Aces51

I understand that if you're an Eastourne fan you may want only to see the one match and I can certainly understand the frustration when the second match has to be postponed. However, you knew or could have found out the cost before attending and I can't see many clubs opening the turnstiles again when the first match is over to allow in a few away fans. There would be no fixed starting time for the second match and no doubt some would be upset if they were then charged the normal admission price. My guess is that most away team fans travelling to a double header would want to take the opportunity to see two live matches. I would and did in the 60's and 70's when double headers were more common.

It stated that the admission fee covered both matches but plainly referred to that date when they were being run together. The website makes plain that the normal admission cost is £16.50. Belle Vue could have charged £33 for the double header, the normal cost for two matches but didn't. They no doubt realised many could not afford that and so passed on the savings they gained in paying less for track rent and travel expenses than they would have had to pay for separate matches. As only one match was run their expenses were as they would be for any single match. Accordingly,they have deducted the usual entrance fee leaving the tickets with a monetary value of £8.50 to be used at any future meeting. Hardly seems unreasonable. Funny isn't it how the only people who have managed to get themselves into a lather about it weren't there.

On the Belle Vue web site http://www.bellevueaces.co/default.aspx it explains how the admission tickets can be used for future meetings but not how to obtain a refund. I would suggest you send them an email. The various addresses are listed in the contacts section of the site.

I don't believe that lack of GP riders is the main reason for falling crowd numbers. It is one of the reasons but the truth is that crowds have been dropping since the 1980's and the top riders didn't really start to disappear until after 2007. I agree with what others have said that far more relevant is the need to get back to settled teams with riders that fans can relate to as theirs. To me a major part of the enjoyment used to be watching riders from the second half reserve races progress into the team and then, in some cases, to becoming stars of the team. You identified with them, you had a loyalty to them and they had a loyalty to the team. You knew that if they were doing their job they would probably be there year after year. The implementation of rider allocation and then maximum team averages started to have an affect but up until the 90's team changes from one year to the next were relatively minimal. We need to get back to that continuity where kids and fans in general can identify with their favourite rider and follow him riding for their team over many seasons. If that can be achieved by squads and it is a practical and affordable option then let's go for it. If not then we need to build a system involving only those riders willing to commit to the EL, encourage local riders and discriminate in favour of producing British talent.

Presumably, they would each want to have their own machinery over here if they were fully committed to giving it their best and not just using it to supplement their richer pickings from Sweden and Poland. In that case it seems highly likely that the combined cost will be greater.

Not difficult just look back through the fixtures. The reason has been the infamous Manchester weather plus the enforced SWC break. Some brilliant racing last night just such a shame that the cloudburst was right over the stadium. As others have said no rain at all just a short distance away. Lakeside looked poor and Nilsson was particularly unimpressive. They were fortunate that Schlein was on top form. Nice to see Lee Payne back in the points.

I wasn't there so don't know where some posters who are blaming the referee got their information. This is what Neil Watson said on here; "The promotion, referee and both sets of riders were keen for the match to take place if at all possible, and had intended to delay the start, but it then became clear that the circuit had taken on too much water and it was in nobody’s interest to stage a farcical event". He has no reason to say that if everyone apart from the referee wanted to carry on.

I don't know what the situation is with Lakeside but with the Coventry match the Aces were trying to get the date changed for months before the match but Coventry wouldn't play ball. I take the point about not accepting the fixture list in the first place but that isn't how it works. If every club refused to accept it until they had rearranged every match they wanted to we would probably still be waiting for the list now. Some clubs may prefer to meet a weakened side, although with the Aces away form it hardly matters.😂

Monday is not good for riders for the reason you give. Belle Vue want to change to Friday at the new track because they will have a better chance of parents allowing their children to attend and because they won't be competing with a sky match nearly every week. There may be insurmountable difficulties but that is now both Lakeside and Covent who have refused to change dates when they have known we would have a weakened team.

Is it any different than a self employed plumber/electrician etc. They quote to do a job, if they turn up on time with the relevant tools and do a quality job you use them again and recommend them to others. If they are unreliable and do a poor job you don't. If a rider is on a guaranteed amount but turns up with poor equipment, isn't scoring the points expected and not giving 100%, you either don't use them next season or, negotiate a lesser fee commensurate with their performance. It literally doesn't pay riders to deliberately under perform.

I doubt he knows why. If he did I'm sure he would have done something about it by now. No rider wants to ride badly.

You can understand some Aces fans being pessimists after our generally poor performance overthe last 20 years. However, I see no point in being negative, it doesn't get you anywhere and make life a bit of a misery. On a positive note, the date has now been fixed for the planning application hearing, 11 September. Still hurdles to jump and no doubt further delays but looking as if will be ready for 2016 season.

Congratulations to Kings Lynn on a deserved victory. They were by far the better team. Having said that the real damage was done at reserve. The Aces pair scored 3, the Stars 17. Steve Worrall was a more than adequate guest. Racing was not as good as some matches at Kirky Lane this year but still some good passes, particularly by Zagar. Kings Lynn are certainly the best team to visit Belle Vue and must still be favourites to win the play offs. Good to see them doing so well.

