BWitcher

I agree, but we couldn't do anything about the last one (Woffy).

You do amuse me

Again as on the other thread.. ignoring the incompetency of the manager, was it really that bad? What can you do when you get 2pts for Woffinden. It all depends upon the league but the basis is there for a decent side again with Woffinden (if any top riders are in the league), Proctor, Thorsell certainties. I'd still happily have Skornicki as a solid middle order rider. The rest is very much dependent upon how the league is setup.

It's time we got in a team manager who can actually make some tactical decisions to aid us in the meetings. It is absolutely staggering bad management the way he handled our reserves across these two legs. Once again tonight, as in the home leg, Klindt was winning races for fun from the outside gates and awful from the inside. Once again, our genius of a manager DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to take advantage of that, waiting until the final races of the meeting when we had already lost to do something. However.. I must add in defence of the team, in the main they did their jobs. The reality is we had guests who scored 5 pts and 2pts for the Worlds No 1 rider respectively. NO team and I mean NO team would cover for that. With Tai, we would have won, and with some ease. It's as simple as that.

I know, but it wasn't far off from being the truth! Wolves had a rider at reserve who they could have engineered to have 6-7 races from the outside gates where he wins the vast majority of the time! Its staggeringly bad management to not take advantage of that. Staggeringly bad.

What do you mean, the way they are riding? They made heavy weather of beating a top heavy side. Wolves picked up 8pts from 9 rides from Woffys rides. He would have scored a min of 23/24. Wolves would likely have won over 2 legs. Their 2nd strings did a lot better than normal against Birmingham. Congratulations to Birmingham BUT they are going to find it a HELL of a lot tougher against Poole as Darcy Ward won't be scoring 8pts from 9 rides against them. Not correct. If Klindt was off gate 3 or 4 every race he would be World Champion. It matters not if he gates on the inside as I have said time and time and time again. He loses the speed on the 1st 2 turns, they come alongside him on the back straight and he goes to the back. If he gates off 3 or 4 he is gone. Tonight once again proved that. 2 great starts off the outside 6 pts.. 3 races from the inside gate, including 2 good starts.. 2 pts. He did miss the gate in his final outside race.. Home leg.. 2 great gates from the outside gates 6pts.. 2 great gates from the inside gates.. 0 pts. Sadly Wolves have an utterly inept team manager who is too clueless to take advantage of this glaring situation.

Fair enough, I just get tired of people trying to turn it into an EL v PL situation. The sport in general needs a shake-up and the leagues need to work together.

What are you talking about 'imaginery profits'? I'm the one saying that neither leagues are making money! Bottom line is, the clubs are losing money. There isn't a big difference between making a profit and making a loss as you claim there to be, in fact the difference in UK currency would be 2p. Once again you are trying to turn it into an attack on the EL which is quite simply narrowminded. The EL has a budget, it includes Sky money. PL has a budget, it doesn't include Sky money (or as much if they do get some). You've agreed that none, or very few clubs are making money. The riders are as such being overpaid.

Do I really need to explain? You have stated that there is a lot more eating into a clubs finances than riders wages. Yes there are. The vast majority of these are fixed expenses too. From this you put together a budget, with your expected income based on previous seasons attendances etc and work out what is viable in terms of paying your riders. You've stated that you believe that ALL clubs are making a loss. Quite clear they are paying the riders too much then.

TNT - newsflash for you. Wolves season is not yet over. Tai Woffinden is not yet World Champion. Both events are likely, but you assume both are 100% certainties in this post.

Name me a higher level of league racing in this country then.

So they are overpaying the riders then, you have just confirmed that yourself.

They already do, or am I missing the PL clubs rolling in their profits?

I would suggest that's a rather ill founded argument there. They are as equally important to each other. I hardly think things would be rosy for the PL if the EL went away. Remember what happened in 95/96 when the higher league was abandoned and the leagues merged? It was the PL level clubs that couldn't survive. If they merged again at a lower level the same situation would crop up, the EL teams would be able to afford the better riders, the PL clubs fighting over the scraps. Let's take your argument to the Ultimate and remove all the existing EL clubs from the frame altogether.. what would happen now? Those top PL riders who currently double up would have a big drop in income, they would want better deals from the PL clubs. Costs would rise.. The sport, in order to thrive ideally needs 3 levels of racing and they are all dependent upon each other.

