BWitcher

They don't face problems because they abide by the work permit rules.

So? Fully trained paramedics, therefore meeting the permit requirements.. and wait, there's a shortage of UK qualified staff.

Ah thought you meant stopped going as we were discussing the absent Wolfsbane. It is pretty much the same at most clubs I think. When I was last in England I went to see Wolves play just before Christmas.. unfortunately had 2 idiots sat behind me who clearly knew nothing about football, but spent the whole game slagging of everything Wolves did, particularly Sako who they had decided was the worst player Wolves have ever had... If he took a player on they would scream "Pass the ball man!".. If he passed the ball you'd get a diatribe of how he can't beat a man and wingers should.. All in a cockney accent too. It ended up with a guy to the left of me turning round and telling them in no uncertain terms to be quiet.. (or words to that effect!) And yes, Mads would be great.

Wolves fans are renowned across the country for being fickle? Not sure what you base that on. They averaged 21,712 in the relegation season from the Championship. This year, when challenging for playoffs 22,493.. Not much difference! Wolfsbane I believe hasn't attended for a while and I think it may have all stemmed from the notorious CVS public relations blunder that cost the club a fair few of its most loyal supporters.

I take your point.. However what we keep seeing is attempts to move the blame away from the promoters and the BSPA. The buck stops with them, it is their fault, nobody elses.

A load of utter rubbish of course. Work permit rules have always been in place. Indeed other sports have been pulled up on this in the past, long before the rise of UKIP etc. It's another smokescreen to deflect away from the very simple fact that ALL of this has been brought upon by the incompetence of the promoters. It doesn't matter how much they try and twist it, point the finger elsewhere. They have been consistently trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the authorities and are now in hot water as a result.

As SCB stated, I was merely refuting Tsunami's claim regarding the lower levels of football. I did also offer him a get out option by stating the Championship was an entirely different matter as there are many foreigners in it (although mostly EU). He stuck to his guns and insisted it was work permits in lower leagues than that he was referring too. You seem fully aware of the situation though and I agree with most of what you say... the exception being I don't think it was a case of 'lack of education' as the rules for the permit are pretty clear... more a case of seeing what they could get away with in traditional speedway style

The BBC will have paid to show the highlights no doubt. So, no it doesn't prove anything.

Then direct your displeasure towards the one trolling inaccurate information. Very good point, I suspect the % of illegal Australian speedway riders vastly outweighs those from other walks of life.

It took about 10 minutes, hardly time consuming.

Staggering you still can't accept you were wrong.. Let's not forget you said "My point was the football, with the dross in lower league, seems to have too low, and too broad, qualification requirements to play over here. They hardly bring people through the door, and as you imply below, there is a better case in football for them to be removed, and Brits move up a few notches and play at a higher lever" Your words. Now, where is this 'dross in the lower leagues' Where are these players playing over here due to 'too broad, qualification' requirements. As I told you at the very beginning, they don't exist. It's a figment of your imagination. There are an absolute maximum of TWO work permit players in the whole of League 2, that's 24 clubs with a squad size of between 25 and 30 players in most cases. What is more, those two players may not even need permits anyway. Let us also remember that when I pointed this out and advised you it wasn't an issue you told me:- "Bollocks The FL realise it, HA has said it and upto date footie fans all know it. If you don't TOUGH. " As we have now seen.. they don't realise that at all.

I've seen the Edit Tsunami. I've also been through every single squad in the entirety of Division 2, you can do so on Wikipedia if you wish, it's freely available information. It lists their nationality. The results are below. Accrington Stanley 15 English, 2 Scottish, 5 Irish AFC Wimbledon 27 English, 2 Irish Burton Albion 18 English, 2 Scottish, 2 Dutch, 1 Irish, 1 Australian (possible Work permit!) Bury 16 English, 2 Scots, 3 Welsh, 1 Nigerian Cambridge Utd 24 English, 1 Irish, 1 Italian, 1 Scot, 1 Australian (qualifies as lived in UK since a child) Carlisle 20 English, 1 Scot, 2 Irish, 1 Welsh, 1 Ghana (in England since a child, no permit needed), 1 Montserrat (English born so no permit needed) Cheltenham 21 English, 2 Irish, 1 Welsh Dagenham & Redbridge 19 English, 2 Irish, 1 Scot, 1 Trinidad and Tobago (Born in England, no permit needed) Exeter 17 English, 2 Welsh, 4 Irish, 1 Scot Hartlepool 27 English Luton Town 26 English, 2 Welsh, 2 Irish, 1 Nigerian (moved to England when 18 months old, no permit needed) Mansfield 22 English, 1 Bermuda (in England since a child), 1 Australian (moved to England as a child), 1 Swiss Morecambe 21 English, 3 Irish, 1 Welsh Newport County 15 English, 5 Welsh, 3 Irish Northampton Town 17 English, 1 Scot, 2 Irish Oxford United 23 English, 2 Irish, 2 Welsh, 1 New Zealand (moved to England as a child) Plymouth 25 English, 1 Irish Portsmouth 23 English, 1 Austrian, 1 French, 1 Ghana (born in England) Shrewsbury 17 English, 2 Irish, 1 French, 1 Australian (work permit guy perhaps!!) Southend 18 English, 6 Irish, 1 Welsh, 1 Dane, 1 Antigua (born in England) Stevenage 22 English, 1 Irish, 1 French, 1 Congo (moved to England as a child) Tranmere Rovers 21 English, 1 Slovakian, 3 Welsh, 1 Scot, 1 Nigerian (moved to England as a child), 1 Sierra Leone (moved to England as a child), 1 St Lucia (moved to England as a child) Wycombe 16 English, 1 Scot, 2 Welsh, 1 Jamaica (Born in England), 1 Portugal York City 19 English, 1 Antigua (born in England), 1 Grenada (born in England), 1 Guadeloupe (qualifies as French), 1 Austrian So, never mind what companies you have found, what you believe to be the case... above are the STONE COLD FACTS: There is NO problem or issue with work permit players in League 2. Indeed there are only TWO possible work permit players. They are Australians and may well have relatives that qualify them anyway. The figures for League 1 are very similar. Thus, I wasn't talking rubbish

