company but also the wealth of speedway knowledge and contacts he brought to the project, something that we hadn't got on board until his arrival. Those of us remaining on the organising committee were told one thing but having made the effort to find out from Sam himself shortly afterwards I fully appreciate why he felt he had no choice. There are always two sides to a story and Sam has kept his counsel for the most part on this subject. He certainly doesn't want dirty laundry airing on a public forum and I respect that. Maybe he's saving it up for part 2 of his autobiography . I certainly hope so. For me personally, Sam's departure was the beginning of disunity creeping into what had previously been a united effort and the 'committee' gradually became an inept entity, only serving to do all the dogsbody work ahead of the opening. Opinions and suggestions mattered little, even from people who had played such a huge role in the whole project such as Ken Naylor, leading to his eventual walking away too (though there's a much longer story behind that too). I appreciate all this is history now but the reason I say this is because it appears to me that the issues that started back then still prevail today, and are behind a lot of what is causing problems three years down the line. Just an opinion.

Can't believe some suggest the fans should pay to alter the track! The fans have contributed plenty, both before the stadium opened and plenty more since. And what would they get in return apart from what they should have had in the first place? The track is the responsibility of the owner, and the sad thing is, if he'd just listened to what people were saying when the track was being put down there would not be this problem. He thought he knew best - and he still does. I don't think anyone can come up with the perfect solution because ultimately it's his business and all the decisions come from him.

Must admit, when I heard that on the radio last week it did make me smile. Whilst it's a very praiseworthy run of wins, it's not really comparable to anything earlier than the re-opening in 2011. Those of us who aren't 'newbies' will remember that the original Leicester Lions were a top flight team from when they started in 1968 right through to Blackbird Road's closure in 1983, a period when it was a much tougher and more competitive era for speedway in the UK. This 'record' is only relevant over the last 2 and a bit seasons and should be quantified with "at second tier level". Really it's just a nice bit of PR 'gloss' from Corporal Jones. That said, I guess there's no harm in fans taking comfort from it in the face of so much criticism surrounding the promoter, the track and so on.

A very interesting read - and amazingly committed research Mick (haven't you got any work to do!? ) Many contrasting opinions - and it's notable that a large number of those names don't bother posting any more. Have they walked away, or simply got fed up of the debate? Whatever, there are too many in agreement for the poor track to be a non-issue.

I agree. However, the problem is there are three rather large pieces of drainage dug deep into the ground on each of the two bends so shortening the straights will necessitate digging them out again and replacing further back. No doubt this is a costly and disruptive exercise, and presumably the reason why it's only been a minimal effort so far. Beaumont Park has a strange combination of great drainage and crap track.

I wasn't for one minute suggesting it will happen, just what should happen if people want this ongoing track debate to eventually stop. It won't go away whilst people are unhappy. Being too stubborn to admit he got it wrong doesn't make it go away either. And it's not just "a few people on here" who moan about it either. There's a large number who came to see speedway and now don't bother going any more.

I assume you mean primarily the track. Are you not surprised though? Surely the reason for the ongoing discussion is because nothing has changed, save for a cosmetic appeasement that has affected nothing. Only DH seems to belive there's been an improvement and frankly, it's now time for his blinkers to come off. It's the single biggest talking point on here and amongst virtually every fan I speak to because the track is always at the core of any speedway business. Speedway, like all professional sports, is in the entertainment business. People pay their hard-earned money to be entertained and if they're not, eventually they will stopping handing over that money, whether they are supporters through the turnstiles or sponsors contributing extra revenue to the club. It's not good enough to simply say "if you don't like it don't go" and to keep on with an incessant "you're boring us" retort. If enough people decide to stop handing over money there will be no business to be had, and no speedway at all here, which after 28 years of waiting would be a crying shame. The people making these points aren't doing it because they want to have a pop at DH. They're doing it because they demand a decent speedway track and are concerned about how it can be sustained in the long term without one. The attendance on the Edinburgh meeting was a perfect example of people weighing up their options and choosing not to go. The value for money ratio is all out of kilter at Leicester and only the loyal head-in-the-sand few seem to think nothing's wrong, and their number will definitely dwindle further as time goes on. The debate about how it happened has been had over and over so I do agree that's no longer needed. However, what is needed, and somewhat urgently I would suggest, is a properly executed solution to the lack of racing entertainment served up at BP. The only other way this repeated track debate will end is for people not to care anymore, and that will be a sorry day for everyone who loves speedway in Leicester, whatever side of the fence you're on.

It keeps happening because it brings in much needed revenue. But, as has been pointed out previously on this forum, the council aren't overly happy about it because as you say, it doesn't add a great deal to the aesthetics, particularly when compared to what the original approved plans looked like. That park must be several feet more above sea level than it was when the lorries first came in. Don't know about 5-side football but he could always open a dry ski slope if he keeps this up!

