BWitcher

Except he didn't. Why was Adam Ellis not excluded the second time he jumped the start? You should be warned the first time surely.

Nice stuffing of your team mate Hans.

Why typical belle bue? If it pours down before the start nothing you can do!

I suspect Piotr Pawlicki will have made the GP's by that point as well and has the ability to be a major contender.

No,sorry can't agree with screen at all. He was very very good but there have been plenty better. Hans Nielsen for example.

You can also have two rides excluded when falling separately on different parts of the track. Technically you could say one of them was the cause of the stoppage...

Agree with all of that HA. 6 definitely too low, although it didn't ever bother me back in the day!

There are still some who don't grasp just how unfair the old tac sub system actually was. Look no further than tonights meeting in Sweden. Dackarna the better side throughout, never led by more than 8. They were hit by tactical subsitutions bringing in Chris Holder, then Darcy Ward, then Piotr Pawlicki. They lose 44-46. Yes, it gave more tactical options, but it was and still is way, way more unfair than the current system in the UK is.

Tonight's meeting is all the proof needed of what some of us have been trying to tell people on this forum for a long time. The old style tac sub system was FAR more unfair than the tactical ride system currently in place in the UK and results in far more 'weaker' teams winning. Not saying the TR system is better.. but its fairer.

I've seen it before. Riders get excluded for touching the tapes when another rider is moving, that happens all the time. In this case Zengota had been warned for moving, as such he was excluded as he was moving again. The referee will have adjudged them to be 2 separate incidents.

I don't disagree with any of that. Ward rides Monmore as well as any rider I have ever seen there. Totally agree that Tai has the whole package put together, which I do believe Darcy will sort in time too.

I agree, that is precisely the point I am making. Being exciting does not make you the best, it's a totally different thing. History remembers the winners.

I think its longer than that Bruiser, that only takes us back to 1995 and I'm pretty certain that tapes exclusions didn't count then. I 'think', but could be wrong on this, it was changed at some point in the 80's?

Personally I believe it's impossible to judge who was a 'better rider' when looking at totally different eras. You can only judge riders on their successes against their counterparts. You are far more qualified than me to discuss the merits of those riders!

Again irrelevant. I will also remember Gollobs great rides years after I have forgotten Hancocks.. however Hancock and Pedersen are 3 time World Champs, competing in the same era pretty much as Gollob. I'm 100% sure if you asked Gollob if he would prefer 3 world titles or 1, he'd take the 3.

Totally irrelevant to the debate. I'd watch many many riders over Hancock, but it doesn't make them better than him. Hancock and Pedersen have won 3 world titles each. Gollob 1. History will remember Hancock and Pedersen as the better riders. On his day Gollob can be brilliant, with his amazing passes etc.. but on 'their day' Hancock and Pedersen don't get near to being passed.. they are away and gone. Regarding Darcy, he is good enough to win it, but so are a number of others. Time will tell.

Give what a rest, I've commented it sounds like a great meeting with a brilliant atmosphere. The kind of meeting we would all love to be at. As for the DAC reference, that's there because this thread was once again filled with his anti-playoff rhetoric. I'm also not the only one who has referenced him, at least two other posters have however DAC has personal issues and only picks out my post. Not my issue. Nor was I involved in any of the earlier 'discussions' with him. You are right though I suppose, let's just focus on the meeting. As said above, this is precisely the kind of meeting that makes speedway great.. it was tense just watching the updates so lord knows how incredible it must have been trackside. Even if it was scripted I don't think they could have come up with so many twists. Looking at the remaining fixtures now, Belle Vue could and should be aiming for maximum pts from here on in, which would give them 53. The Swindon v Kings Lynn meetings will be pivotal, Kings Lynn simply have to win their home match.. If they do, they still have a chance and it will go down to the 3 Swindon v Coventry matches, which could go either way at both tracks. It's going to be an amazing finish to the season for sure!

Texter is reporting the crowd is big, the atmosphere is great, and its extremely tense. Of course, Drop a Cog will be along later to tell us how much better it would be if there were no playoffs and how this fixture, which would have been meaningless otherwise would have been so much better.

Reality is, statistics is all that matters. i.e. how much you win.

Emil will do and say as he is told as will the other Russians. They likely have very little choice in the matter. Might not be far off with the word 'living'. He does as his told.

Well I know 10 who have started going since the TR rule was introduced. So that scuppers you.

Did nobody hear the interview with Emil during the event last night? Once again he came out with the 'I can't afford it line'. Adding how great the SEC's were as it was 4 events blah blah. Sadly, he's having to follow party orders.

You're right and I thought Tai's bikes looked crazy quick at times, but Emil's yesterday would have blown those away. Yeah because he's always in the discussions about the great riders. Always seeing folks listing Mauger, Briggs, Fundin and Plechanov...

It does if you want the sport to die, very rarely have any passing and have no contact ever between riders.

You share some of my misery being a Cubs fan then. Although it finally looks like a decent team being out together there, should only get better over the next couple of seasons. Jays had a tough loss last night, the manager gibbons reacting too slowly to replace price in the 8th. Of course it's dedicated!