BWitcher

Right.. So the argument is, Sky has pumped money into lots of sports, given them massive exposure and that is what has caused them all to 'decline'. No other reasons.. all Sky's fault? Seriously? lol Just think for a moment where some of these sports would be if Sky hadn't got involved with them....

Well, let's look at accounts for year end 2017. Name one Premier League club... I'll go more.. Here are the ones who made a profit: Arsenal, Bournemouth, Burnley, Everton, Hull, Leicester, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Middlesbrough, Southampton, Stoke, Swansea, Tottenham, Watford, WBA, West Ham

Another living on a different planet. Rugby Union has not thrived?

The signing of Thorssell has been shown to be a mistake, averaging a pt less than his starting average. That was pretty obvious from the get go. Howarth has suffered numerous injuries which have impeded him this season and due to the poor form of Heaps, Morris was thrust into the main body of the team which of course has greatly effected his performances/confidence. That 'should' have been compensated by an upturn in the performance of Heeps but it hasn't happened. Masters started a little below par but has been flying since he went to No 4 (a la Thorssell last year). Schlein is likely to go to No 1 soon and his average will take a hit there too. Changes aside, the key thing now is if Thorssell moves away from No 1 he must ride at 5. It would be absolutely insane to put him back at 4 and elevate his average again for next season.

Not sure what planet you are on, or whether you've just copied and pasted the opening post from another source.. The downward spiral of football since Sky? lmao. Seriously? Then you try and cite a Thursday night Rugby League game as proof that has also had a downward spiral? Rugby League attendances are higher now than they were pre Sky. Absolute nonsense article/post.

Little bit late for that now.

Definitely not purpose built. Outside viewing there was awful. As mentioned above it was the London Lions that were there for a season, in 1996.

I pointed out to you there were riders of National League level quality riding in the top flight for Wolves in the late 80's when the league was far far stronger. That's a fact. If they went down the route of a big league the talent would be spread out across teams. Each side would theoretically have a stand out No 1, they'd have three heat leaders averaging 8+. Second strings would be second strings.. reserves would be reserves, in the main how it always used to be. The bottom end would be full of riders of a similar level, their jobs would be to score 3-4 pts.. not the 9-10 some expect from reserves now.. Again, just how it used to be. Some of those riders would develop and move up.. others wouldn't.. just how it used to be.

I stated a fact, it's not something to disagree with.

Nicki Pedersen is TOP of the averages in the Polish League. The toughest league of them all, yet some question his place in the top 16 in the world?

In the late 80's we had riders like Shane Cooper, Ade Hoole, Andy Sumner, Chris Cobby turning out for Wolves in the top flight. They were no better than National League riders today.. and that was when the league was a lot stronger. There's more than enough riders.

I've read it, it is nonsense. 'dumbing down with double up riders can be better'. Absolute ridiculous nonsense.

You're clearly living on a different planet if you think dumbing down and having MORE double uppers is better and isn't the cause of more guests.

The points you make are only a catalyst of the points I have made. The increased guests and R/R came about due to the continued weakening of the product and hence the increase of riders doubling up. Were the teams of a high quality I doubt missing the odd week here and there would have anywhere near as much effect also. It's all a vicious spiral. Quite simply, you cannot hope to run a successful business if you continuously cut the quality and increase the price. Year after year after year it was done... and sadly many lackies on this forum year after year after year kept saying it was the solution.

You may have noticed this is a thread about Wolverhampton Speedway, so the topics discussed are relevant to Wolverhampton Speedway. If you had bothered to read what I posted I said it's a shame British Speedway has sunk to the levels it has... i.e. it cannot afford Lindgren/Woffinden anymore. For 20 years plus the league has been consistently weakened and fans have been consistently lost as a result of it every single time. Weaken the product, leave the price the same. Fans leave. Weaken the product, put the price up!.. Fans leave. Oh, we lost money last year.. I know.. let's weaken the product again and stick £1 on the admission... oh no, more fans leave. It has been a practice doomed to failure and predicted on here for well over ten years now. We're now at a stage where the damage done to the sport at the top level is so great we're beyond being able to bring back the top names for most, if not all clubs. A complete revamp is necessary, possibly a larger league with vastly reduced admission prices is very likely the only shot at saving league racing in the UK. Whether that will work is open to conjecture.. but something radical HAS to be done.

Yet they've already gone down it.. and guess what.. it's been financial suicide. The year on year weakening of the league, whilst maintaining the same prices, or putting them up has been a massive contributer to fans walking away. Throw in the shambolic way the sport is run, the shenanigans from the south coast and the problem was made worse. Throw in the growth of double uppers, the lack of team identity. Fixed race nights would have been a good idea many years back when there was a strong product to promote. Fixed race nights with sub standard teams for a premium price was and is doomed to failure. The sport is so far gone now the only option is, as many have said, to basically try and start again and work upwards. Even that may not work such is the damage done.

What a surprise. Toys thrown out of pram. AGAIN. Grow up ffs.

And an adverse effect on the sport as a whole. The fact the buffoons haven't realised this after 20 years is staggering.

That argument has been trotted out season after season after season for the past 15-20 years and the answer has always been cut costs. Cut costs.. attendances fall. We need to cut costs!... attendances fall We need to cut costs!... attendances fall. and on and on it has gone. Any business whose answer is to lower their standards but keep the same price point is doomed to failure. Totally agree with you about the lack of 'team' now. I didn't mind top riders in the past riding abroad.. but when half your team is riding for another team in the Championship that's just dumb. Are they saving their best for one or the other team? Using their better engines for one or the other team?

Again, that's not the case. The league was semi pro in far more prosperous times without any problems. The top riders are full time, but reserves and some second strings are semi-pro. That was always the case even when we had the top riders racing here.

Yes I agree with that 100%. The same is happening at Wolverhampton this year following their decision to leave Lindgren out. The issue of some riders not being full time is the part that I suggested doesn't correlate as much.

I agree entirely with regards to the dumbing down, but not so sure the two things correlate.

There in lies the problem! It's really not that long ago riders weren't expecting to make a living out of speedway. Wolves all conquering 1996 side James Grieves and Stewart McDonald had jobs outside of speedway and pretty sure Craig Taylor did too.

They lost their last match at home did they not? And there was football on, maybe not England but World Cup the same. Also think Masters is the wrong example to use.. he'd be last if he missed the gate regardless of the track That said... I agree, that meeting was very poor and the outside line has been becoming less and less over the years. The declining crowds are more to do with the team being picked. Yes, they may be winning.. but there's no 'star' name there now. Wolves fans have been used to Ermolenko, Correy, PK, Mikael, Lindgren over the years. Now Rory Schlein? I strongly believe leaving Lindgren out for financial reasons has/will cost them even more financially from fans simply staying away.

You forget he passed Nathan Greaves, that changes things