Cockney Rebel

Sorry if this is a similar topic to others but they all mention the Elite Leaguebut this covers both so I stuck it here We all agree that Speedway needs a drastic overhaul but we can’t all agree on exactly what should be done, some say get rid of the star riders they’re bleeding the sport dry, others say we should try to get more star riders in to pull the crowds in, obviously you can’t go with both of those. If you strip the star riders from the Elite League it would be nothing more than a strong Premier League so what would be the point in having two similar strength leagues? We cannot afford more star names unless you’re prepared to pay another tenner or so at the gate, so that’s not really practical either. Just tinkering with the points limit, which we all fear will happen, will only make things worse or at best stay the same. What we really need is a complete rethink about the League structure. Both leagues. Stay awake at the back please Uncle Stephen will be getting to the point shortly but will at first outline the idea he has wrestled with all night. In motor racing. Not F1, you sometimes get a race where the competitors although all on track at the same time are not competing against all of the other cars, they’re divided into classes, so although you may finish third or fourth overall if you finish in front of the other cars in your class you are the winner of that group. So why can’t that practice apply to a league? So here we go. Amalgamation! But not straight forward balancing up the teams but allowing the Elite teams to have their top men when they face each other. All 23 teams to form a British League, points limit to be set at Premier League level 41/42 whatever they decide. This would be no problem for the Premier league clubs but the Elite teams would have to declare a team within that limit using the current conversion formula. As at present there are some riders who are deemed to be too good for the Premier league these obviously include the superstar of the sport. These riders would be replaced in their team by juniors or lesser riders making sure the average does not exceed the points limit. However when two Elite league teams meet both sides would be able to bring in their big guns. For example Poole race Newcastle without Holder and Ward but race Wolves with them, similarly Wolves would race Scunthorpe without Woffy and Lindgren but would face Poole with them. All teams to race each other home and away that’s 22 home meetings, but with the Elite teams only facing each other 9 home and 9 away that would reduce the number of meetings the top riders would have. 18 as opposed to 28 last year, this would reduce the cost of having the top men and with the number of commitments dropping a few of the stay aways like Hancock and Pedersen might be tempted back. The lesser lights in the Elite teams would get more matches cos they would ride against all of the Premier sides that would make them happy, fans would get more meetings which would make them happy and the promoters would have a reduced wage bill which would make them happy. The highest place Elite teams would be the Elite Champions and the highest place Premier team the Premier champs. Perhaps even the team that finished overall top could be the British League champs as well. So that’s it basically or Bonet de Dusche as Del Boy would put it. To prevent our old favourite, average manipulation, from rearing it’s ugly head all those riders being declared to good for the Premier League at the start of the season would stay “too good” all the way through the year even if they did have a sudden and inexplicable drop in form when an Elite team was coming up to a run of Premier League clubs. This format would also bring back all of those local Derbies that bring the crowds in Lakeside/Ipswich, Ipswich/King’s Lynn. Leicester would be able to join in the fun in the Midlands without the expense of moving up a league and imagine a Somerset/Poole encounter. It would be interesting to see how the League finishes will the Elite teams dominate and fill the first ten places or will there be an even spread throughout the league. With only 22 guaranteed meetings you would still have room for play offs or a 4teams tourney if so desired I have gone over this a thousand times in my head and cannot see any drawbacks can you? Some promoters might think it a bit too radical, but I believe the sport needs radical action for it to survive and thrive. Thanks to all that have stayed awake and to the others have another try tomorrow.

Well said Pandorum, unfortunately there are some fans amongst us who won't watch Speedway unless they can see the superstars of the sport every week. Depending on how many of these fans there are can we afford to run the sport without them? This balancing act of star riders on a low budget is like trying to balance a jelly on a drumstick.

I would like to see any tactical ride/substitute abolished but I quite like this idea, would any team manager be brave enough to gamble, a 10-2 or a 2-10. that would get the nerves jangling.

Perhaps they could build a temporary track in Parliament Square leave in the traffic lights and Zebra crossings. That could be exciting especially as they would have to go against the flow of traffic as Speedway bike can't turn right.

I'll third that, I don't know who any of the texters or updaters are personally but do appreciate the service they provide. MANY MANY THANKS

Agree with a lot of what you have said, every year we hear clubs threatening to close if this or that doesn't happen. You never hear that from Len. This year some clubs are asking for donations towards their air fence or asking riders to ride free of charge to raise the money. Len says we had a good year last year so no need for the begging bowl. Why are so many Rye fans anti Len? He's guaranteed speedway for as long as he's alive that means operating within a budget perhaps if other promoters did the same their clubs wouldn't be under threat every year. As for paying peanuts, when Woffy signed for us when everybody expected him to sign for Sheffield Neil Machin said "Rye House beat him (Woffy) about the head with a cheque book" Don't thnk he said a bag of peanuts. Len has the respect of the riders read what Garrity says in this weeks Speedway Star and what Boxall has been saying all season.