Sorry but this "understanding" is incorrect. The planners were and are Beaumont Sports Complex Ltd which is run by one person - the same one who runs Leicester Speedway Ltd. It was his call how to split the land up and designate the areas required for the football pitches and velodrome that never were, not the councils. They simply lease him the whole site, which is why he is allowed to tip all that muck over the areas he isn't developing! The design of the site was down to him.

I'd have thought watching some racing was essential because with all the love-in cliques that exist at BP you're more likely to be gatecrashing someone else's craic!

Such a shame BritishSpeedwaySliders.com didn't design the real track shape. This is much better!

re the tile of the thread. Surely the track IS a toilet? And I'll say this for Darcy, as much as a car crash as it was, at least it was an interesting listen, as opposed to the usual mind-numbingly boring stuff that Corporal Jones regularly comes out with.

Loving the humour that's now been applied to a Leicester thread. A refreshing change! Tsunami. I can't ever recall £6m being quoted anywhere so what made you post that? If you lived down here you'd know that £4.5m was the figure regularly published in the Leicester Mercury in all their articles on the new speedway, 5-a-side football and cycling facility called The Beaumont Sports Complex. Presently, with it being solely a speedway track surrounded by a mud heap, the reality was/is a fraction of that.

£6m? Hard to spot the jokes from the serious bits in this post so I'll assume that was the former and not the latter.

Talk about making the story fit the ending! We'll just have to beg to differ then Volty. To be honest though, it doesn't actually matter whether you or me think it's the fault of the council, BSC or even Charles Ochiltree for that matter. The bottom line is (as Hazzman pointed out earlier - and he should know) certain elements within the council are not at all happy with what has happened at BP. The issue facing BSC Ltd is in making them happy again. PS: I'm really happy that they have a new logo. And very nice too. Illustratively it's a sort of cross between Leicester Tigers and Eastbourne Eagles and I think it works well. See, not all bad when it comes to discussing matters relating to LS! For obviously reasons I'm pleased the previous one is now consigned to history.

No sticks. I was merely pointing out that it wasn't the council's responsibility to develop the site financially as you and Barrow Boy seemed to believe. Your post makes a sweeping assumption that it's all down to council incompetence. Be nice and easy to simply blame that given what most people think of their councils (and I'm no fan myself). However, I would contend they shouldn't have had the need to safeguarded these proposals anyway. They were submitted and subsequently dealt with in good faith. Whatever, that's all history and getting something sorted going forward is between them and BSC. Let's hope they do because that site is a right mess now and it's causing concern as Hazzman pointed out.

Mick. Just want to correct you and Barrow Boy on this issue. The council were NEVER, at any point, part of the funding for the development. It was all meant to be funded by private money. They would never have agreed to spending public money on it! The council's role was simply to approve planning and then subsequently arrange a lease for this public-owned site with Beaumont Sports Complex Ltd, who these days is one person, the same one as is Leicester Speedway Ltd. The exact terms of that lease, including commencement dates for any development, is what the issue is now, along with the appalling current state of what was formerly a very nice green public park. The non-speedway parts of the development were meant to be privately funded but no-one ever signed up to it, not before or after planning approval was achieved. Even the speedway had no money back then! The tipping arrangement, which came about some 9 months after planning was approved, is what raised the money for the track to be built. In the absence of any other sports organisations being involved, BSC Ltd are now faced with having to sort something out to appease the council and I think that's what he would be talking about when he says taking over the responsibility for it, but as the MD of BSC Ltd, it's his responsibility anyway as far as the council are concerned.

Sounds like he's in the right company.

This is what I'm hearing too. There's all sorts of stuff going on within the council. There's a feeling they've been hoodwinked big time - and now they're beginning to realise that. That site is about more than just speedway. As regards the track, whilst I'm personally sceptical that these changes will make the difference necessary, everyone just needs to wait and see. It needs to be seen over several meetings in different conditions before anyone can pass judgement.

Oh ok. Sorry Tina. Misconstrued your point in that case. That said, it's a bit silly if certain riders think there's no connection between their money and entertaining the paying public. If support dwindles because of the poor spectacle on show then inevitably the promoters will suffer financially and won't be able to pay them the money anyway. Speedway, like all other sport that people pay to attend, is in the entertainments business. I'm sure Leicester's crowds would be much bigger had they put in a decent track in the first place. That first year was always going to be vital in attracting new people to the sport - and there were big numbers to start off with. They came, they saw, and sadly, they didn't come back. Just the expected hard core now remain. The average crowd is way down on the original numbers expected and save the odd race, the consistently poor quality of the racing has much to do with that. Trying to alter the shape two years after it opened is a real case of the horse bolting and closing the stable door several hours after it's gone! Such a shame. Now you get supporters, and sponsors too, who were willing to give it a chance openly stating that these track alterations are the last chance saloon. Should never have come to that. The entertainment, much more than the results, will be vitally important this season.