Vincent Blachshadow

There is a perfectly good way of deciding 'league champions', a way that has been used in sport for well over a hundred years (and, in the world's top spectator sport, still is) - accumulating more points than every other team and finishing top.

No such thing in the top sporting league in the country - football's Premier League. In the lesser divisions maybe, but not at the top. It takes a season to win the Premier League title, not a couple of lucky matches at the end after finishing third or fourth.

Quite. But until its the majority that play by a proper set of unambiguous rules, there's little to be gained by keeping to the minority that try to play it fair.

Danish Webmaster's version here:- http://www.holsted-speedway.dk/media/2015/Heatskemaer/SGP09-2015.pdf

Danish Webmaster's version here:- http://www.holsted-speedway.dk/media/2015/Heatskemaer/SGP08-2015.pdf

He's not the captain, he's the figurehead - at the front of the ship but no influence.

One of the best finishes in EL history was made by the t/r and the team that legitimately used them was reviled for it. Does that mean the t/s was better or that artificial score adjustments are unfair?

Yeah, I know of one who's started going in the last few years too. Unfortunately, those eleven don't make up for the couple of thousand or so who have stopped going this century (for whatever reason).

And there was me thinking this is a public forum where any member is entitled to contribute on any thread without asking permission from the poster they're replying to. And my initial post on this thread was in answer to a post claiming TWK must be the only person to have left the sport because of a rule when I know at least two others.

Oh, if only everything in life was that simple!. I actually though the first year or two of the Elite League had decent crowds. Maybe not massive but enough for fairly comfortable survival.

Financial reasons. The t/r is cheaper than the t/s.

For heaven's sake, get off of this t/s v t/r fixation. One or two, maybe more, have left because of that specific rule but others have left because of their dislike for the guest rule (it was ok at one a meeting, but three and r/r may be over the top for them), riders able to ride for two or three British teams......As for 'not worth worrying about', well, ask the promoters if they're happy with current attendances. I'm a firm believer that you're more likely to re-convert somebody who used to go than get somebody with no current interest, And on your point about bringing back the VCR, I have already posted that the VCR has been superseded by superior products. 70's, 80's and maybe 90's speedway, in many peoples' views, has not.

Yes, ok, there had been a downturn in attendances from the absolute post-war heyday but, for a few years, these attendances did stabilise at a far higher figure than they are now. But from the relative stability of the 70s and 80s these attendances have dropped by thousands to the current few hundred at your average meeting. I would imagine there are several reasons why these attendances have dropped but dislike of current rules can't be discounted as a reason. It would be interesting to know how current forum members were introduced to speedway, because, among the people I chat to at meetings, most were introduced by relatives (parents usually) or friends who attended. If these relatives or friends are lost to the sport then the introductions won't happen and crowds will decline further.

Really? How exactly? I've been saying all along people make choices and, back to the thread, (some) are leaving speedway because they no longer feel the sport is for them - people can embrace the changes (keep going) or ditch the product (stop attending).

Yes, they do. And people have the option to embrace the change or ditch the product.

I'd buy all of those if the one I had needed replacing or I wanted to renew but the newer versions weren't up to much or not to my liking. The products you mention have been superseded by superior products. Speedway's changes however, to some, have been to the detriment of the sport.

You don't go somewhere for several years then decide to stop because things are the same as when you started going and got hooked, surely. Logically, folk are more likely to stop going if things DO change and aren't to their liking.

...to when thousands attended the average speedway match rather than the few hundred who attend now. Weird that. But yes, it's easier for the promoter to ask the few who go now why they still go rather than the countless thousands that no longer do.

And that typifies the attitude of those 'running' the sport. A man knows whether or not he loved the sport, there's no allegation involved. If he walks away from something he loved because of some of the crazy rules that shows the depth of his feeling for the particular rule/s not that he didn't love the sport in the first place. And he isn't the only one, either. I know a couple who've packed up going after following the sport for forty years because of the combination of daft rules and unfair and inconsistent administration. But, then again, after following the sport world-wide, making a 180 mile return trip just for home matches for twenty years, attending their local tracks as well as following a particular team, sponsoring riders now and again they were told, on this forum, that they hadn't been speedway supporters at all!

Danish Webmaster's version here:- http://www.holsted-speedway.dk/media/2015/Heatskemaer/SGP07-2015.pdf

I'd say that's because millions of folk around the country play darts so have something in common with the players they're watching.

How about a T/R has to have at least one opposing rider behind him to score the double points?

Wouldn't a fan go to their team's meeting and record the GP? It's not as if one has to look away from the telly and mute the sound during the News so as not to get the result of the GP.

If you really bracket the off-side rule or the forward pass rule (for instance) with a team fielding two, three or four (of 6) riders, borrowed for the night from rival teams in their own league then we really must agree to differ. As you post, folk you introduce are happy watching the bikes go round. Folks I introduce ask questions.

No, I haven't said speedway fans are not coming because of the silly rules. I have said some of the rules make it difficult for some potential newbys to perceive speedway as anything other than a Mickey Mouse affair (7 riders v 6, a particular rider turning out for more than one team in a given league on successive days for instance). Of course perception changes otherwise we'd still be bear-baiting and dog and cock fights wouldn't be covert affairs. More recently, we'd still see folk on horseback, in red, blue or black jackets chasing foxes and hare coursing would be legal.