Cockney Rebel

I do realise that some double uppers may have less meeting than at present but what about the middle order Elite riders who are not doubling up and not riding abroad? They would get more meetings under this system. Also with riders only representing one team there would be no accusation of such and such rider putting more effort into his EL club than he does for us. Also regarding the "non believers" that is non Speedway goers, you won't have to explain how a rider can ride for two teams. My fourteen year old nephew lives in Birmingham and has never been Speedway even though I've tried my best, he is aware of how well the Brummies did this year and that Jason Doyle rides for them but he was a bit confused when I told him that Jason also rides for Somerset in a different league. I then had to explain the whole two League system and that no there was no promotion and relegation and the double up riders etc. As for a shortage of riders, as the saying goes "Build it and they will come".Third heatleaders and second strings in the Elite matches would become top men and heat leaders in the Premier matches, reserves would become second strings and the better National League riders would move ino the reserve spots. Simples.

Perlease. If I was Fat Maud would I even suggest that Poole would ride against anyone without the Grusome Twosome, er Sorry Turbo Twins

And where's the 3rd bend on a track surely there's only two bends."Disqualified" always sounds like they've done something naughty whereas they might just have fallen of or touched the tapes and what happened to the yellow and black helmet colour. Tut before you know it they'll all be wearing brightly coloured racesuits instead of leathers and what's happend to the handlebars they're all turned down nowadays, you wouldn't catch Ove or Briggo riding with bars like that. Blimey did all that happen while I've been watching speedway, don't half make you feel old dunnit?

Sorry if this is a similar topic to others but they all mention the Elite Leaguebut this covers both so I stuck it here We all agree that Speedway needs a drastic overhaul but we can’t all agree on exactly what should be done, some say get rid of the star riders they’re bleeding the sport dry, others say we should try to get more star riders in to pull the crowds in, obviously you can’t go with both of those. If you strip the star riders from the Elite League it would be nothing more than a strong Premier League so what would be the point in having two similar strength leagues? We cannot afford more star names unless you’re prepared to pay another tenner or so at the gate, so that’s not really practical either. Just tinkering with the points limit, which we all fear will happen, will only make things worse or at best stay the same. What we really need is a complete rethink about the League structure. Both leagues. Stay awake at the back please Uncle Stephen will be getting to the point shortly but will at first outline the idea he has wrestled with all night. In motor racing. Not F1, you sometimes get a race where the competitors although all on track at the same time are not competing against all of the other cars, they’re divided into classes, so although you may finish third or fourth overall if you finish in front of the other cars in your class you are the winner of that group. So why can’t that practice apply to a league? So here we go. Amalgamation! But not straight forward balancing up the teams but allowing the Elite teams to have their top men when they face each other. All 23 teams to form a British League, points limit to be set at Premier League level 41/42 whatever they decide. This would be no problem for the Premier league clubs but the Elite teams would have to declare a team within that limit using the current conversion formula. As at present there are some riders who are deemed to be too good for the Premier league these obviously include the superstar of the sport. These riders would be replaced in their team by juniors or lesser riders making sure the average does not exceed the points limit. However when two Elite league teams meet both sides would be able to bring in their big guns. For example Poole race Newcastle without Holder and Ward but race Wolves with them, similarly Wolves would race Scunthorpe without Woffy and Lindgren but would face Poole with them. All teams to race each other home and away that’s 22 home meetings, but with the Elite teams only facing each other 9 home and 9 away that would reduce the number of meetings the top riders would have. 18 as opposed to 28 last year, this would reduce the cost of having the top men and with the number of commitments dropping a few of the stay aways like Hancock and Pedersen might be tempted back. The lesser lights in the Elite teams would get more matches cos they would ride against all of the Premier sides that would make them happy, fans would get more meetings which would make them happy and the promoters would have a reduced wage bill which would make them happy. The highest place Elite teams would be the Elite Champions and the highest place Premier team the Premier champs. Perhaps even the team that finished overall top could be the British League champs as well. So that’s it basically or Bonet de Dusche as Del Boy would put it. To prevent our old favourite, average manipulation, from rearing it’s ugly head all those riders being declared to good for the Premier League at the start of the season would stay “too good” all the way through the year even if they did have a sudden and inexplicable drop in form when an Elite team was coming up to a run of Premier League clubs. This format would also bring back all of those local Derbies that bring the crowds in Lakeside/Ipswich, Ipswich/King’s Lynn. Leicester would be able to join in the fun in the Midlands without the expense of moving up a league and imagine a Somerset/Poole encounter. It would be interesting to see how the League finishes will the Elite teams dominate and fill the first ten places or will there be an even spread throughout the league. With only 22 guaranteed meetings you would still have room for play offs or a 4teams tourney if so desired I have gone over this a thousand times in my head and cannot see any drawbacks can you? Some promoters might think it a bit too radical, but I believe the sport needs radical action for it to survive and thrive. Thanks to all that have stayed awake and to the others have another try tomorrow.

