Cockney Rebel

Just looked at the GP website, according to his manager they're not going to say what his injuries are until he's back on track, that could months, weeks or tomorrow. Hmm? only a 5% chance of riding again this year but could be back tomorrow? Methinks a bit of kidology going on there. Wouldn't surprise me if he rode on Saturday. Wouldn't be the first rider trying the old "I'm badly hurt but I'll struggle on" ploy to give his opponents a false sense of hope. Hope he is fit enough to ride though cos it'll be storming finish to GP season.

Yes. I too remember Tiny White and I think you're under estimating his size and weight, I would put another couple of inches and another couple of stone on that, I think he could have eaten Ronnie Russell for a snack. Don't remember him ever beating anybody though, last every time by at least a quarter of a lap. Give him credit for trying though, must have really loved the sport.

Having read most of the posts on this topic I am now totally confused. People are saying the sport has to change (that of course means some of the rules) to survive, yet others complain that the sport has changed too much over the years. Remember all the changes that have been brought in and then thrown out, different league formats, different race format for the KO cup were brought in with good intentions, do you really think that the BSPA thought "Hey tha's a crap idea that's bound to annoy the fans lets put that in we can always change it again when it doesn't work". As BWitcher points out the only rule change in the past fifty years to affect what happens on the track has been the tape touching rule. When I started watching speedway in 1963 four riders went to the tapes,the two home riders wore red and blue helmet covers and the away teams riders wore white and yellow/black, the tapes went up and all four went hell for leather for FOUR laps, the winner got three points for his team, second got two points and third got one. When I go to speedway now four riders come to the tapes, the home team riders wear red and blue helmets and the away team wear white and yellow, the tapes go up and all four riders go hell for leather for FOUR laps the winner gets three points for his team and so on. Nothing has changed when you watch a race. Whether the rider is wearing a red helmet, a blue helmet, a black and white helmet or one one with floppy ears like Shawn McConnell wears, the action and excitement is the same. How the teams were put together was irrelevent then and as far as track action goes is irrelevent today. Many of the rules concerning the make up of each team have been brought about by the increasing globalisation of the sport. In the good old days even the top riders Briggs, Fundin, Mauger etc weren't riding for several clubs so the use of guests was restricted to injured riders, there was no GPs so the top men didn't go missing every other week. We have different leagues with different standards in the three main countries so there has to be a way of assessing how good or bad a rider is so riders a are given an assessed average but of course if a promoter thinks his new wunderkid has been given too high an average he will complain and try to juggle the rules to his advantage. If promoters accepted the spirit of the rules as well as the letter there wouldn't need to be so many rule changes. If a rule is stuck to to the letter and it goes against you, up goes the cry "where's the commom sense, it's doing a rider out of a job" or whatever yet if they say "in the best interest of the sport" ie: commom sense people complain that the rules are not being adhered to. Some people insist on comparing Speedway to football "Ooh you wouldn't have Wayne Rooney playing for one team one night and another team the next" that to me is like comparing bathroom tiles to a lawn mower. Footballers are JUDGED on their skills and therefore value to a team, a speedway rider's value to a team is MEASURED by the amount of points he scores. You can't judge Rooney against Rio Ferdinand cos their job on the pitch is different but you can compare Chris Holder against Mickey Dyer say cos their job is the same ie: win the race. With this in mind it's easier to level teams at the beggining of a season by using the rider's averages as opposed to judgement, so we come to a points limit and as long as we've got it, and we need it, you will get arguments and promoters trying to bend the rules so new rules are bought in to stop that happening and another promoter finds another loophole etc etc. Blimey I have gone on a bit haven't I? I could go on for longer but I can hear you all yawning and screaming obscenities the screen so I'll shut up now. But remember SPEEDWAY is the greatest sport on Earth and it doesn't really matter how the team building is done cos it's still riders going hell for leather for four laps

Bit of a bizarre question but I'll have a go; Angola Belgium Colombia Ethiopia France Galapagos Haiti Ireland Java Kenya Libya Mauritius Nepal Outer Mongolia Paraguay Qatar Romania Swaziland Tibet Uruguay Venezuela Windward Isles X...got me there. Yugoslavia? Zimbabwe. Couldn't think of a D other than Denmark. Or did you mean where individual meetings already take place?

