Aces51

II think you'll find that cheating is done in the hope of gaining a benefit. The fact that benefit may not materialise does not alter the fact that cheating may have taken place. Let's look at a hypothetical example. A rider who is off form pretends to be injured and a better rider replaces him, that is cheating. The fact that better rider then fails to perform better than the rider who pretend to be injured might have done doesn't mean there was no cheating. It means the cheating didn't realise the benefit hope for.

Forecast a bit better now. Rain until 5pm then no more until 9pm. If right should give a couple of hours to get the track sorted.

The weather forecast for this is worse than for Wolverhampton. Heavy rain from 10.00 to 16.00 then light rain until 18.00 with more light rain at 20.00. Hopefully, the forecast will improve and any rain in the few hours before start time will disappear and give time for the drainage to do it's job and for the track staff to do theirs. Barring an early call off I'll be there and I hope that despite the forecast fans will turn up in large numbers to show their support to the 1-7 who have got us to the top of the league and after an outstanding performance at Lakeside, into a strong position to get into the final. I also wish Wolves well and hope we meet them in the final.

If you read what most people are saying the objection is that his average has been wrongly assessed and I suspect even most Poole supporters can see that the evidence to support that opinion is overwhelming. If he is presently not in his best form is immaterial, that is a Poole problem for signing him. The issue is that Poole or any other team should not have been able to sign him on a 7 point average. It concerns me that Poole thought it right to try it on but my real concern is with CVS and his ilk who seem prepared to treat supporters with contempt and appear to have no qualms about the damage done to the credibility of the sport. Fans have already been questioning the point of the play offs if clubs can strengthen in this way for the finals. It won't take much more damage to the credibility of the competition before that will be reflected in the attendance figures.

He's trying to join the silent majority.

I assume the answer is no as it's now too late to make any changes and even if it wasn't they can only do a like for like change and Andersen's average is too high unless they wanted to swap him for Holder. That's the problem with these long term injuries that cause a rider to miss one match.

What has there being an incentive to bring in a GP rider got to do with it. If you want to replace a rider it has to be on a like for like basis. Taking the example of Andersen it had to be someone on 7.15 or less otherwise, it is against the rules and would be unfair on every other team. GP riders have previously been assessed at 8 and lo and behold the current averages for GP riders currently in the EL is almost exactly that figure. If they want to create an incentive to encourage GP riders then the rules have to be changed prior to the beginning of the season so that every team has the opportunity to take advantage of it, not virtually at the end of a season when only one team can bring in a rider on a falsely low assessed average.

There are 8 GP riders in the EL not counting Lindback. Their combined averages total 64.17 which works out at an average of 8.02 per GP rider.

As others have suggested the way forward to ensure transparency and a level playing field is to create a formula to convert current averages achieved in Poland, Sweden etc.

Still a worry though without a genuine number 1. Strength in depth is OK but you need someone to go out and win heats 13 and 15 and 7 point riders can't be relied on to do it. Doesn't this show just how ludicrous the Lindback assessment is. More often than not it's not too difficult to work out who it is though. Certainly they would have known who was enquiring about Lindback.

I understand Belle Vue are looking to sign Woffinden, Zmarzlik, Gregory Laguta, Dudek, Steve Worrall, Dan Bewley as the EDR and a 3 pointer. I'm a bit concerned with all these 7 pointers or in Woffinden's case 7.03, that we've no real number one. Mid table finish I think with that mediocre lot.

I wasn't there but a friend of mine was and told me there weren't many people there. He is an Aces fan so couldn't make comparisons with the normal attendance. I think it's true generally that televised matches have an affect on the crowd numbers and it's always been my experience, like yours, that crowds increase when the the better teams visit. My point is that the evidence of the first legs of the semi finals and for that matter our semi final last year, is that they no longer attract the crowds they did but a few years ago and that to that extent the play offs are already losing their appeal

Of course there won't be many away fans and overall not a big crowd. I was being facetious. According to some the first leg crowd at Poole was less than for some leagues meetings this year and Lakeside was poor. It seems those extolling the crowd pulling power of the play offs can now only depend on the final to support their argument.

After reading the many impressive posts telling me how the play offs draw tremendous crowds and are the modern day success story of the sport I am anticipating hordes of fans travelling up the M1. I'm going to get there especially early to avoid the queues.

