BWitcher

Most of that riders in that era are billed as being better than they were. Had the current format existed I can absolutely GUARANTEE you that many of them you wouldn't have thought anywhere near as highly. The simple facts are the top riders in each team didn't race each other very much, there was no Heat 13 and 15, you rarely saw them get beat and their status of being stars was cemented. I'm far from saying they weren't good riders, because they were but in all eras you always have 2 or 3 riders who stand out from the rest.

Yep, that's my point.

Still a poor signing given the rest of the top 5 thus far.

Only when it suits certain parties to do so....

Perhaps the BSPA should get their house in order and not put an average on their website. It's not much of a leap to assume when they put '70.00' it means 7.00. Interestingly all the averages have now disappeared. Should he now come in on a lower figure, the conspiracy theories and accusations will begin and all of it will have been caused by incompetence. Correct. My first thought was this was further evidence he was on a 7. It wouldn't be exciting news if they announced that... Now the averages have disappeared of the BSPA site perhaps there is hope..

Thanks Leicester Hunter, that makes perfect sense. The season we are discussing though is 1984 when the starting rules changed.. perhaps they changed the rules on the averages at the end of that season? Then what Moxey is saying regarding Gundersen would make sense.

Musielak listed on the BSPA site with an average of 70.00 One assumes it should be 7, which makes him an awful, awful signing.

It's irrelevant when I 'arrived' on the scene. It was actually 1984 I first started attending regularly when Wolverhampton re-opened. Do you know when the rule was changed? Not looking to start an argument here, genuinely interested and more than happy to learn! The 40 exclusions makes more sense now you are including extra meetings.. open meetings of course will certainly not have effected his average. Gundersen had 43 meetings for Cradley, including challenges in 1984 averaging 9.54. In the league he had 24 meetings averaging 9.21. That's purely league, not including League Cup meets which likely counted towards averages?

Well they haven't counted as a ride or in the averages since I have been following speedway, which was from around 1985. Nor is it anyway possible that Gundersen suffered '40 tape exclusions' but still averaged over 9 as has been claimed if they did count. Not sure how many matches that year, but based upon 36 matches.. 36 x 4 is 144 rides... 40 of those are 0 from his exclusions... even if he won the other 104 rides.. his average would only be 8.67.... and lets face it, he didn't win them all did he.

Ronnie Correy had a very light punishment when he failed an alcohol test at the 4's. About 10 days I think it was. Certainly no more than 2 weeks. No bearing on this though as rules have changed since then no doubt.

I didn't think tape exclusions counted as a ride or to the averages?? Might be wrong though!

So he's forgot how to ride a bike in that time has he? Lindgren has!

I don't know what people are fussing about. Lindgren is poor, worse than THJ many have said on another thread. He should be re-assessed to an average below that of his. Musielak a 4.00. No brainer. Peter Karlsson, he's a year older so should have his average reduced by a pt also. This is speedway though, so they won't do this I bet you. Injustice.

No it isn't common sense. It should have no bearing whatsoever in the end verdict.

Why is this still going? Witchhunt, nice kid, smiled when saw him in pits, have you seen him in pits, hang him, why, nothing wrong done, young had a drink, is it bad, have you drunk? poole bashers, what a talent, great rider, saw him pass live once, have you, innocent victim, mike lee best ever, wayward, not his fault, ward lee same different, no, talent is there, lee. knockers, what have you all done, do gooders, string him up, so talented, lee, bspa treated him so bad, he done wrong yes, innocent for sure. victim, you people only happy when he goes of rails, like lee, destroy him, best ever, ward up there, no young talent around, ward, emil, zmarlik, pawlickis, world class. who'd you pick, leave him alone, bullies, you can't debate, think he's great.

Not really as in the GP they are racing for lots more, top 8 for next year for starters.. so every point is vital. Not so in a one-off meeting once you've had a couple of bad heats.

The only 'false' average is the one Palm Toft obtained in the EL where as per all the second strings he has an inflated average. It makes 100% perfect sense for him to use his PL average. The average he obtained riding in the PL. It's simple. However the issue is many speedway fans are just that... and it seems promoters at times when rules are involved. Speedway has very basic rules. I agree to an extent. However, what DOES stop fans attending is when the rules aren't applied correctly, or manipulated. I would argue the exact opposite and argue you are no speedway fan if you are happy to idly stand by when that happens. In this particular case though, nothing to see, the rules have been followed.

Be ok, till halfway through when half of them can't win.

You can have an opinion, but for an opinion to have any credence or of any value it needs to be backed up. Yours isn't backed up. Which renders your opinion worthless. There is a child section of the forum, although even children under the age if 10 would make more sense.

Poole, as reigning champs have managed to strengthen! Retained Newman and replaced their weakness from last year with Paul Starke.. Correct.. as they managed to rank Newman so low, poor Poole got to make up for their lowly 1st round pick with 2nd pick in Round 2... as Lakeside took Ellis...

Let's just say they're keeping it in the family...

Fair play.. I was beginning to question your sanity!

And of course, by us not signing Starke, he fell into the clutches of Poole.

I do hope so! Neither do I Wolfsbane (in relation to the original post), but where there's smoke there is fire, so I blame you for all Wolves woes in recent seasons now...

Not knocking Bates, decent rider. But when Starke was available....