Excellent post I was just about to make such a post myself then read yours. Riders didn't need to take so much from the sport then cos most of them had other jobs.Nowadays as you've just pointed out most of them consider themselves professional before they've even got a team place. Whilst I don't begrudge riders earning a good wage if the cost to the paying customer keeps rising they'll just stay away and the riders will be out of a job altogether. Might have been a record crowd but did the promotion make any money? Just asking.

Agree with everything you said about the damage that the GP system has done to British Speedway White Knight, unfortunately it's not going to change so we have to put up with it. However I don't think that has anything to do with young Brits not developing into World Class riders. During the nineties I had a bit of a hiatus from the sport mainly due to my two regular tracks Hackney and Rye House closing, when Rye House started up again and my enthusiasm was rekindled there were a lot of riders I had never heard of, two names kept cropping up when talking future world champions David Howe and Simon Stead although both of them are decent riders I think that both would admit they're not World beaters. So why have they not gone on to conquer the world. At Rye House we've had Eddie Kennett, Danny King, Steve Boxall and of course Tai Woffinden. Only one of those has gone on to fulfill his early promise, Kennett and King both show flashes of world class form but can't maintain it and Boxall has faffed about about in and out of the sport. These three have undoubted talent so why are they not up there with Tai? Whats the difference? Maybe it's attitude? Tai was bought up in Australia the other three in England maybe it's a cultural/attitude thing. I was reading last weeks speedway star in particular the interviews with Mikkel Bech and Lewis Blackbird. Lewis said when he was about 17/18 he was more interest in going out with his mates and having a good time rather than concentrate on speedway. Perfectly understandable and I mean no criticism of Lewis but reading the Bech interview he shows a completely different mind set choosing to come to a foreign land at such a young age to learn different tracks and thereby improve his skill on a speedway bike. By the time he reaches Lewis' age he will be a far better rider. Is this dedication to learning your craft an alien concept to todays youngsters not just speedway riders but to all of todays youth. Not I typed this before seeing BWitchers post

Wasn't aware that it was Castagna's idea to take it there only read that he decided that they wouldn't do it again.

Why does every post end up in name calling. Just because people have different opinions doesn't make them stupid. Anyway back to the topic, over the years the FIM have proved they haven't got a clue about speedway and don't really understand the uniqueness of it. They bought in these silencers despite a massive protest from the Poles and will continue with them despite complaints from many many riders. They won't listen to anybody else because they are the "Mighty FIM and we do not make mistakes" Why won't they allow any type of silencer as long as it's within the noise levels? Is there someone in the FIM who is a director of the company that makes these? Just asking. Every decision they make makes the sport more expensive or more difficult to run at club level which is where the sport is watched mainly. The "Mighty FIM" decided that the under 21 world champs should go to Argentina despite many of the youngsters not being able to afford it. Thank goodness Castagna stopped that idea. They've decided all tracks should have air fences despite the cost and the facts that many tracks have perfectly good safety fences. Doesn't matter to them if some of the smaller tracks close because they can't afford them. They must be obeyed and will not enter into negotiations or listen to other peoples opinions. If all the ruling organisations stuck together I'm sure some of their sillier ideas would not get off the ground. If any body disagrees with this I will not call you an idiot or a moron because it's just my opinion. The FIM is supposed to be independent body but it's them that made the decision.

