BWitcher

Very true, but at long last Starman has admitted Ford sets out to manipulate things his way.

Nobody has said playoffs increase crowds over the whole season.. simply that there is no logical reason why they would reduce crowds over a season. The claims have been made by the anti-playoff people who try to justify that the playoffs effect regular season crowds, when all their arguments actually point the other way. When speedway is the biggest sport in the world with the mass media coverage and money coming into the game then perhaps it can run things in that way. As regards the cup competitions.. they are on a massive slide so I would hardly hold those up as shining lights. 14,900 at West Ham for last years League Cup Semi Final isn't a 'good crowd' in football terms at all. The finals still pull in the crowds as it is a trip to Wembley but the appeal of the competition is on the slide.. as is evidenced by the teams fielded.

If it is Holder and Watt then the grading of Buzz is irrelevant. The issues will arise if you sign someone such as Pawlicki. Spot on. It's clear how the meeting panned out. Poole will have known the rider they wanted pre-meeting and ensured of course nobody else did. They'll have argued the merits of certain riders being on or off the list (ones they aren't interested in) before finally conceding. This of course leads the other hapless fools into thinking they've 'got one over on Poole'. The whole time they were being played as Buzz sneaks under the radar and doesn't appear on the list. The problem is the promoters fall for it every single year.. Ford is just too clever for them. Before Starman et al starts taking a pop, this post is actually praising Ford.

The only reason put forward to scrap playoffs is because a few folk don't like them. However, in the real world, a few folk not liking something is not enough to scrap it. If those not liking it could come up with some evidence as to why scrapping playoffs would be beneficial then perhaps they'd have a case and the sport of speedway and the MANY others who are far BIGGER than speedway might listen too. As it is, we are 45 pages in and not one piece of evidence has been forthcoming. The case is effectively closed.

Not really, only a few of the clowns who can't see when stunts are pulled and the damage it causes.. you're not usually one of them.

As some clubs have said they only broke even due to the playoffs, then there is a good chance they wouldn't stay in business.

I love it when you try and push this line. It doesn't matter how you present it, its defeating your own argument. Based on YOUR theory, such fans wouldn't be interested in any meetings bar those effecting the title race and once a team was out of the title race they wouldn't be interested. As such based on YOUR theory, there are more meaningful matches with the playoff system (discounting the actual playoffs themselves) so the system has more chance of attracting fans. It isn't even something that can be argued against. The ridiculous suggestion that keeps being put forward is speedway is struggling, let's blame the playoffs is a non entity. There is no evidence to suggest this, not within speedway or in any of the other myriad of sports that operate playoff systems. The other suggestion put forward is that the sport lacks credibility due to playoffs, again this is PROVEN as a fallacy due to the myriad of sports, some BIG sports that have no such credibility issues. Speedway crowds were declining before the playoffs came in.. considerably so. Little has changed since to stop that decline, the playoffs are one thing that has helped, but they are nowhere near enough on their own. Some of you keep saying its no good having a couple of meetings that attract crowds... so your idea is get rid of the successful part of the sport? What nonsense! You have to build on that, find ways of making other meetings as exciting. It can be done with the right promotion, some clubs in their TV meetings have shown how to do it. Some issues that would help to reverse the decline if fixed:- Constant missing riders due to racing for another team in the same country. It could quite easily be set up that Elite League race on one set of nights, PL on the others. As they do in other countries. This then allows riders to race in both leagues and NOT be missing for their team's matches. It could even be managed far, far better than now without having the separate race nights by simply planning the fixtures correctly. Speed of meetings.. There should be no reason, bar crashes, that a meeting starting at 7:30pm shouldn't be done and dusted by 9pm. Absolutely none at all. Do away with intervals, especially on cold nights. There are natural intervals after each heat. Presentation and promotion. Look around at other sports and see how they are presented and learn from it. Rebranding.. forget all the family sport nonsense, its out dated now. Market the sport as the 'extremist of extreme sports'. Market the tumbles and the crashes, the action. Just a few things, there are plenty more... Lets build on the playoffs, not get rid of something that DOES attract fans in as things will only be worse. Finally.. to WK, Sidney etc... I don't think anybody is saying that playoffs is the best way of deciding a champion per se.. just that in these modern times the sport has to adapt to survive.

