Humphrey Appleby

Not basing it on the NZ GP at all. Their staging costs were certainly significantly higher, but in any case, the fees charged depend on what BSI think they can wring out of the locals. However, someone in Gorzow City Council did go public with their staging costs, and I have heard from other sources about what gets charged. Television and sponsorship money goes to BSI, not the local organisers, with the exception that a GP organiser is allowed to have (I think) six advertising boards to sell local sponsorship. The in-stadium sales may not go to the local organiser at all - it depends on the relationship between them and the stadium, although of course it will be factored into the stadium owner's expected revenues. Yes, but in that case the stadium isn't being built on the basis of getting a GP which was your assertion. Gorzow were reportedly charged 300K for staging a GP, and Warsaw allegedly asked for that too (and only wanted to pay 200K) so it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume Torun might be in a similar ballpark. Then you have the FIM inscription fee which is multiple thousand pounds (can't remember off the top of my head, but 20K for a GP comes to mind), the provision of hotel rooms for riders and officials, 250 free prime seats for FIM/BSI dignitaries, track preparation, provision of advertising boards, stadium stewarding and security, and other assorted organisational costs. So I don't think another 100K would be unreasonable at all, and is probably on the conservative side. I never worked at a sporting event for free. So you'd invest 7 million euros on the possibility of getting maybe 3 GPs and 1 SWC event over the capital depreciation period of the project? Events over which you have limited control, where there's now competition from the SEC, and the organisation of which can (and does) go badly wrong which could wipe out expected attendances in following years (just ask Tampere)? In that case I'm happy to have poor business acumen and keep my money in my pocket. And Torun will be staging at least seven or eight (possibly ten) of those meetings per year, and you can be reasonably certain they'll be doing so for at least 10 years unlike staging a GP or SWC. The returns may be smaller per event, but the returns are more reliable over time. Belle Vue will never make that stadium pay on the back of GP or SWC, even more so with just a 6,000 capacity.

Well whatever, but if he was offered Polish level money in Britain I'm sure he'd be amazingly rejuvenated. He's a professional sportsman and rides where he'll get the best returns. As for being good publicity for the sport - speedway is so far off the radar nowadays that it won't make the blindest of differences who or where he rides.

He said he'd asked BSI for footage to help attract sponsors which had not been forthcoming.

I don't really know how it was financed, but either way, I doubt a GP or SWC would greatly influence the financing decisions. In the meantime, this week's Spar actually suggests that the GP should be taken away from Tampere in favour of Germany. I had to laugh though, at the complaints about 'venomous comments' and 'poison' emanating from social media, as if it's our fault that BSI have put on two crap GPs. And for anyone under any illusion how BSI 'raises the bar', the interview with Martin Smolinksi is quite revealing.

Well to be something of pendant, there was a short-lived autonomous West Indies federated state between 1958 and 1962, although the cricket team predated it (although it also has to be said the Australian cricket team predated Australia as a political entity by some years).

With all due respect, what do you base this assertion on? Why would teams and/or councils fund multi-million zloty construction costs on the basis of getting maybe getting a GP for 3 years, and an SWC event event even less frequently? We're not speculating. BSI's accounts are publicly available, the money spent by some local governments on GPs (Cardiff and Gorzow in particular) is in the public domain, and I think Bill Buckley also went public with his staging costs for the NZ GP. I've also been told by separate reasonably reliable sources what BSI charges, so I think fair guesstimates on the potential returns of a GP can be made. I think I saw that Torun's stadium came in at £6.5 million. Assuming the above figure is correct, £250,000 might conceivably be profit, so that will take 26 GPs to recoup the building cost. I wouldn't invest my money on that basis. Togliatti obviously didn't want to stump up the asking price even before the recent difficulties, and BSI probably didn't want to deal with gangsters either.

The old White Mountain. His posts were always entertaining...

So the shale must have been stored somewhere for 6-7 weeks, prior to the Warsaw GP.

It would have happened regardless, not least because of legal requirements, but it had little to do with the declining use of British riders. The main reason for the influx of indifferent foreign riders, was the-them-and-us attitude of the NL and BL, and lack of cooperation between the leagues. Instead of acknowledging that the second tier should effectively be a support competition to the top tier, the NL actively competed for established riders. This was also manifested in the requirement to pay transfer fees for riders already with British promotions (which were generally British), whilst unsigned riders from abroad could be signed-up for nothing. You could also point to the abolition of second halves and junior competitions around that time, along with a decline in the grasstrack scene, that limited development opportunities for riders. Whilst efforts have subsequently been made with developmental competitions since then, now economic factors simply don't encourage people to choose speedway as a sport.

That was historically the case, but rules have now been changed to only allow internationally-recognised sovereign states to participate, which is essentially synonymous with being a member of the UN nowadays (with three exceptions). This doesn't affect pre-existing NOCs from non-sovereign states (e.g. Puerto Rico and Bermuda), but for example Curacao was not recognised after its split from the Dutch Antilles (albeit remaining as an internal country within the Netherlands). Curacao athletes were allowed to compete under the Olympic flag in London 2012 as they'd already qualified before the dissolution of the Dutch Antilles, but presumably must now compete for the Netherlands. Ironically, Aruba (another Dutch constituent country) is still allowed to compete separately as it had already had an NOC established under the old rules. What this means in practical terms is that England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can't compete separately at the Olympics.

Confusingly, the country code is 'GB' and 'GBR', but that's just short hand.

You actually live on an island called Great Britain. There is no country called Great Britain, although there is a speedway team representing the constituent geopolitical divisions of the island. I do agree with you about 'Team GB' though.