The GP system is fairer than the old one off, although apart from Jerzy wotsname in 1973 I don't think there was any champion who wasn't worthy of the title. But the one offs were much more exciting for the fans, I went to all the World Finals at Wembley from1963 to 1981 and the racing wasn't always great but the atmosphere was absolutely electric because you knew that at the end of the meeting a new World Champion would be crowned. Today you have to try and guess what GP the champ will be crowned. This year all of those that attended Stockholm would have expected to see Woffy crowned only to be dissappointed and for those at Torun it was all over by heat 5. Have only been to one Cardiff GP and while the atmosphere was good the knowledge that there was another 4 rounds, or whatever it was then, to go, diluted some of the excitement. Also at the beginning of every season every rider could dream of becoming World Champion that year, whereas nowadays if you're good enough this year you might get the chance to take part in next years qualifiers for the following years GPs. It's interesting to see that while the World Championship now take all year to win, the Leagues are decided in a couple of matches.

I'm not going to join in the chorus condemning your "people of low intelligence" remark as I fully understand the point you were trying to put across, however looking at your above quote the "public at large" are not exactly flooding into the Speedway stadia up and down the country so maybe a change of image will bring some much needed new blood into the sport. As regards to other posters referring to "old Farts". Perlease! As part of that group I would prefer a little more respect, perhaps "the older generation with gastro/digestive problems" would be better.

Everywhere you look today you see young people sporting tatoos and piercings, as an over 60 they're not my thing but Speedway isn't short of supporters in my age bracket it's the younger ones we want to attract and the younger generation like them. My Great nepwhew is the same age as Tai and is at Nottingham University studying art, in his spare time he works in a tatoo parlour and has a couple of small ones himself. (Think he's frightened of his Mum to have any more) If by looking a bit different it gets some people curious about him and the sport then that's all good. His manner and politeness and dedication to his sport should stop anybody thinking he's just a yob with a Tat. With all due respect to all of the clean cut World Champions of the past none of them ever managed to set the Media world alight so give him a chance. As for comparison to F1, most of the drivers are corporate puppets when it comes to the media and have to toe the line to keep the sponsors and their team happy, which is one of the reasons Lewis Hamilton quit Maclaren. Working class lads would not aspire to be F1 champion as they don't have the money or backing but they can see someone like Tai and dream " that could be me". More power to his (tatooed) elbow. I say

If Holder and Gollob are automatic choices, as most of us seem to agree what would happen if either of them wasn't fit for the NZ, GP would they be ruled out for the whole season? Particularly if it was unsure how long they would be out for. It would be a bit harsh on their replacement if they rode half a season, maybe got themselves in a good position then be told sorry you've got to move over and make way for Holder/Gollob even though there's no chance of them winning the title now. Is there a rule that covers this situation? As for the other two picks, Grigory Laguta if he can get his visa problems sorted and either Lindgren or Jonsson. Must have a Swede the same way we had to have a Brit. Leon Madsen also worth a look but with three Danes already in not a real chance.

Phew! Thank goodness that's all over, I can breathe again now. Thought it was going to all go horribly wrong at the last hurdle. Should have faith in the man. Well done Tai. What next for him? Peace in the Middle East, save the economy? Anything is possible with the right attitude and determination. For all you Rockets fans how about renaming the club Tai House?

I sincerely hope you're right with this Steve, but as Tai has been telling everybody for the last two weeks and as we all saw on Saturday night, anything can happen in Speedway.

Don't agree with wild cards in principle, however as we have a Grand Prix system whereby you you qualify for the next years World Championship, not this years, like the old one off championship, it's fairer for the riders that get injured and are not able to compete in qualifiers for next year. For example under the old system Holder and Ward could still qualify for next years Championship even though they both got hurt this year. Under the current system without the wild card they wouldn't be able to take part next year, tough on them but also tough for the fans who want to see them, so I reluctantly think they are needed. I do think however that they should only be for riders that have been injured during the campaign that were in a top eight position and not just given to riders to make the numbers up. If no rider is injured then the top seven from the GP challenge should go through. On a seperate issue I think the whole qualifying system need to be looked at. But that's for another topic.

