tigerowl

That's not the point. The point is, there are enough riders to go round. One league of 22, two leagues of 11, whatever. Also, I grew up watching Mauger, Collins and Olsen etc, averaging over 11 points per match and riding in the same team as riders like (and no disrespect at all to these), Russ Hodgson, Ian Hindle and Tony Gillias. Didn't seem to do any harm to the crowds then.

It's a thread about the future of speedway, therefore not a crap thread. The lack of riders is a myth. However, if it carries on, it will be a self fulfilling prophecy as more and more riders are put out of work. There could be a proper 22 team league with enough riders to go round and I have spent what is a wet Wednesday putting the teams together to demonstrate this. This is from riders who are riding this season or who have ridden here recently and does not include most of the Grand Prix riders not riding here, most of the Poles, and hardly touches the untapped resources from Scandinavia, Germany, France and Holland. I haven't balanced the team strengths exactly and it is just a demonstration to show that the lack of riders is a myth. Belle Vue - C. Cook, M. Fricke, A. Skornicki, J. Jacobs, D. Bewley, M. Williamson, R. Shuttleworth Berwick - A. Summers, C. Wright, C. Vissing, K. Doolan, M. Wethers, L. Carr, L. Ruddick Birmingham - J. Thorsell, N. Busk Jacobsen, N. Porsing, T. Pijper, E. Perks, T. Perry, D. Greenwood Eastbourne - S. Nicholls, B. Barker, P. Starke, T. Busch, R. Branford, G. Wood, T. Brennan Edinburgh - S. Masters, K. Wolbert, E. Riss, M. Riss, J. Pickering, M. Davey, L. Payne Glasgow - M. Zagar, R. Lawson, T. Proctor, N. Lunna, J. Wright, J. Smith, R. Hall Ipswich - D. King, R. Schlein, N. Covatti, G. Manzares, P. Castagna, C. Mountain, D. Hume Kent - P. Hougaard, K. Hansen, C. Heeps, S. Nielsen, L. Bowen, M. Baseby, J. Thomas King's Lynn - R. Lambert, M. Korneliussen, K. Huckenbeck, L. Rose, D. Ayres, J. Knight, J. Bailey Lakeside - A. Jonsson, L. Bridger, A. Ellis, R. Mear, P. Hurry, B. Morley, A. Bowtell Leicester - K. Nilsson, D. Bellego, L.Kerr, D. Berge, A. Roynon, T. Bacon, C. Coles Newcastle - T. Batchelor, R. Bach, M. Kus, V. Palovaara, J. Serjeant, R. Hummel, B. Hopwood Peterborough - H. Andersen, M. Palm Toft, U. Ostergarrd, D. Howe, S. Lambert, B. Wilson, D. Halsey Poole - C. Holder, B. Kurtz, J. Holder, K. Newman, A. Lyager, J. Shanes, S. Hazelden Redcar - B. Pedersen, J. Garrity, J. Andersen, S. Robson, F. Garcia, J. Bukhave, L. Chessell Rye House - C. Harris, E. Kennett, M. Risager, K Lykke, S. Boxall, P. Karger, L. Harris Scunthorpe - S. Worrall, R. Worrall, R. Douglas, J. Auty. C. Wilkinson, F. Wallner, D. Phillips Sheffield - K. Bjerre, K. Howarth, L. Bjerre, J. Bates, M. Clegg, J. Parkinson-Blackburn, B. Compton Somerset - J. Grajczonek, R. Tungate, J. Allen, T. Kurtz, J. Graversen, Z. Wajknecht, C. Powell Swindon - J. Doyle, J. Sedgmen, B. Wilson-Dean, E. Grondal, D. Gappmaier, Z. Holub, N. Stoneman Wolverhampton - F. Lindgren, N. Klindt, L. Lindgren, T. Aarnio, A. Morris, N. Greaves, L. Priest Workington - N. Morris, R. Wells, T. Jorgensen, M. Campton, A. Davies, J. Etheridge, R. Blacklock

An Aussie riding in the British final making the sport seem silly? Let's hope Sheffield don't win the Championship and Leicester finish bottom of the Premiership. Guests for Lasse Bjerre and Josh Bates because they are riding for the opposition? Explain that to the press and the would be fans.

The White Knight is correct. The sport has become a band of mercenaries with no loyalty to a team who zig-zag all over the country, pulling on different race jackets every night and then zoom off into the sunset to do it all again tomorrow. The situation is made worse by the promoters who want to chop and change every week looking for an extra half point per match from someone and SOME fans who aren't happy unless the 'team' is winning every week at home. The rest of the fans who actually want to see a team representing their town or city with loyalty shown by both the promotion to the riders and riders to the fans, either have to pay up and shut up, watching a disparate group of kevlar clad strangers riding round every week, or in some cases (mine included), stop going altogether because they are sick of watching the stupid circus week after week. All the time, the hard core fans are being alienated and the new fans, if there are any, soon lose interest when they realise what a farce the system is.

