BWitcher

It would also mean you would no longer have considered speedway a sport

All of this minority sport/mainstream sport, is it a sport, isn't it a sport is getting away from the main injustice in that Ben Ainslie is utterly undeserving of his place on this years list. There are many, including Woffinden who have achieved more in their sports in 2013.

WK, you are making yourself look very foolish. Nobody is criticizing golf or suggesting it isn't a sport. Only White Knight is being foolish with his suggestion that darts isn't a sport because fat people can do well at it. He is of course talking utter rubbish. I would actually state that someone like Phil Taylor puts in more training/practice for his sport than most other sportsmen do. The comparison with golf was made in that if darts is not a sport, then neither is golf. Of course they both are.

How so? It doesn't fit what you described as a sport earlier? Fat people can play it and be very succesful at it, so why is Golf different to Darts? I assume archery isn't a sport in your eyes either?

Do you class Golf as a sport WK?

I still don't buy into this 'good racing' brings in the crowds fallacy. Which track in the EL for years has been getting plaudits for its great racing?.... Which one has gone out of business? Meanwhile another track in the south-east and its not Eastbourne, is constantly criticised for its 'racing' yet seems to be one of the most stable clubs. If Poole were bottom of the league, but with fantastic racing every week, they'd get half the crowds they would if they were top of the league with average racing

I've no doubt those who dismiss Darts as a sport would say likewise about Snooker. As you have highlighted and I mentioned earlier, it would also mean dismissing Golf as a 'sport' too. You could also throw Archery, Shooting in there as well to be 'dismissed'.

Nitpicking? You posted something that was a load of cobblers. This was pointed out and of course you are unable to substantiate the rubbish you posted and now resort to further childish statements. Let us know about this event that's attended by 500 people, of which 499 people don't what to be here.. What is it? Where is it? As it simply isn't the event we are discussing on this thread. No it wasn't a massive worldwide event. Are you really that unable to use your own mind? It's staggering that someone on TV tells you something and you just accept it. 30,000 people could be bothered to watch this so called massive event. That's the facts. It was tiny, insignificant and the British sporting public weren't interested. Given the publicity and hype given to the event, to only attract 30,000 viewers is shocking! Pool attracted more viewers. Athletics, no argument there. World Champions in their disciplines deserve to be recognised. How did Ainslie get on in the World Championships in this year of 'sporting achievement'? Ah.. he didn't did he.

That isn't the complaint Humphrey. All sports deserve some form of coverage in my opinion. The complaint is more the disproportionate coverage given to some sports compared to who is actually interested in them as has been demonstrated on this thread. It's also in relation to those stating Woffinden (and others) shouldn't be on the list because they are from minority sports that few people watch.. or that they shouldn't be there as nobody knows who they are.. they won't know.. till they are told.

Don't forget also John, there were no Olympics this year.

The facts are Elephantman, the Americas Cup, the 'pinnacle of sailing'. An event that was given massive media coverage. An event that the final race was being billed as 'the greatest comeback in sporting history'.. Despite all this only 30,000 people bothered to watch it... Now, we know how even speedway fans feel about the Elite League and the state it is in, yet in the same week that attracted 72,000 viewers.. that tells me more than enough how much the public actually do care about sailing and the 'achievement' of Ainslie last year. Those are facts. Not predjudice. Stone cold facts. Very few people cared.

As a participation activity, that is somewhat different. Totally irrelevant to sailing as a 'sport'. Did the BBC and other press outlets with their non stop bombardment of Americas Cup coverage stop and say.. Hang on.. nobody bothered to watch this thing, perhaps they aren't interested? No, they didn't. Its a posh sport that will get covered, its how the media work. As spurious as your post. Most people are clueless until they are informed about something. Therein lies the issue, the selective nature. People know about some athletes because they have no choice not to know about it, Ainslie and the Americas Cup is the perfect example. Mass media coverage for something that the viewing figures showed, very very few people actually gave a stuff about. However that coverage further keeps the name Ben Ainslie on peoples brains. Its the same principle as in advertising and product recognition. Again, I am not saying Woffinden should have been on the list, there are many other worthy candidates that you point out. However I will say that he, Taylor, O'Sullivan etc are ALL more worthy than Ainslie. In fact I will go as far as to say Ainslie's inclusion in the list is the most farcical in the history of the competition.

Irrelevant ranting in attempt at another pop at the BSPA. There are plenty of threads to do that one and I have done it often enough.. however it becomes rather tiresome when the same old drivel is spouted on threads that have nothing to do with that. The rants about minority sport hold no credence as sailing is one of the sports listed.

What are you observations? You've mentioned someone called Tia, I know of no speedway riders by that name.. and mentioned an awards event with 500 people in attendance.. Neither of them are what is being discussed on this thread and seem to be figments of your imagination.

You've shown disrespect by once again calling him 'Tia'. Nullifies the rest of your observations. As for '500' people.. try 12,000.

In that case you have dismissed golf as well. Archery another. Only pedants even question whether these events are sport. No, it is a sport. A sport that to be succesful at you have to train/practice for hours on end on a regular basis. Phil Taylor is the epitomy of dedication to his sport and has been so for a vast period of time.

Much of this is true and for sure Tsunami and I have our differences in opinion to put it mildly.. however on this thread I am in total agreement with him. The BSPA have been pro-active in this case and that is to be commended. He is also quite right that Nicki Pedersen is the perfect rider to use from a marketing sense.

Of course you can blame the BBC. They have put forward Ben Ainslie, from a minority sport, who has achieved zero this year. He has not had a 'season of achievement'.

This is getting worrying Tsunami You did? Tell us of Ainslie's 2013 achievements please.

The Elite League is still correctly named, it is the highest level league in British speeday. The Premier League isn't and is the one with the false name. Not that it really matters.

Cycling has always been on the BBC agenda as its an Olympic sport. The moment we started to gain medals they began to hype it. Rowing is similar. No arguments with you over the way speedway is run, but that hasn't anything to do with who is or isn't put forward on the Sports Personality list.

Profile is only built by those who choose to build it. The mainstream media, especially the BBC is very much a closed shop in this area. That is the problem. It's already been demonstrated that outside of the Olympics, where lets be honest, most of us will watch anything and get into the spirit of it, Ainslie's sailing 'achievement' was greeted with extreme apathy by the UK public. Approximately 30,000 viewers for this pinnacle Blue Riband event says all that needs to be said. Less than half of what a minority sport like speedway garners for a run of the mill league match in a league that is mocked by the sports own supporters!

I think we're looking at Tai, Adam, Ty, Ricky and Jacob. Seems strong enough to me, especially if Jacob can continue to kick on and Ty is anywhere close to the level he was riding at this year.

Is that the best you can come up with? Very poor. One could equally say the same about golf. However, being a sports fan I wouldn't dismiss any sport, even ones I don't like.

It is the viewing figures for the Sky Sports channel on the week highlighted. In the case of the Americas Cup for example.. it shows :- 6 LIVE AMERICAS CUP SAILING (SUN 2100) 28 The '6' refers to it being the 6th highest watched programme on the channel that week... then the name of the show and the time it was on.. then the '28' is the viewing figure in 000's.. so 28,000. Elite League Speedway in the same week was 72.. 72,000. The GP was consistently above 100,000 so 4-5 times more than the heavily hyped, oh so popular event that Ainslie gave some advice in. The figures had dropped off, not helped by red button usage and some other factors. Average viewers in 2012, the worst year were still 67,454...