Totally agree with this. Walk down any street and you will see young people of both sexes sporting tatoos and piercings, not to my taste personally but I do admire the art work in some of the tatoos. The thing is many youngsters will identify with him, for many of them the "family sport image of speedway" may be off putting, did you have the same interest as your parents when you were a teenager? Despite us old fogies recoiling in horror at tatoo, giant earings or a bogie catcher (nose ring) many youngsters think it's cool, so what better for Speedway's image than to have a cool, British World Champion. When Havvy won in 92 he had braids and Ivan Mauger said it was the best thing that could have happened because it made him stand out. As regards his "Nationality", Jason Crump having been born in Bristol was more British than Tai is Aussie yet I don't recall any outcry form our upside down friends doubting his Nationality, perhaps it's just us Brits who like to do our Country down. As a long time Hackney supporter (1963-1996) and a long time Rockets fan (1974-2013) albeit the last 4 years from a distance, I was delight when Loram won it and will be equally delighted if Woffy can hang on. Was still pleased when PC, Lee and Havvy won it though but not quite as much.

Quite right and I'm going to sit in the corner with my eyes closed and my hands over my ears singing a tuneless song and stamping my feet. Or I might thkweam and thkweam til I'm thick.

Just looked at the GP website, according to his manager they're not going to say what his injuries are until he's back on track, that could months, weeks or tomorrow. Hmm? only a 5% chance of riding again this year but could be back tomorrow? Methinks a bit of kidology going on there. Wouldn't surprise me if he rode on Saturday. Wouldn't be the first rider trying the old "I'm badly hurt but I'll struggle on" ploy to give his opponents a false sense of hope. Hope he is fit enough to ride though cos it'll be storming finish to GP season.

Yes. I too remember Tiny White and I think you're under estimating his size and weight, I would put another couple of inches and another couple of stone on that, I think he could have eaten Ronnie Russell for a snack. Don't remember him ever beating anybody though, last every time by at least a quarter of a lap. Give him credit for trying though, must have really loved the sport.

Having read most of the posts on this topic I am now totally confused. People are saying the sport has to change (that of course means some of the rules) to survive, yet others complain that the sport has changed too much over the years. Remember all the changes that have been brought in and then thrown out, different league formats, different race format for the KO cup were brought in with good intentions, do you really think that the BSPA thought "Hey tha's a crap idea that's bound to annoy the fans lets put that in we can always change it again when it doesn't work". As BWitcher points out the only rule change in the past fifty years to affect what happens on the track has been the tape touching rule. When I started watching speedway in 1963 four riders went to the tapes,the two home riders wore red and blue helmet covers and the away teams riders wore white and yellow/black, the tapes went up and all four went hell for leather for FOUR laps, the winner got three points for his team, second got two points and third got one. When I go to speedway now four riders come to the tapes, the home team riders wear red and blue helmets and the away team wear white and yellow, the tapes go up and all four riders go hell for leather for FOUR laps the winner gets three points for his team and so on. Nothing has changed when you watch a race. Whether the rider is wearing a red helmet, a blue helmet, a black and white helmet or one one with floppy ears like Shawn McConnell wears, the action and excitement is the same. How the teams were put together was irrelevent then and as far as track action goes is irrelevent today. Many of the rules concerning the make up of each team have been brought about by the increasing globalisation of the sport. In the good old days even the top riders Briggs, Fundin, Mauger etc weren't riding for several clubs so the use of guests was restricted to injured riders, there was no GPs so the top men didn't go missing every other week. We have different leagues with different standards in the three main countries so there has to be a way of assessing how good or bad a rider is so riders a are given an assessed average but of course if a promoter thinks his new wunderkid has been given too high an average he will complain and try to juggle the rules to his advantage. If promoters accepted the spirit of the rules as well as the letter there wouldn't need to be so many rule changes. If a rule is stuck to to the letter and it goes against you, up goes the cry "where's the commom sense, it's doing a rider out of a job" or whatever yet if they say "in the best interest of the sport" ie: commom sense people complain that the rules are not being adhered to. Some people insist on comparing Speedway to football "Ooh you wouldn't have Wayne Rooney playing for one team one night and another team the next" that to me is like comparing bathroom tiles to a lawn mower. Footballers are JUDGED on their skills and therefore value to a team, a speedway rider's value to a team is MEASURED by the amount of points he scores. You can't judge Rooney against Rio Ferdinand cos their job on the pitch is different but you can compare Chris Holder against Mickey Dyer say cos their job is the same ie: win the race. With this in mind it's easier to level teams at the beggining of a season by using the rider's averages as opposed to judgement, so we come to a points limit and as long as we've got it, and we need it, you will get arguments and promoters trying to bend the rules so new rules are bought in to stop that happening and another promoter finds another loophole etc etc. Blimey I have gone on a bit haven't I? I could go on for longer but I can hear you all yawning and screaming obscenities the screen so I'll shut up now. But remember SPEEDWAY is the greatest sport on Earth and it doesn't really matter how the team building is done cos it's still riders going hell for leather for four laps

Bit of a bizarre question but I'll have a go; Angola Belgium Colombia Ethiopia France Galapagos Haiti Ireland Java Kenya Libya Mauritius Nepal Outer Mongolia Paraguay Qatar Romania Swaziland Tibet Uruguay Venezuela Windward Isles X...got me there. Yugoslavia? Zimbabwe. Couldn't think of a D other than Denmark. Or did you mean where individual meetings already take place?

