scotchopper

That is my understanding and the way it should be. Forgetting about be the specific rider in question I think it is correct that an assessed rider should be guaranteed a decent chance to prove himself and not discarded after 3 or 4 meetings. In theory it also means they have genuine MA even if this new minimum rule might prevent them using it. I am open to it being longer than8 matches however it can't/shouldn't be the whole season. As usual an ill thought out rushed through rule that is not clear. What happens next season can they use their genuine MA or minimum 5 forever. If it was for the whole season does that mean you can replace a rider with a 5.01 average but not 4.99. absolutely crazy. For those suggesting that Edinburgh are putting things in the paper to pressure him to quit you really need to have a word with yourself. Talk about 1+1=200 the article does not reflect well on anyone but to read that from it is utterly bewildering. Jye gets his official MA tomorrow so guess we'll find out soon if the monarchs want to replace and if they are allowed to.

The same paper and reporter wrote this on Friday http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/speedway/monarchs-are-backing-jye-not-sacking-him-1-4138991 There was nothing happened on Friday that surprising and that would have suddenly changed the Edinburgh's promotions mind. Edinburgh don't deal with speculation even after provocation and their website is where you find out the real information so anything hear can be treated with a pinch of salt. It is just headline making but you guys can go on about despicable Monarchs etc etc. Quite frankly it is pathetic how much people on here want to see Edinburgh suffer, anything that could be construed as negative is jumped on and extrapolated to a far worse degree. I know we have been at the top of the tree and have a target on our back but a little bit of perspective is required. No real skin of our nose as Edinburgh continue to go about their business as usual. They won't ask the paper to retract as their is no point falling out with the local newspaper and as they say no publicity is bad publicity. The truth is Edinburgh saw a young lad with potential and gave him a chance, for one reason or another it isn't working out for him. In days gone by he would now go to reserve and get a boost of confidence and some points by racing in easier races but the rule changes means that won't happen. He proved in the Colts challenge match that he is probably better than NL riders but he is not a 5 point PL rider and ultimately he probably will be replaced, Edinburgh have done the decent thing and made sure he got to the 8 meetings and will have a more accurate average, whether the visa rules allow him to use that is a different question. What is interesting is that despite carrying Jye and arguably the 2 reserves Edinburgh have still had a positive start (except the first match of the season at home to Berwick) to the season winning all home league matches, picked up a couple of away points and won through to the next round of the cup. If they are able to replace him and find a decent rider then we will become contenders again. Maybe that is what is worrying all the monarch lovers on here.

Not sure what was unprofessional or personal, he stated an opinion that in the first running Danny laid it down because he had been beaten to first corner and thought the witches had a better chance in a rerun than catching and passing the monarchs, even if it was just risager in the race. It is the sort of move that happens in speedway maybe not all the time but often enough and normally provokes the same reaction from the opposition manager. I wasn't there so can't comment on this specific instance but I have seen a few witches fans on social media say that he should have been excluded and was at it. Ref gave him the benefit of the doubt and he took full advantage in the rerun. In terms of decisions evening themselves out you are forgetting heat 10 when kerr fell and was excluded wolbert was away and king won the rerun, so you got 2 decisions in ht15 and 1 in heat 10 and we had 1 in ht2. Not even but sometimes it goes for you sometimes against but you don't have to like it. As for Fisher many of his detractors talk about one day he will give someone a bad one, well he has been racing for well over 10 years now........ he has had a few in the opposite direction, e.g. last week when Barker took him out but he was laughing about it in the pits with Ben after apparently. There is no doubt he is a hard rider and can be ruthless but he is also a super talented motorcyclist who goes for and pulls off moves other riders wouldn't even dream about. and news flash you don't get any points for beating the track. He is fantastic to watch and to follow, at Workington the other week when he was chasing down the opposition he gave his bike a massive slap going down the back straight just like a jockey would whip his horse trying to get more speed

6 points in one race alone. So close to winning tonight, but for for a poor ref decision sounds like we would have achieved the impossible. Top 3 going well again, max improving and Dan chipping in a couple of points was better than expected. Just need jye to work it out. Ipswich should have hit 60 tonight, well done monarchs

Excellent performance from the Monarchs convincing winners.

7 more Friday clashes, less than perfect and difficult for Dan to get any real home track advantage. Not looked at away fixtures It was a strange one with Peterborough and Cookie as whilst I get the argument for not racing on the same race night for 2 reams it wasn't applied last year when it was Edinburgh & Belle Vue. If you are going to make a rule it has to be applied consistently. Another reason why EL should be a single race day.