I'm having difficulty remaining polite with you WK. You're not this dumb so why are you acting like it? I asked you the question about the white helmet colour to highlight the ridiculousness of your claims with the playoffs. Your answer 100% confirmed it. Its YOUR analogy we are using, not mine.. so its YOUR argument that has been lost, not mine. YOU are the one who claims that because crowds have continued to decline after something was introduced, then said something is to blame.. YOUR argument, not mine. So based on YOUR argument, the white helmet colour is to blame as well. If you want to re-think your argument and put some kind of intelligent slant to it I'm all ears.

No, but you can analyse all available data. You take 'playoffs'.. then see if 'playoffs' has had a detrimental effect in the sports it has been introduced in. If it was such a cancer a similar pattern would be seen elsewhere.. however it isn't. Neither is there a 'credibility' problem elsewhere either, that's another myth you've thrown in. Classic example, Rugby Union. Saracens finished 4th in the league but defeated Northampton who finished 1st in the Grand Final to become Premiership champions. Credibility problems? None Fans deserting the sport? Not at all There is absolutely NO evidence... I repeat.. NONE.. to suggest that playoffs have had a detrimental effect on the sport. The problems causing the decline existed before the playoffs and are still there after their introduction. One thing the playoffs HAS shown an ability to do is to get people to put aside the issues that stopped them from attending and go along to those meetings.

Whooosh

What has it done for the sport? It's a total failure. As regards resurrecting Speedway from the Ashes - it is singularly unsuccessful as is evidenced by ever decreasing Gates.

Were you happy when the sport brought by the white helmet color?

The only one wanting it 'both ways' is you... You keep telling us how the playoffs aren't successful, then you claim they are only there for the money.... I'm afraid you can't have both.

Correct so their existence is entirely logical.. If the play-offs generate more money, why would scrapping them be beneficial to the sport?

Maybe he doesn't like the song?

Funnily enough that wasn't a concern at age 8.

I've still got books filled with speedway scene simulated meetings! A folder too with all Wolves meetings written down, heat by heat, averages calculated at the bottom.. along with my own rider of the night ratings, and standings for the season! Like you I couldn't get enough stats when I was a kid. I'd be able to name every rider in every team and pretty close to their average.. same in cricket, reel of all the county teams with a good idea of batting and bowling averages.

I most certainly was.

Not likely if they don't know the words. You see, that's how it works with songs. If you know it and the words you sing along. If you don't, you don't. It's a personal choice you see. There are no rules that say you must do this, you must do that. We don't live in a dictatorship where people have to behave as you see fit for them to do so. He sung a song he will have learned as a child growing up and sung many times in his youth, likely brings back great memories for him. Good on him!

'some of his teenage years'. So not similar to Tai at all. Neither is your feeble attempt at a comparison with New Zealand coming to Twickenham. Tai sang along to a National Anthem being played in Australia, showing respect to the country he was in and their anthem. I've sung the Portuguese anthem.. I've sung the Canadian national anthem at an event in Canada and even the US national anthem. If you know a song and thousands of people around you are singing it, join in.

Actually there is an argument. Why do you think crowds are down in speedway? Not because the modern consumer is an idiot, quite the opposite.. they are far more savvy and want more bang for their buck.

Add another to the list who when they realise they can't put forward any form of viable argument.. resorts to swearing, name calling and declares they're not interested anyway.

That in a nutshell sums it up.

No you wouldn't have a riot at all. You don't get riots when the 3rd placed team in the Championship, who have finished 20pts ahead of the 6th placed team loses in a play off final... a game worth millions and millions of pounds and far bigger than anything speedway can dream about. Of course Poole were worthy champions in 2013.

Incorrect again. They are completely fair and completely sporting as that is the agreed way of deciding the champions.