I know you didn't say that but, taking it to it's logical conclusion if the EL can't get out of the hole it's partly dug for itself what happens to it? Do the PL promoters just let it die or help it survive? Would the PL be absorbed into the El or the EL into the PL? The Elite League is not an entity that exists by itself it's an organisation of ten clubs, who happen to employ riders that demand more money. If those clubs that are struggling can't afford the cost of staying in it they won't just close down they'll naturally want to join an organisation where they can afford to run ie; the Premier League, so would the PL be able to handle one club dropping down or two or three or all ten. Perhaps we could have a Prelite League or an Elmier League. Seriously though there doesn't seem to be a simple solution so we'll just have to wait and see what they come up with next week. If SKY are waiting till they see what shape the the EL is going to take and the BSPA can't decide what to do until they know how much money, if any, they're going to get then there's going to be a bit of a stand off. It might be better for them to plan without the SKY or whoever's money and then if something comes along that'll be a bonus. If SKY do come up with some more dosh I fear nothing much will change. One thing all this does show is that although we all have different opinions about what should happen we all care about our great sport, if we didn't this discussion wouldn't be taking place.

Only just spotted this post, seems like a good idea. The only down side would be that some some supporters would think the teams who finished outside the top 5 would be competing for a best of the losers cup/trophy and not bother turning up, but personally I think it's a good idea.

I don't understand this attitude. If the EL fails, ie: clubs close down, the riders who don't race abroad will want to find employment in the Premier league, are you saying these riders should be ignored and left with no job? On the other hand if they are employed by some PL clubs this will lessen the opportunity for riders comimg through the system. If the whole EL collapsed how would ten clubs going out of business not affect the PL? Some fans won't go to PL matches cos they think it's a lower standard so they will be lost to the sport. One of the reasons for the relative success of the PL is the movement of riders from PL to EL. Riders come through the ranks develop into heat leaders and move on to the EL leaving room for others to come through. If there was nowhere for them to go the whole sport would stagnate. The PL needs the EL as much as the EL needs the PL it would be very difficult for one to manage without the other.

Well said Pandorum, unfortunately there are some fans amongst us who won't watch Speedway unless they can see the superstars of the sport every week. Depending on how many of these fans there are can we afford to run the sport without them? This balancing act of star riders on a low budget is like trying to balance a jelly on a drumstick.

I'm with you on that Blupanther, any speedway is better than none. Unfortunately not everybody thinks like that, some fans only want meaningful matches, I presume they mean league racing so with a 10 team Elite league you're only going to have 18 home meetings or 20 if you make the playoff final. A very short season.Then what? go home and wait for next year? Can promotions who have to rent the stadium earn enough in those weeks to cover the rent, assuming they rent for a year and not just on a weekly basis? Of course we can all spend our money on what we want, if fans only want to watch the "meaningful" League meetings that's their prerogative but if their club folds through lack of support of the "lesser" meetings don't be surprised.

That rather proves my point, even though Eastbourne don't have GP riders how many opposition teams turned up without the GP stars using guests, r/r etc, which may have affected the number of people attending or maybe Easbourne didn't ride on GP weekends which means fans get out of the habit of going regularly. Bob Dugard said a similar thing in the Speedway Star a couple of weeks ago regarding the GPs. I agree one hundred percent about what you're saying about not caring what the stadium is like if you can watch good racing and an exciting meeting. Unfortunately no sport can guarantee an exciting meeting/match be it speedway, football, Rugby or tiddlywinks. I do feel that nowadays some of our expectations are too high not only in Speedway but life in general, so many people live on credit that thy can't really afford and that attitude extends into other aspects of our lives. Want a nice new car? get it on credit. Want a nicer house? take out a bigger mortgage. Holiday in the West Indies? My flexible friend will pay for that. Want a League winning Speedway team and lots of exciting races? Erm.. not so simple. If only Carlsberg ran Speedway

I would like to see any tactical ride/substitute abolished but I quite like this idea, would any team manager be brave enough to gamble, a 10-2 or a 2-10. that would get the nerves jangling.