SS also said that Ashley Birks will be carrying out his own fan survey to find out what they want. Nice to see a rider taking on the challenge, the more I see of this lad the more I'm impressed. On telly last night Pete Adams also said that the guest rider situation needs to be addressed so maybe some are listening after all. I think the prospect of losing the Sky money may make some promoters wake up. Hopefully anyway.

I do think the Premier League is much more like the "Old Days" as most of the riders don't have to rush off abroad somewhere and can spend time to chat to the fans. Interesting comment about the walk from the pits to the dressing room, for many years at Rye House the riders had to walk the length of the home straight to get from Pits to dressing room it was a great chance to encourage the riders or hurl friendly abuse at the away team all great fun.

From what can be seen above some people do just go off the sport for a variety of reasons and that will always be the case. People stopped going in their masses in the fifties I bet there wasn't a specific reason there, just that people found something else to do so you won't stop people from stopping, if that make sense, but the problem is finding new customers. If I knew how to do that I wouldn't have to pay to see a meeting again as the promoters would be letting me in for free. As someone mentioned when the youngsters get to a certain age they don't want to be seen to be enjoying what their parents enjoy, it's just not cool. So do you keep things as they are and keep the oldies happy or do you jazz things up and hope the the younger generation will flood in but risk alienating the long standing loyal oldies. Not an easy decision to make. What would you do if you were a promoter?

Thank you for answering my question Moxey63. I to long for the days when a rider rode for your club only and not two or three other clubs dotted around Europe but riders nowadays are professionals not part time pros as they were back in the 60/70s and as such they need to earn a living. They do this by riding as often as possible you can't blame them for that. Unfortunately we can't turn the clock back or we'd have one off World Finals at Wembley every year.Ohh Yes! And the riders mate doing the oil and dope for him instead of a team of mechanics, psychologist, Physios etc, that would keep the cost down. Then the Elite league teams could afford the best riders but sadly those times are gone. Having got all nostalgic and looking back through rose tinted glasses I still enjoy the racing so I'll keep going for as long as I can. I do think however that the Elite League needs a shake up somehow as the gulf between the top riders Holder, Ward, Woffy, Lindgren etc and the bottom riders, sometime a National Leaguer is too great. As seen on TV the Premier League doesn't have such a huge gulf and the reult is better racing(generally).

Moxey63 you make some good points in your post particularly about the fans who no longer attend are not going so they can't tell us why they're not going. But yourself and Oldace who both no longer go haven't said exactly why you stopped going, all we've got is a vague "I was fed up with what was on offer", What was it you were fed up with, the racing, the lack of world class riders, the food, the music, tactical rides? It would help if you were more specific. I'm not connected to the sport in any way so can't do anything about it but there just may be some promoters reading this who might think "ahh so that's what they didn't like" and it might just give them food for thought. We read so many different opinions on here that it's difficult to know why the decline started. Some people say the racing isn't good enough some moan about the delays others complain about the cost some don't like the music played but most of these are just personal things. When I go Speedway it's for the racing I don't really care what the food is like or the type of music that's played. I'm sure most fans are like that so what was it that made you stop going?

Don't particularly like any type of tactical substitute whatever you call it, tac sub, tactical ride, joker etc. If a team works hard to get itself a lead why should the oposition be given a chance to pull it back by using a better rider, double points etc. All these tactical rides favour the top heavy teams. If a team like Birmingham, strength in depth but no star rider, manage to build a lead over a team like Wolves or Poole ( Prior to Holder's injury) then all credit to them. In my opinion it's wrong for said opposition to get an extra three points in one race just because they're behind. Promoters have a choice at the beggining of the season to build a top heavy side or a side with strength in depth. It isn't right to say "our top two are better than yours so we can have extra points". Having said that I doesn't put me off from going, coz I like watching the racing. Just to be pedantic all teams have three heat leaders they just may not be the same quality.