Seriously Tsunami, I think the point you were trying to make is an ongoing debate in football regarding the number of foreign players in the Premier League and Championship. This is different to work permit players however. As regards the lower leagues, i.e. Leagues 1 & 2, there are very few foreigners and work permit players are almost non-existent. That is the reality of it.

Good post Tsunami. We can agree Not that I am saying the BSPA is perfect, but what you say here I fully agree with.

As a speedway fan I can agree with that.. but as a realist it's not going to happen. Regarding the work permits though, many of the riders mentioned would have got permits ok. It would be interesting to see who, under the criteria, would have been eligible for one and who wasn't. Then we could make an accurate judgement of how much impact it would have on the sport in the UK.

Again, it's clear you don't understand the situation. They require a work permit. Romanians do not. There is no correlation between the two at all. To obtain a permit to work in the UK you are required to meet certain standards. It is the LAW of the land. What you are saying is you feel that speedway should be exempt from the law? So you are STILL claiming there is a problem with work permit players in the lower leagues of football? Seriously? Or were you just making things up before? It's one or the other Tsunami.

Have it your way, the highest level of league in the UK isn't the most Elite one. Anything else you want to change regarding the English language?

Marvellous Tsunami, coming from the man who said.. Members 22,898 posts Posted 23 January 2015 - 08:15 PM BWitcher, on 23 Jan 2015 - 11:12 AM, said: You are the one who used the foul language. You are the one who made up a comment that 'the FL realise it' and all up to date football fans 'know it'.. You are the one who ended it by saying if I don't "TOUGH". That's hardly eloquent debate Tsunami, especially when what you are saying is for far from the truth its shocking. As said, I've been wrong in the past on here and I've apologised and admitted it. Quite clearly, you are incapable of that. Very sad.

That is all completely irrelevant to the issue at hand I'm assuming you must be in favour of open immigration? If not why should being a speedway rider make you exempt from the rules and guidelines that everyone else has to go through? As for Darcy, he was Australian U-21 Champion when he joined Kings Lynn? So he would have qualified anyway. This reinforces the point.. if they are GOOD enough, they meet the criteria.

Really Tsunami? Another personal attack I see and yet again nothing of substance to add. Point out something I have said that is wrong and you might have an issue. You've posted a whole load of utter made up nonsense on the thread so far, particularly regarding footballers in the lower leagues and are unable to be adult enough to admit that you were wrong. That speaks volumes Tsunami. Not the first time you've done that though is it. I can understand that point of view Paulco for sure. Again though, this is the whole issue. Work permits aren't and shouldn't be for taking a punt on someone who may or may not make it. They are meant to be for a proven commodity.

WK, you're digging now. The thread is about Australians not getting work permits, so someone posting "If they were Australian...." would hardly be funny would it. The only reason you thought it was funny was because he used the term black, nothing more, nothing less. Jokes about English, Irish, Jews etc that many find amusing are stereo-typical jokes.. Jews and money for example... those are the jokes where political correctness interferes... They are stereo-types, so based upon elements of truth. However, in this case there is no element of truth, its simply ill-educated nonsense that sadly many actually believe to be true.

Not rubbish at all. The work permit criteria wouldn't prevent the majority of Australians who have come to this country from riding. Without checking I suspect those three would have met the relevant criteria most seasons. The issue has stemmed from riders of lower quality than those coming over. It wasn't a harmless thing. I hate political correctness, but that comment had nothing at all to do with 'political correctness' and is PRECISELY the reason there is so much trouble and prejudice. The only way you could find the joke funny is if you had a pre-held belief that if you were black with 6 kids you would get a work permit. This is ill-educated nonsense.

Why do you think it was funny? Why would being black and having six kids have any bearing on gaining a work permit? It's nothing to do with Political Correctness...

Why? Because we don't get to see some second rate riders? Instead, those places should go to young British riders which WOULD help the sport in this country. If it was funny perhaps... Instead it was an ill-educated, bordering on racist post. As has been said, all other walks of life are required to abide by the work permit rules. Those that don't can be punished heavily, speedway should be thankful that isn't happening in this case. Despite the gibberish spouted by folk such as Tsunami, you don't see poor quality work permit players in most other sports.. I note he hasn't made further comment regarding his utterly incorrect claims regarding footballs lower leagues.

Name a higher level league for speedway in the UK. If you can, your point is valid. If you can't, the Elite League is appropriately named.