Some would say standing up to bully boy tactics is exactly what the BSPA did. Remember the threats of legal action and closing the sport down by those who thought their money would frighten the rest. However, I doubt it has stopped many fans attending. Most are not even aware it happened.

Which is one of the advantages of using only riders committed to riding here. I am not against one race night in principle I just see it as unlikely to happen when many clubs are tenants and dependant on other commitments at their stadium. Even when it is possible some promoters would not consider it viable to move from their traditional race night.

I have already explained it is not a question of doing nothing but I agree with your second paragraph.

Who said do nothing, there are other options already mentioned on various threads. Squads, not really viable if we are talking about GP riders because of the cost but teams consisting only of riders prepared to commit to the UK, action to reduce costs for promoters, riders and fans and an emphasis on producing and nurturing home grown talent. Possibly, a new combined British League, as in 1965. Team strengths were lowered for the then first division sides and riders allocated to strengthen the second division sides. I know we had most of the world's best riders then but new heroes quickly developed from the second division like Ivan Mauger and Ivor Brown. The concept of seeing clubs not seen before and the chance of only seeing a visiting No.1 once a season resulted in the one of the most successful period in speedway's history.

I wonder how many of those calling for racing on one/two nights to attract back the GP riders feel sufficiently confident it will increase crowds to cover the cost. Would they remortgage their own homes to do it because that is the sort of risk they are expecting the promoters to take. We are all concerned about falling crowds at some tracks and the general state of the sport. However, it has to be realised that if it were done and the crowds didn't flock back it could result in the demise of a lot of clubs.

It's about 45%, including the fast track riders who make up 28% of that overall total. That in no way detracts from my point that the EL is the league to prefer if you enjoy watching the superior skills of the likes of Ward, Pawlicki x 2, Kildemand, Doyle, Zagar, Nicholls, Wofinden, Iversen, Bjerre, Andersen etc. Added to that is that even with the double up riders you are watching the cream of the PL.

As I have said before, I had given up hope that the track could be prepared to provide the good racing we used to see in the early 90's. A number of different curators had all tried and failed so even more credit to Colin Meredith and his team who have now produced a consistently good racing strip. I was enjoying the racing too much on Monday to give any real attention to the size of the crowd but my impression is that it was a good turnout. I know it is difficult to assess crowd numbers but they seem to me to be up this year.

I'm sure you are right about that. The problem with going to one or two nights is not only whether all EL clubs who are tenants could do it and whether it would work for them, moving away from their traditional race night but also whether there would be a sufficient increase in crowds to pay for these returning stars. Similar financial considerations also apply to squads.

I agree entirely with what you say about riders who give up. The paying fans are entitled to expect 100% effort. It is all relative and you have to take into account the current EL standard but I disagree about him not being a genuine number 1. This year he is effectively third in the EL averages despite having ridden many more away than home matches. If Zagar isn't a number one then, Kings Lynn and Poole apart, no-one has a genuine number 1. All of that apart the real winner last night was speedway. Good weather, a decent crowd and some excellent racing.

Anyone watching last night would have seen that in his first two races he was unfortunate to get pushed out wide on the first bend. In his second ride he rode well to catch and pass Morris. His third and fourth rides were fine and then in his last ride he was off the graveyard gate 3. With Kildemand and Batchelor covering the racing lines and Scottie chasing hard there was no realistic chance of him getting into a scoring position but he shouldn't have coasted round. This year, like most heat leaders, he hasn't been quite as good as last year but we have still seen some brilliant racing from him. It's always the way that after a loss fans look for a scapegoat but last night in his first two races Zagar was just unlucky to be in the wrong place on the first bend.

Congratulations to the Robins on a deserved win. Clearly the better team on the night. Yet another entertaining match at Kirky Lane. The highlights for me were Scott Nicholls pass of Kildermand and Batchelor down the home straight in heat 6, watching Kildermand riding on the edge and beyond and Palm-Toft giving his usual 100%. Anyone who didn't think that match was worth the entrance fee is watching the wrong sport.

It doesn't matter how much you try to hype it the fact is that many of the fans with an EL team would regard their BL team as their second/reserve team and would not attend. The best riders will not return unless they can negotiate pay rates they consider worthwhile and I just cannot see that bringing them back is going to increase gate receipts sufficiently to pay for them. Crowds were falling long before they left. I know all about speculate to accumulate but there is a significant risk that many clubs would fold if crowds did not increase dramatically. In my opinion the risk is too big to take. I prefer building teams only with riders willing to commit to the UK. Trying to get back to teams that have a core of the same riders year after year, so that fans can identify with them and build some sort of long term loyalty and doing everything possible to reduce costs for riders and fans. It really is time to go back to basics and rebuild hopefully, with more British riders local to their team and to keep costs affordable for promoters, riders and fans. In due course we could be back at the top table