My problem was with the use of the word saga. Saga means something that gets dragged out over a long period of time like some thing happens every time they race against each other or that sam is somehow out for revenge. That is clearly not the case. In fact I was reminded tonight that Sam was badly injured last year racing for Leicester laying his bike down to avoid a stricken rider, the stricken rider was Adam Roynon who I believe was very grateful. Anyway well done Workington very worthy winners tonight, all 7 with at least 2 paid wins and competitive in all races. Only ran 3 lasts all night. Although Hansen clearly had 2 wheels over the line when he passed Sam in heat 5, guess it is virtually impossible to see from refs box and wouldn't have impacted the final result. a night to forget for the monarchs, Sam and Max in particular. A very rare off night as a result of mechanical gremlins for Sam all but ended any chance we had, brilliantly team rode Erik into the lead in ht11. Max must find a way to be competitive in away matches, his night summed up by being replaced by Dan in ht12. Dan again didn't look out of place and was solid earning him a couple of points. Jye picked up an excellent point in ht3 and looks like he xan compete in the first corner but spoiled it with a couple of falls Ryan tried hard but got caught in the wrong place on the 2nd bend in 3 of his races and couldn't get back into those races. Kevin had a couple of fantastic 2nd bends and was decent all night but will be disappointed by ht7 Then there was Erik, absolutely brilliant hanging off the bike and looking faster than all others. Too wide in ht15 but thoroughly deserved his 14 points. Favourite moment was when the fish slapped his bike like a horse when looking for more speed. It worked for a lap as he almost got alongside wells but couldn't sustain it. Needed to give it another whip the next lap.

I'm coming down don't worry about that so to sum up the rest of your post sam was upset at being passed by roynon 4 years ago and then nothing else. James Cameron must be so excited about directing that saga. You state Sam is involved in all the incidents before highlighting a clash between auty and tungate that Sam wasn't in the meeting for You also have a go at him for what happened at the aussie gp but then you actually hope for handbags in the meeting. Did I get that right? This forum never ceases to amaze me with the lunacy of some posts You don't like him fair enough and he does see the red mist very occasionally but he is a quality speedway rider and absolutely fantastic for the monarchs!

I am confused, a saga would suggest something that was ongoing yet you only refer to one thing that happened 4 years ago.

Hey, I was still celebrating the Monarchs and hibees win in a night club in Berwick until the wee small hours. You would have to drag me kicking and screaming out of the speedway before the end of heat 15 when the Monarchs are in town.

It's always Baltic at Berwick you would have to start every week at 7. To be fair I didn't think the delays were that bad as they tried hard to get the track a bit more raceable and by the end of the meeting it was. What on earth he thought he would achieve by chopping up the start line towards the end of the meeting I'll never know, that was unnecessary and was a silly delay. A brilliant 2nd bend from wolbert in ht12, a good pass from wethers in 14 and then a sensational pass by the fish in heat 15 meant we did get some good races. Can't believe some of the folk on here talking about leaving at ht10 or 13. Yes the writing was on the wall in terms of the result for the home team with Jorgensen (except ht10) and Alden looking awful and really looked like they didn't fancy it. Whilst there is a lot of chat about gating being key (which it was) the bottom line was the monarchs top 4 were all excellent and I don't think even doolan at his best on a dry berwick track would have passed them. I am sure they would have passed one of the monarchs weaker riders but they were never behind except when Jye got 2nd for a lap in ht14. By the same respect I would have liked to see if the likes of Jorgensen or Alden outgated Ryan or Sam, I think then we would have found out if passing was possible. All of the monarchs got stuck in and was brilliant to see Dan take a great 2nd place in ht2, again showing good potential. shame he came off in his next 2 but did a great job clearing the track especially with his team mate leading both times. Happy to see Jye pick up a point and looking like the start of a formidable partnership between Erik and Sam. But the star of the show was Ryan Fisher need to get that level of performance every week, I'm sure he'll be inconsistent in the short term but get him flying by the summer. Just a shame Kevin couldn't get amongst it in ht10 as that probably cost us the 4th match point, just need Berwick to stop Glasgow getting a bonus point next week and then a big win against the Tigers. Still unlikely that monarchs will qualify but by the time that match comes around the boys should have had a few meetings at the dale and more of a chance the bottom 3 can pick up points. Wonder if it'll be on 6th May, don't think there are too many meetings on that night.