Perhaps they could build a temporary track in Parliament Square leave in the traffic lights and Zebra crossings. That could be exciting especially as they would have to go against the flow of traffic as Speedway bike can't turn right.

I believe there was one South Coast promoter who could afford a secret supply of his own Hob Nobs in case the others ganged up on him and voted for custard creams. Two others threatened not to take part because they were promised Ginger Nuts and wanted an independent body to make a decision on the choice of biscuits. On a more serious note the two biggest events to affect British Speedway in the past twenty years are the rise of the Polish League, once the shackles of communism were removed, and secondly the increase in the number of GPs. Financially we can't compete with Poland but we did have Friday and Saturday tracks where the riders could earn a few bob. Since we now have a GP every other week it's no longer practical to run in the Elite League on one of those nights so these tracks have moved to midweek where they obviously don't attract the same number of spectators. Of these two I would say the GPs have had the biggest affect as no Elite league track raced on a Sunday anyway so that didn't affect anyone riding in Poland. The suggestion that this is just an Elite League problem and nothing to do with the Premier League is a bit short sighted. If the Elite League was to fold what would happen to the clubs, no real Speedway fan would want a club to close down so they would apply to join the Premier League which would then by default become the top league. As riders developed they would qualify for the GPs and want every other Fri/Sat off so we'd be back to square one. I really have no idea how this conundrum can be solved, lots of fans have put forward suggestions on this forum all of them worthy of consideration, but equally some other fans would be thinking "If that happens I'm not going anymore" The wrong thing is for the BSPA to do nothing and let things get worse but doing the right thing might just prove to be very tricky.

There is no simple answer that will satisfy everybody. Most of us would like to see the worlds top riders in the Elite League but that won't happen for various reasons, for some riders it's the money for some it's too many meeting. Hancock said last week if the fixture list was halved he would consider coming back but a shorter fixture list wouldn't suit the riders who don't race abroad or indeed most fans, so realisticly we must say bye bye to Greg and other top liners who share that view. With others it maybe cash, if there is no Sky deal or other big sponsorship the top riders may be faced with a take it or leave it situation. Fans complain about the price of admission now so can you imagine the reaction if the BSPA said if you want to see the top riders then you will have to pay another tenner to get in. Then on the other hand some fans may say "I'm not going any more cos there's no good riders over here" Some Elite fans look down on the Premier Leagus cos it lacks the star names so they're likely to be the first one to stop going. If YOU were in charge what would you do to keep the top men without a major sponsorship and without putting up the entrance fee? Bit of a problem isn't it? So whatever the BSPA decide let's do OUR part and keep going, cos if we stop going there will be no Speedway.

I'll third that, I don't know who any of the texters or updaters are personally but do appreciate the service they provide. MANY MANY THANKS

Agree with a lot of what you have said, every year we hear clubs threatening to close if this or that doesn't happen. You never hear that from Len. This year some clubs are asking for donations towards their air fence or asking riders to ride free of charge to raise the money. Len says we had a good year last year so no need for the begging bowl. Why are so many Rye fans anti Len? He's guaranteed speedway for as long as he's alive that means operating within a budget perhaps if other promoters did the same their clubs wouldn't be under threat every year. As for paying peanuts, when Woffy signed for us when everybody expected him to sign for Sheffield Neil Machin said "Rye House beat him (Woffy) about the head with a cheque book" Don't thnk he said a bag of peanuts. Len has the respect of the riders read what Garrity says in this weeks Speedway Star and what Boxall has been saying all season.

The GP system is fairer than the old one off, although apart from Jerzy wotsname in 1973 I don't think there was any champion who wasn't worthy of the title. But the one offs were much more exciting for the fans, I went to all the World Finals at Wembley from1963 to 1981 and the racing wasn't always great but the atmosphere was absolutely electric because you knew that at the end of the meeting a new World Champion would be crowned. Today you have to try and guess what GP the champ will be crowned. This year all of those that attended Stockholm would have expected to see Woffy crowned only to be dissappointed and for those at Torun it was all over by heat 5. Have only been to one Cardiff GP and while the atmosphere was good the knowledge that there was another 4 rounds, or whatever it was then, to go, diluted some of the excitement. Also at the beginning of every season every rider could dream of becoming World Champion that year, whereas nowadays if you're good enough this year you might get the chance to take part in next years qualifiers for the following years GPs. It's interesting to see that while the World Championship now take all year to win, the Leagues are decided in a couple of matches.