CVS either thinks we are all so thick that we will buy his explanation for Lindback's ridiculous average or he doesn't care what fans think. He is treating us with contempt. We all know that Zmarzlik and Lindback are likely to average more than 7 once they acclimatise to UK tracks.. Does CVS honestly think they would score less or the same as King, Lambert and Thorsell who are all averaging more than 7. The reality is that none of them are going to do a full season here but if they did on that average they would likely be doing out of a job riders who have been loyal to the UK, like King and the others mentioned above.

I'm not too bothered who wins this they will both be difficult teams to face in the final, if we get there. Poole have the biggest home for and against points difference of any team in the league so therefore the biggest home advantages of any team. Facts don't lie and on that basis they should win tonight and by a decent margin. Wolves will do well to hold them to less than 10 but they are more than capable of overturning that at Monmore Green.

Lindback's average from 10 years ago should have nothing to do with it. It's far too old to use as an assessment for any rider. In that sort of timescale form can and does change. It is more honest, realistic and fair in those circumstances to look at other more relevant factors like being GP rider and current averages achieved in other leagues.

Lakeside have lost only one match at home this year and have a significant home track advantage. R/R should score pretty much what AJ would have done. We have riders who can do well there but I can't see us winning. I hope we do of course but I will be satisfied if we can keep it reasonably close.

Chapman could make a difference but at the moment appears either to be choosing not to or, of being incapable of doing so. I know he said it would takes time and that it is next year when we are to see the fruits of his efforts but surely he could either have stopped the Lindback farce and the damage it is doing to the credibility of the sport or, if he agrees with the assessed average, provide an explanation. Particularly, in view of his promise of openness and transparency.

The post was about if Poole were using guests instead of signing Lindback.

I think you'll find that most posters see the issue being with the BSPA. As for transparency, that would be the openness and transparency promised by Chapman when he took office almost 12 months ago. He seems to be conspicuous by his total lack of comment on anything apart from a childish outburst following the opening meeting at the NSS. I was hoping that it was exactly this sort of farce over Lindback's assessed average that he was going to stop.

They couldn't have KK his average is now too high. Much is going to depend on how we do in this match at Lakeside. If we don't keep it to within 8 points it will be an interesting second leg.

Ford obviously applied in the hopes of getting the average reduced to below Andersen's. I'm not sure how you know he wouldn't have pursued it had his application been refused. As for genuine reasons for the assessment yes, obviously there were reasons, whether they were genuine reasons we don't know. It is difficult for most of us to understand the rationale behind it and it looks to me that they knew how ridiculous it would look and so tried to justify it by apparently mentioning other riders that most would expect to be assessed higher than 7. Of course they were aware of the fact that no other team was in a position to sign any of those other riders.

Doesn't that depend on the price that has to be paid? It is no good them coming back if they do not attract more fans to attend, at least sufficient to cover the extra money they will demand. The evidence is that crowds were falling before they departed. Clubs are surviving on a financial knife edge now so we must be sure they will increase crowds after the initial novelty has worn off. Otherwise, the sport will be left in a much worse position than it is now. Also, if we are going to let them in on artificially low averages, as seems the current thinking, we are going to put the likes of King, Cook, Nilsson and Thorsell out of a job. Is that really what we want to do to those and others on similar averages who have been loyal to the EL. I much prefer that we have teams made up of those riders committed to the UK. That will give us the opportunity for fewer guests, more places for home grown talent, continuity of riders in teams season on season, riders fans can then identify with and weekly home meetings. Over time standards will improve and we can look to regaining our place in international speedway. Importing more mercenaries who simply want to use the UK to earn more means fewer places for British riders and a continuation in our decline.

I agree that Poole choosing the right guests for the away matches could have made them stronger than signing Lindback, although I think he will do better than guests at home and it is the aggregate scores that matter. It's the fact he comes in on a 7 that is wrong and which damages the credibility of the league competition. I have no problem with an injured rider being replaced but it has to be by rider who is of the same or a lower standard. How many fans genuinely believe that Lindback would average 7 or less if had been riding here. With all due respect to Craig Cook his average for matches ridden this year is near enough 7, would people assess Lindback and apparently Dudek in the same category.