I think the main thing to say here is well done Berwick. Not won at the dale for 18 years and were worthy winners. Things fell into place nicely for them tonight but that's life. No one is happy to lose but with the changes we had to make we were always going to have a difficult start to the season but have realistic expectations. We needed Kevin and Ryan to hit the ground running from the start to have a chance but both struggled. Dan and Jye would never have ridden on a track like that before so more good experience and loads of practice after the meeting. Good to see Erik and Ryan do a few laps after as well. Finally well done to the track staff and all the riders for putting on such a good meeting in such difficult weather conditions. I did not expect to see much racing tonight when I arrived but they got through it all in an hour and heat 2 will probably be race of the season absolutely brilliant.

I agree with you in the statement that Dan is not ready for the Premier League but that is thinking about last season's PL. The new rule whilst very well intentioned means there will be a number of riders put into Dan's position who are also not ready for PL. Dan will take points off them once he gets going but not a lot until he grows a bit, other than Ellis Perks or Tom Perry I think all of those riders are going to be unpredictable and I am quite happy with the approach Monarchs took to it. Only thing you would prefer is they ran a couple of vulture meetings over the winter but that is not possible, perhaps the new training track Berwick are setting up will help all the scottish teams do that and potentially get more local youngsters involved. If it doesn't work Glasgow seem to have unearthed a gem in Danny Ayres and that should be a massive bonus to them although he didn't get anywhere near Edinburgh's top 4 (Kevin and Ruan beat him comfortably) so difficult to judge if he can win the league for Glasgow or just be best of the reserves. I am willing to bet there will be a number of riders across the league struggling to score 1 point in 6 weeks time that is when you start to worry about Dan and others in their boat. Given his inexperience and his score at Cradley I will give him the benefit of the doubt and the support he needs. All the Glasgow concern for Monarchs actually misses the point that Edinburgh fans are being complimentary to their team. If we had lost at home to scunny then we probably would be criticizing the team and the way it was selected now but we didn't we lost away to one of the teams that are favourites for the league that with the form of Danny Ayres look better than predicted. It was also (Edinburgh's fault so an excuse for the riders but not the team) a very undercooked edinburgh team with very little track time so it is incredibly unfair to make judgements after this one meeting. Whilst it was a tough defeat and has opened a few questions I actually think there were 1 or 2 positive things on Sunday, My perspective 1. Sam Masters - will be up there with the top 5 in the league and potentially best rider in PL this season, no worries 2. Jye Etheridge - Looked (unsurprisingly) very nervous on sunday and that probably cost him picking up a couple of points but his move around the outside in heat 8 to lead for 2.5 laps shows his potential. One for the future 3. Kevin Wolbert - Steady eddie of the team, if he scores the same as last season then will be a success and sunday showed that he was capable by beating Lawson quite easily in ht10 4. Erik Riss - We need him to step up this year and he is capable. Whilst not troubling the Glasgow top 4 he passed Garcia as if he wasn't there in ht7. He wouldn't have done that at the start of last season. 5. Ryan Fisher - Struggled with equipment last year so his puncture in ht13 was concerning, he was beating Lawson at the time shame about the tape touch as that would have been a better test of how competitive he was on Sunday. Once he is settled and has a few meetings at home I do expect him to do the same as Kevin did last year, once he gets going you will see the real Edinburgh 6. Max Clegg - Away from home is still his big challenge and one he needs o conquer but I expect him to score heavily at home with the new rules 7. Max Bewley - As above lets give him a chance before totally deciding, perhaps if he gets in and gets some experience then comes back next year stronger then he could be another Kalle. Anyone who went along on Sunday expecting to see the defending Premier League Championship misses the point of the rules of speedway and was kidding themselves on. The rules are built to prevent teams winning every season so we have over achieved in the last 5 years but had to be weaker this year and the gap left by Cookie means it is a period of transition. Last time that happened is when the Fish left to go full time PL and Cookie didn't turn out to be a bad replacement so very early days. As I said before it looks difficult but no awards are handed out in April

Masters aside I don't think anyone thinks it was a good performance, even decent is stretching it but there were signs of potential which is what you are after in your first meeting. so no need to hit the panic button and there is a big difference between losing at home to scunny vs losing away to Glasgow. There are lots of twists and turns between now and when the trophies are handed out and they are still potentially only 1 point away at Berwick from qualifying for the lcup semi. It feels unlikely today but stranger things have happened.

