BWitcher

Yes, you're being childish and this post confirms that even more.

You're being childish now WK. Name me a league of a higher level in the UK please? Definition of Elite "a group of people considered to be superior in a particular society or organization." The Elite League is superior to the Premier League, you've admitted that as any EL team would beat a PL team. The name is correct, it doesn't matter how much you stamp your feet and refuse to accept it.

The future is irrelevant, its the present that matters. You herby admit that any Elite League team would beat a Premier League one. That quite simply makes the Elite League the highest level of racing in the UK, which means it is the 'Elite'. The name is 100% accurate.

Absolutely 100% spot on. It's not rocket science is it.

Greg Hancock, Billy Hamill, Alan Grahame, Simon Cross, Scott Smith, Mark Robinson, Jan O Pedersen, Erik Gundersen, Gert Handberg, Troy Pratt, Dalle Andersson etc. Not sure if there is a pattern there or not.....

So you've found one World Final, reported crowd of 41,000 which is there or thereabouts with what Cardiff gets. Of course that figure may well be exaggerated, as most of the Wembley attendances were. As has been stated, there were a lot more speedway fans attending the sport in 1989 than there are today, so in comparison, not a great turnout. Not a great lineup either..

Bradford was nowhere near a sell-out so capacity has nothing to do with it. As has been pointed out, the attendance was less than 20,000. Nor was the attendance at Bradford in 1990 anywhere close to the attendance in 1985 at Bradford also. I was at both. Try and twist it as much as you like, the original point was a claim was made that the old World Finals achieved bigger crowds than Cardiff does. It's been pointed out that you have to go back quite a way to find one that did achieve a bigger crowd and there is only you who is trying to argue the point..... and failing to do so. We're not dealing with ifs, buts and maybes, we're dealing with reality. The best estimate given is 1982 for the last World Final to surpass a Cardiff crowd.

Cut through your waffle and we get to the real only comparable point. A ONE-OFF World Final, in a time where there were far more paying customers attending speedway across the UK attracted 24,000 in the UK. Nowhere near the level that attend Cardiff. That was the debate in question, not other GP's in remote countries.

Once again you are inventing things to suit your argument. Andy smith qualified from the gp challenge meeting a number of years running. You have claimed half of the current gp field wouldn't have made a world final if we were using the old system. Now this claim either means you think the old system was very poor as we ended up with a final missing many of the top riders, or you actually believe that the riders currently in the gp (half of them) are not the best riders in the world right now. I'll give you Chris Harris, let me know the others. Of course you can't pick the qualifiers like Smolinski either or you are defeating your own argument.

Glad you've finally realized your problem, now the thread can back on track

You're making yourself look more silly with every post. My reference to the old world finals was in relation to the fallacy that is always put forward, which you are now doing yourself, that the racing was so much better in bygone days. It wasn't. You had many gate and go races then just as you do today. That's not slagging off, that is reality. Your true colors are now shining through, you're throwing out inaccurate statement after inaccurate statement simply because you are yearning for a bygone era that is gone and isn't coming back. Everyone has the chance to qualify for the gps. It's strange though, those that qualify tend to struggle mightily, yet you are claiming existing gp riders aren't up to the job....

Let us know the fairy story then.

I've not said anything about preferring gp's or world finals. You have though, thus revealing the biased nature of your argument. For what it's worth I prefer a world championship where everyone gets a chance over at least 60 rides. That doesn't mean I slag off the racing under the old system, or claim the racing is much better in the current one. The old world finals and qualifying rounds were great in their day. The gp's are great now. They're both speedway. They're both great.

No they weren't. In fact once qualification was assured, many riders would ease up and cruise through the meeting, unless they had a shot at winning it. Some would let fellow countryman score points to progress too. There was some great racing, there was some poor racing, just like most speedway meetings down the years. Now you're resorting to picking and choosing the GP's you want to compare too. You're comparing a World Final in Sweden, to a GP in Italy..

Next we'll be hearing about the much better racing in World Finals of years gone by.. It's been interesting reading the reports of the World Finals of yesteryear in the British World Champ features in the Speedway Star, those finals in the late 40's and 50's.. race after race won from the gate.

No you didn't and no the racing wasn't more cut throat. They weren't poor, I used to love them, the same as I love GP's now.

Which one? 1994 in Vojens? 1993 in Pocking? How about the last one in England, 1990 at Bradford? The World Final was dying, crowds were tumbling. You have to go a long way back to get to crowds being as big as Cardiff.

Lmao. Oh dear.

Yes it is, they show you what CAN be done with the sport. Still, in typical speedway fans style knock something that is done well.. but continue to bleat when served up crap every other week through the season.

Not may, it is the highest level of standard. Therefore it IS the Elite. If you can name me a stronger league in the UK, you have a point. If you can't, it remains the Elite.

Wrong, we know pretty much exactly what would have happened. Riders like Egon Muller and Jerzy Szakiel (excuse spelling) would not have won World Titles and those titles would have gone to the top riders around at the time. The other riders weren't told not to beat T-Rick, but there was an era when they were told, sorry but T-Rick gets first gate pick every race.... a quite significant advantage. I don't think the competition he faced during that period was all that hot either, compared to other eras. I'm not and I doubt anyone will say T-Rick wasn't a great rider, but he in my opinion wasn't at the level of dominance of a Nielsen/Mauger etc.

Why does it get to you? It is accurate. It is the highest level of speedway in British Speedway, therefore it is the 'Elite'.

No, you are wrong, every rider didn't have the same opportunities in a GP. For starters, other all time greats never rode in a GP. Had GP's been around, some of them would have won more World Titles. Secondly, Rickardsson didn't even have to win more races in some seasons, it was almost handed to him on a plate in the farcical system used. Each rider wasn't given the same opportunity, THAT was the problem.

T-Rick could certainly come from the back when required and was one of the great riders.. best ever, not close. Not utterly dominant in league racing like the true greats were, plus rode in a somewhat easier era and most of all for a portion of his career was given a massive massive advantage due to the GP format in place at the time.

All that matters in the EL v PL debate is.. 1: The Elite League IS the Elite League, it is the highest level of competition in the UK. An Elite League team would beat a Premier League team with ease, even now. It is named correctly. 2: The Premier League is NOT the Premier League so is named incorrectly. 3: The costs for running an EL meeting have always been far higher than the Premier League, yet the admission prices are only £1 or £2 more. Premier League fans, you're getting ripped off Quality of racing, that's another argument.