BWitcher

The deal meant nothing anyway, I'm sure Blackbird rode for Peterborough when they were away, instead of a Wolves meet.

haha yes! I did think that about Kings Lynn.. Minimum of 4.. then there will no doubt be away matches for Sheffield on the same night as we have fixtures..

Hasn't he read that riot act about three times previous? Meanwhile Howarth joins Sheffield, so he's missing for away trips to Swindon, Kings Lynn..

Brilliant post sparkafag.

You may not like many sports, but there are very few team sports that don't have playoffs now. It's the way of the world.

He's not on his own. He has the following on his side. Elite League Premier League National League Danish Speedway League Swedish Elitserien Swedish Allsvenskan Swedish Division One Polish Ektraliga Poland Pierwsza Liga Poland Druga Liga + the 4 x as many fans that show up for Playoff Finals. As well as that we'll throw in Aviva Premiership in Rugby Union Guiness Pro 12 in Rugby Union Super League in Rugby League Premier League Darts AFL - Aussie Rules Football NFL - American Football MLB - Major League Baseball NHL - Ice Hockey NBA - Basketball Nascar - Auto Racing Football - promotion and relegation, various leagues around the world. + of course Both Rugby Codes in Australia and New Zeland Ever increasing forms of cricket including India Premier League So essentially every single major league in speedway operates playoffs... almost every team sport on the planet operates playoffs... but a few old timers think they know better than all the millions of people involved in those events around the world. To conclude, have this little threads to yourselves to bleat your nonsense because out their, in the real world, playoffs are here to stay.

Guitar Art hasn't made one single first class post on the thread. A lot of long convoluted waffle yes, but absolutely no substance. He just has a chip on his shoulder because Birmingham lost in the playoffs in the Elite League and lost the meaningless Gold Cup meetings. His witterings about 'home track advantage' in a tie over 2 leagues are a joke. It does not matter how he twists it, the National League AND the Premier League, under no pressure at all from outside sources have both decided that the playoffs is the best system for their leagues. Now he would have us believe they've decided to introduce something that is not financially a success for them.. absolute nonsense. THEY have access to the figures and THEY have decided the playoffs is the way to go. Whether it was unanimous or not is irrelevant, the fact is the MAJORITY voted for it. That is FACT. That is REALITY. Old time speedway fans are a major part of the problem in the sport, promoters spend too much time pandering too them. Once they are gone the sport can re-invent itself and move forwards, like most other sports have done. Before you have another pop I consider myself an old time speedway fan.. A point that has escaped most of your attention is what I have said all along, I PREFERRED the old system too. However, I am not blind to the benefits of the new one.

You've said this now around 10 times on the thread, that's not debating, that's acting like a child again. Once again, simple question. Why do you think the National League AND the Premier League went back to the playoffs? I have little doubt you won't answer it Sidney, neither will White Knight.. because the answer destroys the entire crux of your argument.

You see, we can discuss it civilly! A question I would ask now is, what was causing your enthusiasm to decline do you think prior to that.. as that wasn't playoff related. The picture is far, far bigger than playoffs as I have been trying to get across.

So basically you stopped going because you relocated and your enthusiasm was already on the decline. I agree that not running fixtures isn't ideal, but that comes down to the poor organisation of the BSPA.... like many of the issues!

Very sad that despite making constructive posts and asking genuine questions all Sidney and WK can do is continue to hurl insults. I'll try one more time to see if genuine debate can be engaged with either of you. Why do you think the National League have re-introduced playoffs?

Sidney, I've asked you a polite question. Why do you think the National League have decided to re-introduce playoffs this year?

Birmingham not have a home track then I take it? That's a ridiculous argument. Last years Gold Cup wasn't a play off final so Birmingham were champions. Perfectly fair by the rules of the sport for that season. This year the champions will be the winners of the playoffs, whoever wins them are champions. Again, perfectly fair by the rules of the sport for that season.

There you go again.. 'Unfair' and 'Credibility'. We'll look at unfair first shall we. The rules of the sport are agreed upon by all promoters and voted in. Every team knows the rules and the method used to determine the champions. That is not unfair. Unfair would be if halfway through a season rules were changed. Now, I think we can all agree that speedway has a 'Credibility' problem. So let's analyse things and see if we can work out why that is. The best way to do that is to take a group of sports. We'll take 4 in this case. Speedway Football Rugby Union Rugby League. Which of these sports has 'credibility' issues according to the general sporting fan? Not football, not Rugby Union, not Rugby League... but Speedway does. So, we have to find out what makes speedway different. The first topic we will address is 'playoffs'. Do any of these sports have play-offs? Yes they do. All 4 of them. However, only speedway has 'credibility issues'. If playoffs were the cause the other sports would suffer credibility issues too. So play-offs isn't the cause. Another topic that is sometimes brought up is the points system used in speedway, i.e. gaining extra pts for away wins by a certain margin. Do any of the other sports have strange rules in this area? Yes they do. Rugby gives bonus pts depending upon the tries you have scored.. Football has the away goals rule. Do they effect credibility? No they don't. So we can confine the points system to the not a problem bin also. Next up we will look at the issue of guests and missing riders. Now what do we find here? You don't see players missing matches for their clubs in football or the rugbys because they are playing for another team in the same country.. or indeed another team in another country (internationals excepted of course). Nor do you see players from other clubs playing for a team for the night. Hence, here we have a major difference and plausible reason for credibility problems within the sport of speedway. Next up we will look at the issue of tactical rides/double points. Does such a system exist in the other sports that allows one team if losing to gain an advantage? No it doesn't, so again we have a key difference and another plausible reason for credibility problems within the sport of speedway. So quite simply from a very simple 5 minute analysis we've established that the following do not cause an issue:- Playoffs Points System The following DO cause a credibility issue Guests Tactical Rides/Double Points.