That was the first speedway I have seen all season, live or otherwise, and I have to say I enjoyed it. The coverage was as good as Sky and better in some instances. Natalie Quirk is an excellent link and clearly knows her stuff. Some of the female presenters on Sky were very poor. Steve Brandon is also very good and the sparse use of interviews was a good idea. The interviews with riders after each race that Sky did was boring - 'track is patchy' 'going to make some changes' and that was about it. The worst thing for me was the number of times Nigel mentioned that 90% of the riders rode for at least two tracks. I think people watching the racing who don't usually go must have been impressed with the action but would have been confused and put off by the ridiculous notion that the winner rode for Belle Vue (and Workington) the runner-up rode for Belle Vue (and Newcastle) and the third placed rider rode for Ipswich (and Wolverhampton). For me, this shows that speedway can be a wonderful sport, but is being absolutely destroyed by the promoters who have stripped it of any credibility it once had,

Can we drop the celebrity fan feature please? It got embarrassing after Graham Stuart and the darts player Scott something or other. Someone who plays in a tribute band or cuts the grass at a sports stadium isn't a celebrity. Great magazine otherwise. It's the only thing (apart from this site) which keeps me up to date with the sport. I will go back to watch it the promoters ever decide to drop the doubling up / doubling down fiasco.

Anyone who uses the site will have noticed that it has been inactive for the last few months. I had to rebuild the site after the old software used became out of date. A few weeks ago, having completed 75% of the rebuild, the whole thing crashed and I lost the lot and I had to start again. It's now up and running again will be brought up to date with all the new and updated files over the next few weeks. Matt

Does it exist anymore? I wondered what their take would be on riders having two or three jobs whilst other colleagues are being put out of work?

It seems very limited in Sweden. Anyway, there's a thread devoted to the subject on SSF.

I think the main words to come out of this thread are integrity, credibility and circus. At the moment the sport has none of the first two words and the third is an accurate description of where things are at the moment. Just looking at yesterday's fixtures and the Ipswich team at Scunthorpe contained Danny King (also rides for Leicester), Rory Schlein (also rides for Wolves), Justin Sedgmen (also rides for Belle Vue), Kyle Newman (also rides for Poole), Cameron Heeps (also rides for Somerset), Nathan Greaves (also rides for Wolves) and Connor Mountain (also rides for Mildenhall). That's a compete team of riders who double up for other clubs. My own 'team', Sheffield, weren't in action yesterday but Kyle Howarth was riding for Scunthorpe, Lasse Bjerre was riding for Peterborough, as was Robert Branford, whilst Branford and Josh Grajczonek spent the weekend on opposite sides riding for Rye House and Somerset. The sport needs to attract newcomers and retain its long standing followers. There is no chance of doing either whilst the current position continues. Speedway is essentially a team sport and people need to feel that they belong to a team and the team belongs to them. None of the other leagues in Europe seems to do this and the British promoters are always looking for the easy way out. They make team changes and put riders out of work, then cry that there are not enough riders to go round. Riders need to ride for one team only. If that means that some of them have to go part time, then so be it. I'm not sure how they can earn enough to be full time, riding for just seven and a half months out of the year in front of 400 or so paying customers anyway. Going back a few years, most riders had jobs and only the top men were full time riders, but now, with the doubling up scenario, a five point Second Division man, riding for two or more clubs can be a full time rider. This would help riders to ride at the correct level. Craig Cook, Danny King, Rory Schlein, Josh Grajczonek, Robert Lambert etc. should not be riding in the Premier League. Similarly, Matt Williamson (a seven point man with Workington this season), Danny Ayres, Mitchell Davey etc. should not be riding in the National League. The not enough riders to go round argument does not hold water. The same was said in 1960 when the Provincial league was formed and in 1968 when the Second Division was introduced. Make team places available and the riders will be found - from the junior leagues, from grass track, out of retirement and from some of the emerging countries in Europe to fill the places.

Matt... it was I who stated that... but I don't mind Mike BV guesting for me this time! Sorry about that!!!

A sport that was once primarily a team game has been positioned to a place of just a bunch of individuals getting a pay day. That comment from Mike BV sums it up for me. I posted about credibility in the rising crowds thread and when fans of 40 years+ are deserting the already deserted terraces, then you know the sport is in trouble. The sport is being run so that a bunch of pretty mediocre riders can ride every night of the week and not be bothered who's colours they are riding in while less and less people turn up to watch and newcomers quickly think 'what the hell is going on here, Joe Bloggs, our number one rider, has just helped our rivals destroy our league position'. The lack of riders argument is a self fulfilling prophecy. Stop giving chances to youngsters and they will pack it in.