I'm not going to join in the chorus condemning your "people of low intelligence" remark as I fully understand the point you were trying to put across, however looking at your above quote the "public at large" are not exactly flooding into the Speedway stadia up and down the country so maybe a change of image will bring some much needed new blood into the sport. As regards to other posters referring to "old Farts". Perlease! As part of that group I would prefer a little more respect, perhaps "the older generation with gastro/digestive problems" would be better.

Everywhere you look today you see young people sporting tatoos and piercings, as an over 60 they're not my thing but Speedway isn't short of supporters in my age bracket it's the younger ones we want to attract and the younger generation like them. My Great nepwhew is the same age as Tai and is at Nottingham University studying art, in his spare time he works in a tatoo parlour and has a couple of small ones himself. (Think he's frightened of his Mum to have any more) If by looking a bit different it gets some people curious about him and the sport then that's all good. His manner and politeness and dedication to his sport should stop anybody thinking he's just a yob with a Tat. With all due respect to all of the clean cut World Champions of the past none of them ever managed to set the Media world alight so give him a chance. As for comparison to F1, most of the drivers are corporate puppets when it comes to the media and have to toe the line to keep the sponsors and their team happy, which is one of the reasons Lewis Hamilton quit Maclaren. Working class lads would not aspire to be F1 champion as they don't have the money or backing but they can see someone like Tai and dream " that could be me". More power to his (tatooed) elbow. I say

If Holder and Gollob are automatic choices, as most of us seem to agree what would happen if either of them wasn't fit for the NZ, GP would they be ruled out for the whole season? Particularly if it was unsure how long they would be out for. It would be a bit harsh on their replacement if they rode half a season, maybe got themselves in a good position then be told sorry you've got to move over and make way for Holder/Gollob even though there's no chance of them winning the title now. Is there a rule that covers this situation? As for the other two picks, Grigory Laguta if he can get his visa problems sorted and either Lindgren or Jonsson. Must have a Swede the same way we had to have a Brit. Leon Madsen also worth a look but with three Danes already in not a real chance.

Phew! Thank goodness that's all over, I can breathe again now. Thought it was going to all go horribly wrong at the last hurdle. Should have faith in the man. Well done Tai. What next for him? Peace in the Middle East, save the economy? Anything is possible with the right attitude and determination. For all you Rockets fans how about renaming the club Tai House?

I sincerely hope you're right with this Steve, but as Tai has been telling everybody for the last two weeks and as we all saw on Saturday night, anything can happen in Speedway.

Don't agree with wild cards in principle, however as we have a Grand Prix system whereby you you qualify for the next years World Championship, not this years, like the old one off championship, it's fairer for the riders that get injured and are not able to compete in qualifiers for next year. For example under the old system Holder and Ward could still qualify for next years Championship even though they both got hurt this year. Under the current system without the wild card they wouldn't be able to take part next year, tough on them but also tough for the fans who want to see them, so I reluctantly think they are needed. I do think however that they should only be for riders that have been injured during the campaign that were in a top eight position and not just given to riders to make the numbers up. If no rider is injured then the top seven from the GP challenge should go through. On a seperate issue I think the whole qualifying system need to be looked at. But that's for another topic.

Totally agree with this. Walk down any street and you will see young people of both sexes sporting tatoos and piercings, not to my taste personally but I do admire the art work in some of the tatoos. The thing is many youngsters will identify with him, for many of them the "family sport image of speedway" may be off putting, did you have the same interest as your parents when you were a teenager? Despite us old fogies recoiling in horror at tatoo, giant earings or a bogie catcher (nose ring) many youngsters think it's cool, so what better for Speedway's image than to have a cool, British World Champion. When Havvy won in 92 he had braids and Ivan Mauger said it was the best thing that could have happened because it made him stand out. As regards his "Nationality", Jason Crump having been born in Bristol was more British than Tai is Aussie yet I don't recall any outcry form our upside down friends doubting his Nationality, perhaps it's just us Brits who like to do our Country down. As a long time Hackney supporter (1963-1996) and a long time Rockets fan (1974-2013) albeit the last 4 years from a distance, I was delight when Loram won it and will be equally delighted if Woffy can hang on. Was still pleased when PC, Lee and Havvy won it though but not quite as much.

Quite right and I'm going to sit in the corner with my eyes closed and my hands over my ears singing a tuneless song and stamping my feet. Or I might thkweam and thkweam til I'm thick.