Excellent post I was just about to make such a post myself then read yours. Riders didn't need to take so much from the sport then cos most of them had other jobs.Nowadays as you've just pointed out most of them consider themselves professional before they've even got a team place. Whilst I don't begrudge riders earning a good wage if the cost to the paying customer keeps rising they'll just stay away and the riders will be out of a job altogether. Might have been a record crowd but did the promotion make any money? Just asking.

Agree with everything you said about the damage that the GP system has done to British Speedway White Knight, unfortunately it's not going to change so we have to put up with it. However I don't think that has anything to do with young Brits not developing into World Class riders. During the nineties I had a bit of a hiatus from the sport mainly due to my two regular tracks Hackney and Rye House closing, when Rye House started up again and my enthusiasm was rekindled there were a lot of riders I had never heard of, two names kept cropping up when talking future world champions David Howe and Simon Stead although both of them are decent riders I think that both would admit they're not World beaters. So why have they not gone on to conquer the world. At Rye House we've had Eddie Kennett, Danny King, Steve Boxall and of course Tai Woffinden. Only one of those has gone on to fulfill his early promise, Kennett and King both show flashes of world class form but can't maintain it and Boxall has faffed about about in and out of the sport. These three have undoubted talent so why are they not up there with Tai? Whats the difference? Maybe it's attitude? Tai was bought up in Australia the other three in England maybe it's a cultural/attitude thing. I was reading last weeks speedway star in particular the interviews with Mikkel Bech and Lewis Blackbird. Lewis said when he was about 17/18 he was more interest in going out with his mates and having a good time rather than concentrate on speedway. Perfectly understandable and I mean no criticism of Lewis but reading the Bech interview he shows a completely different mind set choosing to come to a foreign land at such a young age to learn different tracks and thereby improve his skill on a speedway bike. By the time he reaches Lewis' age he will be a far better rider. Is this dedication to learning your craft an alien concept to todays youngsters not just speedway riders but to all of todays youth. Not I typed this before seeing BWitchers post

Wasn't aware that it was Castagna's idea to take it there only read that he decided that they wouldn't do it again.

Why does every post end up in name calling. Just because people have different opinions doesn't make them stupid. Anyway back to the topic, over the years the FIM have proved they haven't got a clue about speedway and don't really understand the uniqueness of it. They bought in these silencers despite a massive protest from the Poles and will continue with them despite complaints from many many riders. They won't listen to anybody else because they are the "Mighty FIM and we do not make mistakes" Why won't they allow any type of silencer as long as it's within the noise levels? Is there someone in the FIM who is a director of the company that makes these? Just asking. Every decision they make makes the sport more expensive or more difficult to run at club level which is where the sport is watched mainly. The "Mighty FIM" decided that the under 21 world champs should go to Argentina despite many of the youngsters not being able to afford it. Thank goodness Castagna stopped that idea. They've decided all tracks should have air fences despite the cost and the facts that many tracks have perfectly good safety fences. Doesn't matter to them if some of the smaller tracks close because they can't afford them. They must be obeyed and will not enter into negotiations or listen to other peoples opinions. If all the ruling organisations stuck together I'm sure some of their sillier ideas would not get off the ground. If any body disagrees with this I will not call you an idiot or a moron because it's just my opinion. The FIM is supposed to be independent body but it's them that made the decision.

SS also said that Ashley Birks will be carrying out his own fan survey to find out what they want. Nice to see a rider taking on the challenge, the more I see of this lad the more I'm impressed. On telly last night Pete Adams also said that the guest rider situation needs to be addressed so maybe some are listening after all. I think the prospect of losing the Sky money may make some promoters wake up. Hopefully anyway.

I do think the Premier League is much more like the "Old Days" as most of the riders don't have to rush off abroad somewhere and can spend time to chat to the fans. Interesting comment about the walk from the pits to the dressing room, for many years at Rye House the riders had to walk the length of the home straight to get from Pits to dressing room it was a great chance to encourage the riders or hurl friendly abuse at the away team all great fun.