BWitcher

Yes you are missing the point massively. Firstly, 'quality of racing' has little bearing on attendances... that is proven. Secondly it does increase interest and awareness, you've admitted it in your post. "Crowds are down! What can we do!.. ah yes, those meetings still get good crowds.. get rid of them!" That's the way to do it.

Because that is the method used in that sport. Speedway another one is used. Playoffs isn't unique to speedway, if it was, you'd have a point. There are many sports that use it to determine their champions.

We do have an outright champion. That is the team that wins the Grand Final. Just like the winner of the Darts Premier League is the winner of the final. Just like the winner or the Grand Final in Rugby League are the Outright Champions and so on. As for Birmingham, so what? They got beat in the final, good season, came up just short. You can't say "Oh they should have been champions" etc as you don't know if they would have finished top. Would the pressure have got to them earlier? One thing you could do is give the team that finishes top of the league a bigger advantage. Perhaps a certain pts start for example.

And here in lies the rub.

To be fair, I think it has always been so... just with the instant communication now everyone reads about it.

Simply because there is absolutely no logical reason as to why it would be. Basically the argument we've seen presented is.. "I don't go to speedway anymore because of the playoffs. I only go to the playoffs now" That makes sense.

There's also a heck of a lot of sports that have playoffs, and don't suffer as a result. Which suggests the issue isn't the play-offs but something else.... The reality is its a combination of things.. the playoffs not being one of them.

That's irrelevant and should have nothing to do with who is or isn't on the list. The point of the list is to separate those with an artificially low average who have spent most of the season as a heat leader... and those with an inflated average who spent most of the season as a second string.

We have... the question is... Have you? as it refutes your claim!

Really? That would be interesting as the majority of people who have stopped going did so long before the playoffs came along.

Why would Zengota be on the heat leader list?

Spot on and with the playoffs there are more meaningful fixtures. Well done for presenting another argument in their favour! No you can't, unless you are making it up. I will spell it out for you plainly and simply. CROWDS WERE DECLINING BEFORE THE PLAYOFFS. Your analogy is like setting a bonfire alight.. then when 75% of it is burned, you throw a bucket of water on it, but it continues to burn... and you blame the water for it burning.

It would be higher.. it was even higher when two teams met who could both win the league.. The most tension packed meeting I went to was 1993, Wolves v Belle Vue, league title decider. That wasn't replicated till the playoffs came along and Wolves raced in a playoff final. Sure, I attended Wolves v Swindon in 1996 when Wolves clinched the league that year, but as good as it was, it hadn't the nail biting tension 1993 or the playoff finals had. The difference is, we now get that amazing atmosphere and tension every year, not once every so often.

So tell me, who gets the biggest crowds. Team top of the league with poor to average racing, or same team bottom of the league with very good racing? Ah, yes. Every season we're getting this. Its madness. I've lost count of the amount of times this has happened.. Oh hang on.. perhaps I haven't.. perhaps you have a list of all of these heat leaders that have been 'drafted in' at the end of the season just for the play-offs?

Of course you agree with it TWK.. even though it has absolutely no substance to it again. The arguments Aces presents make little sense. People were more interested how high they could finish in the league before.. but they aren't now. Why? That makes no sense at all. There is still a league, if finishing 6th rather than 7th rocks your boat you can still finish 6th rather than 7th. Absolutely nothing has changed in that respect, so that argument is null and void. We'll extend that.. perhaps finishing 4th rather than 5th rocks your boat.. it still applies, you can celebrate that if you wish... however for all those who aren't really bothered whether they finished 4th or 5th, suddenly they do care, as 4th extends your season and 5th does not. Playoffs wins again, both sets of fans happy The crux of all this however is the fact that some speedway fans feel the need to invent arguments to suit their anti playoff stance. Even though they have absolutely no evidence to back it up. They can't point to any sport to back it up. If playoff's causes such a drop in attendances as is claimed, it would be seen across other sports too. These sports, which are businesses would soon realise that and change. Why don't they? Quite simply, because they don't cause this mythical drop. They have the opposite effect. The declining attendances is generally the only thing anti-playoff folk can hang their hat on.. although again, it's irrelevant. Had speedway attendances been stable before the play-offs they might have had a case, however they weren't, they were in decline... a lot more fans had left the sport prior to the playoffs than have since. There are many, many reasons for the decline of attendances in speedway.. the play-offs isn't one of them. Another post in favour of the play-offs and doesn't realise it!

lol.. another posts an argument for the playoffs... and doesn't realise it.

Here we go again.. The quality of racing. The quality of racing means zip, nada, zilch. Does Peterboro operate to big crowds? No they don't.. in fact they struggle consistently.. yet they're always praised for their 'quality of racing'. Yet when Peterboro had a really successful period, winning trophies at the lower level, then again at the top level, funnily enough they were packing the fans in. Scunthope.. always praised for 'quality of racing'.. are they turning fans away there at the gate?

So Tai Woffinden doesn't fit that criteria. As I think you've mentioned earlier Grachan.. If, as is claimed by speedibee, Woffinden has dual nationality, why does he need a visa?

On Facebook TNT says he has been told PK is NOT on the heat leader list.. but he's not in our plans... go figure.

Which list is this? Have you ever made other lists? How many of these lists will Oldace be going on? What is the qualification criteria for entrance to the list? Does the list have limited space? If so, when it becomes full does someone have to go off the list? Once on the list, is one on it for life or is there a way to get yourself of it? Can any decision to be placed on the list be appealed? If so, who to?

As long as he puts in the effort whilst riding for Britain that's fine by me. He doesn't let the Aussies win does he?

He may well be Aussie at heart, who wouldn't be having lived there growing up. But the bottom line us he is legally British. Everything else is utterly irrelevant. Did they play the British anthem in Australia then? If not your point is again irrelevant.

Singing a National Anthem is embarrassing? Been a lot of folk singing another countries National Anthem at sporting events this week... shame nobody pointed it out its a no go area.

Blimey new science... You're at starman level with that post!

Totally unaware what's going on I see... Again