Doh, good spot Kent not eastbourne. 2 matches were against eastbourne

ok lawson 6 (1 individual, 1 for Glasgow, 4 for Lakeside) lunna 1 (1 for glasgow) worrall 4 (2 individual, 1 for glasgow, 1 for BV) barker 3 (2 individual, 1 for glasgow) summers 1 (1 for glasgow) garcia 1 (1 for glasgow) ayres 5 (1 individual, 2 for kent, 1 for glasgow, 1 for coventry EL) Total 21 masters 1 (1 for wolves) etheridge 0 wolbert 1 (1 individual in Germany) riss 0 fisher 0 clegg 2 (1 for cradley, 1 for wolves) bewley 1 (1 for Belle Vue Colts) Total 5 Just to clear that up, it's not even close (21-5) then 4 Glasgow riders with at least 2 meetings to edinburghs 1 1 Glasgow rider with as many meetings as the entire edinburgh team How many practice sessions have Glasgow had on their own track 40% (2 of 5) of Edinburghs in the NL vs 9.5% for glasgow (2 of 21) 1 edinburgh rider with his 1st meeting in europe 1 edinburgh rider in only his 2nd meeting ever. Not putting this up as an excuse just an answer to the question above. It's up to Edinburgh and their riders to organise more meetings and be better prepared (I am sure they have had practice sessions and there have been a couple of rain offs) but given the stats above I think the performances today can be put into perspective. Everyone talks about the spring trophy being meaningless and too many matches against each other but normally edinburgh would have 2 challenges before a competitive match and they will need to find a way to address this next year.

Well done Glasgow, has to be said they were thoroughly deserving of their win today and on the evidence of today are contenders however it was really difficult to really judge anyone on that performance. There were big gaps between levels of riders but apart from no 1 glasgow were better but very early days Dan and Max were just not up to it today and never looked like beating a tiger, it will be a big challenge for Max to try to be competitive on away tracks this year and a tough debut for Dan but he'll have opportunities to come Jye got himself in points scoring positions a couple of times and showed signs of getting points but ended up with nothing. Will be disappointed but loads of time for this lad Nike, Fernando and Danny all made hey against their opposite numbers and put real pressure on Jye when they were behind and looked really good. However apart from heat 1 never looked like beating any of the monarchs top 4 (erik passed garcia very easily in the only other race they were ahead). If I was a tiger i'd be happy with that as if they beat their opposite numbers Glasgow will be the team to beat but no real opposition today. Erik and Ryan did the basics and it was an acceptable first away meeting no silly dropped points against reserves but only impact on the weeg top 4 was ryan in heat 13 before his puncture and then ben barker dropping a chain in 14 and gifting erik a win. Kevin and Richard will both think they should have done better but got all they deserved. Richie, Ben and Aaron all (chain excluded) only lost to Sam Masters, really solid and will be a tough top 3 to beat Sam Masters, a class above them all only Aaron was getting near him, only the graveyard gate 1 stopped him getting a deserved max. Cookie's are big boots to fill but I'm pretty confident he can fill them. Big question for Monarchs is who will step up and fill his role.

I totally agree it will be a struggle but will be the same for all of the no7s so some will pick up a few points in heats 2&4 hopefully Dan can do that

I agree Sharpen Rake it shouldn't be a discussion point. The bspa (not Glasgow or Edinburgh) should pick date and venue and make sure there are no other fixture conflicts. If that meant it was a Friday night at Glasgow then I would have no problem with it. Once the draw was made and we know the riders competing teams may choose to arrange a fixture the same night fair enough. The problem with your point is that Edinburgh, Plymouth and Somerset's fixture is not provisional all 3 are definitely having a meeting they just don't know their opponents yet. Now again all 3 could be told to use their alternate race night that week and again I would agree It doesn't solve the problem of Coventry vs lakeside probably the 2 teams with most British riders. Therefore the bspa should have told Glasgow that date was a nonstarter before other clubs were involved. This a bspa issue blown into a public Glasgow vs Edinburgh spat by Glasgow as it suits their agenda.