No, a 'thicko' was actually an insult to those not as blessed as others. Sidney is far worse than that, as is yourself on this topic. Simply too stubborn to even listen to what is being told. Neither of you have come up with ONE point except for 'you don't like the playoffs'. Nobody disputes your right to not liking them. What is disputed and is factually dismissed is your claim that the sport has no credibility due to playoffs and that the majority of fans don't like playoffs. The evidence is there for you to see all around in sports of all different guises.. it is there for you to see in speedway in almost every country it is raced in.. and MOST importantly in our own country where the system you advocate has been tried by both the Premier League and National League and been ditched... because it wasn't as succesful as the playoffs. That is the reality. Now you can continue to act like an obstinate fool if you wish, that is your decision, but you can't and never will change the truth.. which is why the playoffs are here to stay.

Simple question Sidney, which you still haven't answered. Why are the National League re-introducing playoffs? As has been explained numerous times.. The Premier League and National League have tried both systems. The 'league' which you advocate with an additional cup competition at the end.. and a league with playoffs. They have BOTH decided to go with the playoffs. Ask yourself, why have they chosen to do that?

Not forcing you to do anything, I have been trying to educate you. You prefer to ignore reality and spout nonsense and make yourself look very foolish. Your decision, nothing I can do about that. If you want to engage in adult debate Sidney, try answering the questions you are posed.. not just ramble incoherently over and over. Answer me this simple question. Why have the National League decided to re-introduce playoffs?

Absolutely 100% spot on Alan F.. and nobody has ever denied Issue 1. The problem on this thread is a few folk who think Issue 1 means the sport is losing money... when Issue 2 quite clearly shows that not to be the case.

I wasn't referring to you You held your hands up, no issues at all. The adult thing to do.

When people make posts that deserve some respect then I agree. However we have three or four posters on here who quite simply cannot process information. They cannot see what is in front of their face. Their idea has been TRIED and FAILED. No supposition, no if's, but's or maybe's... their system has been scrapped as of 2nd December. They wanted hard and fast evidence, the National League has provided it. Yet none of them even acknowledge it and blindly ignore what is happening in the real world and continue to post the same thing over and over and over. Such posts deserve no respect, indeed such posts are essentially trolling and against forum rules. Throw in that one of them is a multiple account holder flagrantly flouting forum rules because he thinks he is clever and you get this mess. It has nothing to do with being a keyboard warrior, what is being said on here is tame compared to what would happen in any business environment if such actions were displayed. I am in control, as evidenced by real life events. Most recently backed up on the 2nd December when the National League having tried your system of the winners of the league being champions and staging a Gold Cup at the end of the season abandoned it because it was WORSE. So again, not me who is saying it.. but real life events. Another post that is for the children's section. You admit playoffs work financially but then claims fans won't go because they are unfair! You do realise that playoffs exist in many, many sports, none of which have any problems with perception or being unfair. Does Rugby Union have a problem with perception because they use playoffs? No they're enjoying record crowds. Does Rugby League have a problem? No. Do people stop going to football because the team in 6th placed in the Championship got promoted to the Premier League over the team in 3rd? No. Do any of the multitude of other sports that use playoffs have problems? No Quite simply. as is evidenced by REAL LIFE you're making things up in an attempt to form an argument.

Because of the other reasons many folk have highlighted. Far too many missing riders in meetings. Disjointed fixture list. Poor promotion/presentation. Manipulation of rules. However, rather than address those important issues which would have an impact they try the method advocated on here of returning to a system that wasn't working before. Of course, it still didn't work and was worse than what they had changed too.. so they changed back. Will it fix the sports problems? No it won't.. not until the main issues are addressed. It's not complicated. However it shows, as has been repeated ad nauseam, the system advocated by a few on here has been given its chance and it has failed. Game over.

Because under the old system 75 percent of the sports fans stopped attending. And what you seem to be failing to grasp is, right now, in the current era, the old system has been tried by both the premier league and national league. Both have given up on it and returned to playoffs.

It doesn't happen very often. That's why you get 4 x more people come along to the playoff final. If they thought it was unfair they wouldn't be there, like your lad. They likely had a bunch of old codgers telling them that their sons had stopped going to speedway because of the playoffs.. so thought lets try the old failed system again.. it didn't take them long to realise it was a load of cobblers and changed back. One thing I will agree on though DAC is the attendances during the season won't be that much different whichever system is in place and will continue to decline until the sport sorts other issues out. We're really arguing over something that isn't particularly important. Surely you agree that a far more important issue is teams constantly missing riders due to other clubs in the UK riding on the same night? Something that could quite easily be fixed.

Ah the multi account, flagrant forum rule breaker is back.. How are Wibble and Drop a Cog getting on? Why did they get rid in the first place? Perhaps they listened to some clowns who told them it would be a good idea.. However, both leagues quickly learned it wasn't and went back. Thus nullifying any argument against them.

Both the Premier League AND the National League had playoffs. They BOTH tried what you advocate, getting rid of them and having a separate end of season contest. They BOTH lost money in doing so. They BOTH have gone back to play-offs. You cannot get any more hard and fast evidence than that. Your system has been tried, TWICE and failed TWICE. It doesn't matter what else you say, what nonsense you come out with, however much you try to deny it.