I'm not looking at the situation through the eyes of a football fan. I'm looking at it through the eyes of a sports fan who might be tempted to try speedway. Crowds are dwindling and the rules are alienating some die hard fans who have had enough. New fans need to be attracted for the sport to survive and for that to happen speedway needs to be entertaining, value for money, well presented and credible. It is occasionally entertaining, occasionally value for money, rarely well presented and totally without credibility at the moment.

Halifax Tiger, I accept what you are saying to a degree. There has been doubling up since 1968 when the Second Division was reintroduced but it was on a limited scale and, as you say, it has got out of hand. Craig Cook being captain of Belle Vue and Workington is unacceptable and riders missing meetings because they are riding for other clubs is damaging integrity. Try explaining to a newcomer that Sheffield have borrowed Richard Lawson from Glasgow to replace Josh Grajczonek as he is riding for Somerset! I don't think that the football comparison stands up. The away goals rule (which I think is the one you are referring to) is only used to separate teams in two legged cup matches that have tied on aggregate. A more accurate comparison would be for a team that was 3-0 down in a game to nominate their next goal to count as two. Can you imagine the uproar in football if that was suggested.

I agree with the earlier comments from Mike BV. I haven't been to speedway at all this season. I still get the Star and flick through it and come and have a look on here once or twice a week but that's it. For me, value for money and credibility are the main factors. The racing at Sheffield last season was garbage in the main and I can't think of many times where I thought I had come out having had value for my £15. I can remember the first meeting I went to in 1974 and the team was Wyer, Wilson, Valentine, Haley, Paulson, Haynes and Pendlebury. Apart from Bob Valentine all were pretty local and they rode for Sheffield. That was their team and I felt like there was some sort of belonging. This season six of the seven Sheffield riders are riding for other clubs in the U.K and that sense of belonging has gone. Trying to explain this to newcomers is embarrassing enough without the guest rider rule and the double points tacticals.

Well, it's 6:15 and I am three miles from the stadium. It has hardly rained and the sun is now out. I'm not saying it won't rain and the meeting might not have been off anyway, but to call a meeting off because of a forecast of light rain around start time is wrong on so many levels. How many people would be travelling from Scotland to watch the meeting? A dozen? Local people without access to Facebook or Twitter would have no idea the meeting might be off as there would be no reason to check as it has hardly rained and how many people will turn up expecting the meeting to be on? More than a dozen I would suspect. It also sets a dangerous precedent for clubs with injured or unavailable riders to postpone meetings due to weather forecasts. I know it has not happened in this case, but it could do. Rain offs are annoying but part of the life of a speedway fan but this is just another nail in the coffin of the sport.

I can appreciate it might be a bit inconvenient for the 10 or so fans that would journey down from Edinburgh for this one but can we really expect people to come to the speedway at all if meetings get called off because of a dodgy weather forecast. I live about three miles from the stadium, the sun is out and it has hardly rained all day. A bloke has just walked past my house in a t-shirt!! Crazy decision and absolutely killing speedway.

I think Todd Kurtz should be captain as all the others will be distracted riding for their other clubs.

Speedway is indeed a simple sport, but it is run by simpletons. Coventry and Sheffield (possibly others, I haven't checked) have potentially six of their riders 'doubling up' and riding for different teams. To sell this to the fans who attend already is hard enough but to sell it to any potential newcomers... Rubbish stadiums, rubbish rules, rubbish promoters = a rubbish sport I'm afraid.

Six of the seven riders (at least) riding for other clubs as well as Sheffield. What a complete and utter shambles the authorities have made of this once great sport. How on earth do we sell this to potential new fans.

The league names are the least of the sport's worries. What sort of credibility is there when the majority of riders will be riding for at least two teams in 2017. Imagine a Sheffield v Coventry play off final where Lasse Bjerre and Josh Bates ride for Sheffield and Coventry use guests for Lasse Bjerre and Josh Bates. You couldn't make it up.

If Sheffield were to win the Championship and Coventry were to finish bottom of the Premiership and the two had to play off for promotion / relegation, who would Lasse and Josh ride for and how on earth do we sell that to the public. A complete and utter shambles as usual.

Well, it hasn't rained here since they tweeted to say that it was on and the track was fine!!!

Peter Karlsson 17/12/69 I think Piotr Swist 20/6/68 is still going Bart Bast 4/6/67 Charlie Venegas 12/2/67

Not bothered what the team is to be honest. Would rather the excuse for what used to be called a track got sorted out. The racing this year has been appalling - like Hull and Bradford rolled into one.