There is no could about it, Edinburgh will have a meeting that night. Every team in the league has a TBC against their name that week as it is scheduled for the league cup semi finals or more likely a rained off league cup group match. We all complain bitterly when the league cup is still running in october this 'free week' is when all clubs are supposed to get their finger out and get it sorted. Edinburgh never plan for a free week except the night of the pairs. The Glasgow promotion knew that, the sensible course of action would be to speak to Edinburgh and try to find out if there would be a problem and potentially arrange a compromise of some description. No instead they just want to pick a fight. BTW Somerset and Plymouth have a TBC match that night and it is Coventry vs Lakeside so James Sergeant, Chris Harris, Josh Bates, Danny King, Jason Garrity, Lewis Kerr, Lewis Bridger and Robert Mear are all definitely unavailable. Then Kyle Newman, Stefan Nielsen, Charles Wright, Paul Starke and Max Clegg would all potentially be unavailable for that night and that does not include opponents of the rebels, devils and monarchs. Does that sound like a sensible night to run the British Semi-Final?

Don't worry I won't fill up this thread like the Edinburgh one but suffice to say you are wrong there would be no rule breaking if Mitchell got a UK passport and the number 7 racejacket. The rule states British and qualify for NL, nothing more nothing less. He would qualify as British in the same way that Matthew Wethers qualifies to race for Berwick without a visa. I just think it is an ill thought out and rushed through rule that will probably be to the detriment of some riders and many teams who will have a rider who scores hee haw every week.

They didn't do it to stick 2 fingers up at anybody, that would be stupid. as with all other teams they are trying to build the best team possible within the constraints they have. Main constraints being the money they have and the average rules and limitations of the speedway system. They had to find the best british rider that qualified for the NL and was capable of performing in the PL. Now that is quite a small pool of riders and we will find out how small as the season goes along, competing for them with other teams who may already have them on their books or on their doorstep. The nature of the average rules also puts some riders in a great bargaining position when they haven't earned that right. I don't blame them completely for asking for a large sign on fee especially if they they cannot hold down a full time job as they would need every friday off to travel to scotland. Not to mention needing good equipment to perform at the higher level. However that doesn't mean edinburgh should pay it, especially if they have a perfectly good option already on their asset list.

I apologise for sounding like a broken record here but there is no loop hole, if he gets British citizenship which he is perfectly entitled to apply for then he has the exact same rights as any other 25 year old British rider who had a season or 2 in the PL that wasn't good enough to rule him out of the NL. There isn't any kind of 2 tier level of citizenship as Gazc keeps implying, that would be discriminatory. You don't have to like it or agree but that is the law and has nothing to do with the bspa. In the same way if Mitchell and his wife decided to move to Australia at some point in the future she would almost certainly apply for Aussie citizenship to gain employment. If a team found a young Australian rider and brought him over to an arranged marriage with a local girl just to get him a 3.00 average then I would agree as that would be illegal and completely wrong but that's not what happened. Someone tied to use Matty Wethers as an example to prove me wrong earlier but that is all the proof you need. If stormy was only Australian then he would not qualify for a visa in any shape or form as his final 2015 average was 4.96 and he has not competed in Australia at any level for several years. It is the reason why he was denied a place with Workington at the start of 2015. He now has British citizenship and no longer needs a visa, if Mitchell gets citizenship then he will be in the exact same boat. So you should direct your ire at Workington and Berwick as well. If they truly wanted to make it young british riders then it would have been under 23 or under 21. If they truly wanted to have new riders only you could say that you must never have ridden in the PL before; attained an average; raced only 1 season; raced less than100 meetings The rule does not stipulate any of that because there is not enough riders that are good enough and some they know would have been ruled out as a result. It would also make it even harder to keep the same rule next season (2017). That is one of the reasons why it is fundamentally flawed. I accept the point about the spirit of the rule but as I said before if you disagree with the rule you are hardly going to worry about the spirit of it.

but that is one of the reasons that most people take out dual nationality in all walks of life and employment, that and ease of entry into the country. Getting a UK passport will make it easier to gain any sort of employment so I'm sure he would have got a passport at some stage, he only got married last summer. It's not anywhere near as sinister as people are making out. Once he has a passport he will have the same rights as any other 25 year old british speedway rider. As I said before the only doubt is around his previous PL experience

Keep yer knickers on. You said he will be Australian with a British passport and the bspa will have to ratify him I don't agree. If he has a British passport there is nothing to discuss about nationality. The only debate would be whether his previous PL experience would for him out of the NL. My understanding is that as his average has never been above 6 he would be fine.