The capacity of the stadium was close to 70,000, and the stadium was fairly full from my recollection (and I was there). I see to remember the attendance being reported as being more than 50,000, but even assuming normal speedway exaggeration, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility. Where am I defending it? The fact remains though, that despite attempts by SGP adherents to re-write history, latter World Finals held in decent stadiums had comparable if not better crowds than today. Yes, but you're forgetting they also have to pay BSI a hefty fee to stage a GP, and possibly also the track as well. The figures leaked about Gorzow were eye watering. Which is why councils subsidise GPs, but none of this goes to speedway and almost none to the council and the cost of building stadiums runs into millions. This is of course the assumption, but there's actually been various independent studies that dispute the value of these sorts of events. The number of non-locals attendees staying in the town is usually a relatively small percentage of the total, and they can displace spending of non event going locals who avoid the city on event days. It probably depends on the event and place, but I think it more likely that Torun's stadium was built on the back on the popularity of league speedway in the city. After all, you can't guarantee you'll even a GP for more than a few years at time, and certainly not a SWC more than occasionally. I didn't think Manchester City Council invested anything - they loaned the money didn't they, and I'm sure a number of people on here questioned how Belle Vue ever expect to repay the loan. I'd be surprised if Manchester City Council really loaned the money on the back of a promise of a GP or SWC though, unless they're totally inept at doing due diligence checks.

The Terry Lindon regime. I think the Serious Fraud Office finally managed to pin something on him a couple of years ago.

Qualification should be on merit, and not on the basis of hand-picking. Countries staging GPs should also be required to ensure that all qualified riders are allowed to ride there. You're never heard of competitors being banned from the Olympics or World Cup because they come from a dodgy country.

No, because our representative federation is not just for England in speedway. Because it's a different sport and there are separate federations for each constituent country in the Commonwealth Games, and there quite a lot of other non-sovereign territories represented in that as well. We don't enter the Olympics as 'England'. Well the speedway team actually represents Great Britain, not the United Kingdom, so strictly speaking the diagonal red cross should be removed from the Union Flag as that represents Northern Ireland.

Yes they were, and no it wasn't. What could have been a fantastic development has been nothing but detrimental to the sport because BSI were incapable of executing it properly (and not for the first time). It's more-and-more apparent there's a lack of planning and supervision by BSI - which is why fiascos keep happening. If you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail. I think it's highly questionable what taking a GP to the likes of Tampere does for the sport, and nothing has come of the venture in New Zealand except another promoter being burned. With the greatest of respect to Tampere, it's never going to be a major tourist destination, and even assuming it's used to attract interest amongst the speedway laity there, how many will return after witnessing two dreadful meetings? It's done more damage than anything else. This of course assumes that BSI are really interested in 'broadening the world championship to new markets' or having 'ambition'. They go to places where they can find a promoter and/or tourist board willing to fork over their asking price, and when one market is bled dry, they move to the next. And once BSI have finally milked out the market, what's going to be left for anyone who wants to pick up the pieces? I'm still convinced the old World Championship was run into the ground by the FIM who wanted to make a case for a GP series. Even during its latter days, the World Final in the Munich Olympic Stadium pulled nearly 50K fans, whilst attendances at Ullevi and Wroclaw were very respectable by today's standards. Had something like the Millennium Stadium been available in the 90s, I have little doubt that you'd have got similar if not bigger attendances for a World Final as for a GP. Equally, cable/satellite television was still in its infancy in the 80s and even 90s, unlike the multiple channels all looking for cheap content nowadays. I'm sure the World Championship then, would easily have got television coverage now, although I don't doubt the SGP makes a better package to sell. So which GPs are being held at Leszno and Belle Vue? It may have been bigged up as a motivation, but I very much doubt Belle Vue was built on the back of a promise of a GP. Polish cities may be willing to subsidise speedway for prestige reasons, but you don't stage GPs if you expect to make money - certainly not on the scale of recouping stadium building costs. And with the greatest of respect, I wouldn't really put the 'National Speedway Stadium' up there as a prestigious big city venue yet... Togliatti could and should host a GP, except for the one problem that it's in Russia. No sane organiser wants to deal with the criminal bureaucracy in that country.

Speedway was never ever going to feature in the plans for those stadia. It's far too much down the pecking order nowadays, and speedway couldn't afford those venues anyway.

I thought he had one reasonable season in the BL.

I don't think their lords and masters particularly care. I suspect they realised a while ago that speedway is next to impossible to market because of its high staging costs and fan demographic, so have settled for milking the contract as long as possible. GP attendances have often been exaggerated or suspiciously rounded, and there have been reports on here of substantially discounted tickets sold (even given away?) at Cardiff on the day. I think Tampere was reported as nearly 6,000 fans, when most seem to think it wasn't much above a couple of thousand.

I think everyone knew who 'The Beggar' was...

No sure why it's sad that a club doesn't want to bankrupt themselves to fund IMG/BSI, and have Ole Olsen come and wreck a decent track. Pardubice already has its 'GP' in the Golden Helmet. The truth is that most World Finals weren't that great - the exceptions that I've seen being Bradford in 1990 and Pocking in 1993, ironically 'small' permanent tracks. However, how many were stopped or cancelled because of a poor track, or the tapes failing? How many were moved to another track the following day or week?

I have a recollection it was an assessed average, after dropping down from the BL.

Have you not realised by now, that speedway makes the rules up as it goes along? What other sport has complicated rules covering situations were riders don't turn up?

My German is limited, but where does it say anything about it being an EU policy? It just says pan-European policy which could mean anything. Apparently diving boards are supposed to be built south facing in Australia to avoid the sun, so it would seem to be common safety practice.