Nobody has to defend anything. Elite League is the highest level of speedway in the UK. That is a fact. I don't spend much time on the PL section as I support an EL team.. but tell me, is it inundated with EL fans coming on there to tell them there league is incorrectly named (which it actually is)?

Is it really so major? All part of the art of good gating, been present in the sport since day one.

Seems you care enough to take the time out of your life to come onto this forum, search out this thread and comment on it. Most strange for something you aren't interested in. Meanwhile, the fans of both teams will hopefully enjoy a meeting like the 1st leg. Great crowd, great atmosphere and some good racing. To be frankly the honest, the enjoyment of the meeting would not be altered one tiny bit whether there was 1 inch in the papers or a 16 page pullout, totally different issue.

Your basic facts are wrong, nothing to do with 'tints' on glasses. Again you have made the same mistake. Woffinden was not fit during that period. He rode through the pain barrier in the GP. Then, unlike what most normal riders would have done (and it would have been understandable) he announced that it would be a lack of respect if he rode in the GP and not for his teams. Thus he then rode the very next day for his Polish team and then again the very next day for Wolves. With the injury he had at the time, it simply wasn't possible for him to do that without there being a major risk of of antagonising it, which of course duly happened. It was absolutely the correct decision then to rest until the next GP, he wasn't letting anyone down and there wasn't ANY lack of commitment to his club and for you to suggest there was is nothing short of disgraceful. Continuing to ride at that point could have jeopardised his whole season which would have been no use to rider or club. Still unfit, he raced in the next GP before immediately returning to the Wolves side where again, many a rider would not have done so. So rather than slag him off which you seem happy to do I would like to congratulate Tai for continuing to dedicate himself to the team, continuing to team ride when it would be safer for him to clear off at the front of the race with the injury he has and leading us like a true No 1.

Strange how you've managed to reply when you've spent months gloating in the fact of having me on ignore. Not a lame attempt at all, you mentioned that Tai rode against Peterboro, which nullified your argument. Feel free to believe Tai has let Wolves down if you like, but then you would also have to include Freddie Lindgren, Sam Ermolenko and Peter Karlsson in your not committed to Wolves group as well. I'd suggest you would be in a very very small minority. No I wouldn't. People get up in arms about certain Poole riders and certain other riders, like THJ, Dryml etc because they are seriel offenders who have/had a habit of picking and choosing meetings. If this was Ward or Holder in the same situation I wouldn't be criticising them.

Nice attempt, but an utterly garbage post. Woffinden rode for Wolves on the 17th following the Gorzow GP and was forced to withdraw from the meeting in utter agony.

Not quite grasping it are you. He isn't fit. He would be letting his club down more by riding half fit and dropping points. I don't criticise him for giving it a go on Sunday. The likelihood with the injury he has it would make it very difficult to then ride Monday too. Wolves have a replacement so he is not leaving us in the lurch or letting us down.. unlike your No 1 who did just that. I would not in any circumstances expect to Tai to ride Monday night. His collarbone has 'perhaps' two meetings left in it this season, the European Championship and the GP. Good luck to him. By trying to ride for Wolves he would be risking letting the whole team and its fans down if he had to pull out after a couple of rides, which is always VERY likely when you are riding with the injury he has. In an individual meet, if it happens, he hasn't let anyone down. Time to go fishing elsewhere.

The situations you brought up aren't even comparable to this. He isn't fit to ride per se as everyone knows. This is akin to Peter Collins, Kenny Carter, Sam Ermolenko riding with injuries in a meeting to pursue a title. The chance to become British, European and World Champion in the same season is something Tai does not want to pass up and rightfully so. The outcry in the past has been when riders have been blatantly taking the mickey so to speak just to miss out on bogey tracks. I suspect if required Tai would have no problems providing a medical note for Monday! Of course it could be all a plot by Wolves as they don't want the Worlds No 1 rider, captain and most insperational rider in the team.

He's scored more points in the play-offs than Jan O

Good to see Niels is fit to ride in the 2nd leg.

Salty, just subscribe to MLB.tv, can't beat it. Every game live.