So the general idea is get the current fans more engaged with your club but obviously not spend too much extra dosh. This would the hopefully lead to them telling their friends what a great nightout Speedway is. Interval attractions don't really work long time so there has to be something else that relates to the sport and the club. At Cardiff there is a fan zone where the riders sign autographs and have their photos taken with fans etc, so why can't each track have a fan zone. There could be a bike on show so you can see one close up and not just whizzing round the track. A couple of riders one home and possibly the away number one, fans could ask them question have their photo taken maybe even on the bike. This wouldn't cost any extra and would only need the co-operation of the riders. When the riders need to get ready to race and warm up the bike etc, perhaps half an hour before the start why not have junior racing before the main event, I'm not talking 16/17old National Leaguers but 10/12 year olds. The kids would then think it's possible to be speedway rider they would have spoken to and had their photos taken with their heroes and had a sit on a speedway bike. Also if each track had one of those starting gate things that have done the rounds occasionally and could compete against their heroes that would be brilliant for them, iwould have loved that when I was 10 year old and first started going to speedway. Not a lot of cost just some co-operation from the riders. Any thoughts?

Still think he got you mixed up with the other Chris who constantly critcises but admits he never goes to Rye.

If Shadders doesn't make it will Rockets use fan replacement or will it be a guest fan as he is Rye's number 1 fan?

Can live with the mispronounceations. But the the mistakes he makes are laughable. Twice last night he said Darcy Ward in yellow charging round the outside to take the lead when Darcy was in Red charging up the inside and rider in yellow was at the back. If its the same bloke who was with Scotty Nicholls at Cardiff he did say it was his first live speedway event but really...... Give me Keith Huewen and Uncle Sam any day.Sam may have some annoying Americanisms but he knew what he was talking about.

Mmm? Have to disagree there. The Rockets were written off before the season started, then they ran Ipswich very close at Foxhall beat Plymouth very easily down there and knocked both sets of Tigers out of the cup. many forumers, if that's a word, were saying how surprised they were at how well the Rockets were going. Unfortunately after that the injuries piled up. Bunyan and Lambert both probably came back a week or two too early. I can't see how Uncle Len could be blamed for that. Considering how well they started the season does any body think that the results of the last few matches would have been the same? You can't legislate for your top two riders being injured, how would Somerset be without Doyle and Morris or Newcastle without Robson and Jerome, sorry Worrral.? (Musical flashback there but I'm OK now).

At the meetings you attended last year did you pay to get in or ask the crowd to have a whip round for your entrance fee? I'm sure they would have been happy to if you explained that the Sky subscribers pay for you watch speedway on TV.

That's a good idea, perhaps he could call himself A N Other, I seem to remember Mr Other getting a lot of guest apperances in the past and nobody ever knew who he was.

Don't think they're doing it to push the value down but may be considering sharing the pot more with the PL clubs. The most exciting meetings shown this year have all been PL so it would make sense to show more of them if they intend to renew the contract. I wonder what some of the EL snobs have to say about the EL being a superior product? I am not suggesting thet all EL supporters are snobs but there are a few who have voiced that opinion on here.

The British authorities not letting a foreigner in???? Don't make me laugh we let anybody in. Mind you Masters does have a job lined up and somewhere to live and speaks the language. Blimey no wonder they don't want him here!

As regards last year it wasn't just him that couldn't get a Visa, wasn't Travis McGowan refused permission as well and this year we have Sam Masters and Mason Campton also not being given permission to race here so perhaps it's the Aussie authorities that are at fault?

Agree wholeheartedly with that, the FIM don't give a dam about league Speedway at all but the European countries can cope because of their fixed race nights and close proximity to each other. I believe the FIM would like Speedway to be all individual racing like all the othe bike sports are.The Grands Prix are expanding year by year and we now have the European championship and if it wasn't for Amando Castagna the under 21 title would also be expanding. All this means less and less time for the Leagues especially in Britain. I do sometimes feel Speedway would be better off with out the interference of the FIM. Oh dear I've got myself so worked up I need to lie down in a darkened room for a while.