Humphrey Appleby

Yes, but the team doesn't score the bonus points, so they would (and did) inflate the combined team average if included for team building purposes. Bonus points would generally inflate a declared 1-7 by about 5 points, but teams with better team riders would be penalised more. In the worst case scenario, a team could add 14 bonus points to its team average! For me, the scoring system in team speedway should be changed so that points are only awarded for beating opponents, then the problem of bonus points goes away.

How would it actually be proved for which state a rider is eligible? I assume it goes on residence rather than birth, but what if a rider claimed to be residing in another state?

Indeed. I can to some extent understand them printing Muddlo's nonsense on the grounds of 'hearing both side of the argument', but to have no counterbalancing comment just comes over as extreme bias. I don't entirely disagree that if even it's not unprecedented, it's ridiculous for a judicial case to take so long when it is potentially depriving someone of their living. However, the Star or its (Managing) Editor believe that, then they should make that an editorial rather than let Muddlo spout off and continually make a fool of himself.

It just shows you how ridiculously the regulations were formulated. They also used to warble on about the Czech Extraliga, but completely failed to mention the German leagues which at least in the past were a higher standard. Australian and US (and NZ) state championships should be completely discounted for visa qualification. It should go on national championships alone.

But the Spar nonetheless keeps printing this nonsense...

I'm assuming he was still playing some sort of cricket throughout, but John Traicos had an amazing 23 years gap between playing his first test match for South Africa, and his second when Zimbabwe were granted test status.

We were talking other than the UK. The above are UK and not internationally established as separate territories, whereas the others I mentioned are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1

Those are the only sovereign Commonwealth countries in Europe, although you could also include Gibraltar, Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man who compete separately at the Commonwealth Games.

Nothing against the North East at all - even like parts of it. I do find the indignation when someone makes a sweeping generalisation about a place somewhat ironic though...

I think it's more like 1 in 5000 in the UK are Bulgarian. 1 in 400 Brits in Bulgaria. So you stopped in Varna on a cruise? I wonder what impression Bulgarians would get if they sailed-up the Tyne and alighted in Newcastle city centre on a Saturday night...

Again though, Bulgarians and Romanians are irrelevant to a discussion about speedway work permits, but others wanted to drag their biases into a conversation about the relevant merits of Commonwealth and EU riders being allowed to ride in the British leagues.

Yes, but he still made a sweeping statement about Bulgarians and Romanians being 'beggars, pickpockets, buskers and benefit collectors', and it's hardly the first time he's expressed such views. I'm not getting into a discussion about what the intentions behind it were, but it was largely irrelevant to the discussion about which speedway riders should get work permits because there are no Bulgarians and Romanians riding the British leagues, and never have been as far as I'm aware. It was just another unnecessary dig at a particular group of people, so he can hardly complain about being taken to task over it. It's nothing to do with being PC - people are just as entitled to express opposition to such remarks as those who think they should have the right to make them.

Football for one - at least players who're selected for international duty. If there's a clash, then the international team gets priority. There's always going to be these issues with double-uppers, and it hardly seems unreasonable that the parent team should get priority. Equally though, it could be well argued that riders should be encouraged to ride at a higher level, so BEL teams should always have priority. These sorts of arguments are symptomatic of why speedway just doesn't progress. Both leagues need to cooperate with each other to survive, and the BPL also needs to accept that as the second tier, it should be providing a supporting role to the top tier. That means encouraging riders to ride at a higher level.

There are only 6 countries outside of Europe where speedway is actively raced - 2 in North America, 1 in South America, 1 in Africa and 2 in Oceania. Furthermore, most of the decent riders from those countries would be riding in Europe anyway.

But the FIM's proposal doesn't solve the problem. Riders will still potentially be riding for two different teams in the same competition, and the notion that they pick one will still make a farce of a true test of teams. Is the FIM are serious, they'd go down the franchise route and try to sell the concept to television and sponsors. To those who'll say there's no fan interest, well there were plenty of naysayers when this was done in other sports, and maybe speedway also needs to be attracting a different audience. Until then, the 'World Speedway League' is nothing more than a grandiose name for a cobbled together 4TT, and the FIM seriously think that riders are going to accept reduced earnings as a result of it?

Far too many competitions of dubious provenance and duplication, and yet the FIM seems to have the gall to complain about riders doing too many leagues! Speedway is largely European based, so it makes little sense to have separate World and European competitions. If it's an issue of who hosts the rounds and how the money is distributed, then that's something the FIM should be looking at rather than setting-up rival competitions. I can see the justification of having 'European Championships' for countries without an extensive professional scene, but don't see the value for the main league countries.

Well maybe, but if there's a precedent of riding in more than two leagues and rider duties aren't required on a particular day of the week, then why should they be restricted from earning? Where does one draw the line as well - are they also not allowed to take open bookings? What happens if a 'league' declares itself a series of open meetings to get around the restriction? The whole idea just hasn't been thought through properly, and maybe the FIM should just stick to sorting out the messes they've created with FIM Europe amongst others.

Well like having two parallel GP competitions in the SGP and SEC. However, it's amazing that the FIM allows GPs to be staged willy nilly with much regard to league programmes, and then grumbles about their own ill-conceived competition being diluted. Yes, and it was already amended so as not to penalise players moving to/from summer clubs. I doubt it would stand-up to any legal challenge if it's seen to be actively keeping players out of work. The FIM would better served acting as coordinating body to try to coordinate the various league and international fixtures, and try to come-up with some sort of rider sharing system.

Riders were just ordered to move though, and their promotions didn't have a lot of say in it.

Wasn't it when the points limit came in, sometime in the late-70s?

That's because Indian cricketers need visas. An open-door policy was being advocated for Commonwealth riders in speedway. Of course, that Indian cricketers can make more money by playing in the IPL for 6 weeks, is probably also a significant factor.

The comment wasn't about controlled immigration, but a blanket statement about people from two particular countries. Also one that's irrelevant when it comes to who should be allowed to ride in British speedway.

No, you made one of your usual sweeping statements about entire nations. Anyway, back to the actual topic of this discussion. How many Bulgarian and Romanian riders are displacing British and Commonwealth riders? In fact, how many Bulgarians and Romanians have ever ridden in the British leagues, even though they actually do race speedway in those countries?

Then what's the big secret?

So how come both of those countries are also in the EU? The EU does not dictate who the UK can admit from outside the EU. That's UK government policy, which is currently responding to the clamouring of the 'get tough on immigration' lobby.