Vince

Two bolts that go al the way through the threaded holes in the rotor will do the job.

How about if they were to pay direct to the Promoter for each meeting shown 75% to the home team and the rest for the away side? No middleman taking a cut and encouragement for Promoters to produce good racing tracks and pick up the Sky money.

But at least I back up my statements with facts and figures rather than 'I don't like anything so this is no good'

I think that if Jawa had put cam timing marks on their engines perhaps people would have been a bit more willing to try and do their own valve grinding and piston rings at least. There seem to be lots of youngsters willing to strip and repair their pitbike engines. Presumably that is part way down to the lesser cost if they mess up but also they don't actually have to have a thorough understanding of how an engine works because everything is marked up and easy to reassemble. There does seem to be a culture of needing an NEB clutch and Blixt carb in Speedway long before they can benefit from either. Obviously anodized rims are the exception as they make anybody so much faster!

Isn't that the point? How many lads have bought supposedly good Speedway engines that have fallen apart within a couple of days practice? I have also seen more than one newcomer to the sport wash their bore because they don't know about laydown engines flooding. Given that they are new to the sport that'll be a complete rebuild with minimum new piston and recoated barrel if they are lucky and get the right guy to do the motor, if they are unlucky and get the wrong guy it could be double the price they paid for the engine. Secondhand stuff whether MX or Speedway is a bit of a minefield and it's easy for even experienced mechanics to buy a pup. I would also question your statement that MX parts are more expensive than their Speedway equivalent. I fairly recently bought a complete crankshaft and conrod ready assembled for my YZ450 for £211. The crankshaft in there was genuine as was the rod and big end so very likely had never been replaced. None of it was past it's useful life and could be refitted and that's on a bike that has over 170 hours on it, even a weiss big end bearing wouldnt do 5% of that! Admittedly it's 3 years since I bought any Jawa parts but that would have only bought a rod and big end bearing at that time. Pistons are between £110 and £160 depending on make so the top end stuff is about on par with Jawa, main bearings are expensive on a YZ at about £20 dearer than Jawa but most mx bikes are about the same. Valve train components are broadly similar in price. There are plenty of standard 450 engines running at British Championship level and not getting rebuilt every meeting (250's are a different matter!). Go to any deep sand track and you will hear MX engines working harder than they ever will on a Speedway track and they will be doing so for up to 100 minutes racing per day. The idea that they won't last if they are being revved hard on a Speedway track is misleading because they have built in rev limiters. These engines are used in Enduro's, Hare and Hounds, beach races and even Desert racing where they are wide open for longer than they ever will be on a Speedway track. At the level these bikes are intended for their standard service interval is about 25 hours or 900 races. Why would you not just run an FCR carb with a standard CDI? I wouldn't disagree that a standard 884 will last a long time in the hands of amateur or novice riders, if they learn to do basic servicing themselves then it would be low cost. There are way too many riders who can't even adjust tappets. There is still a lot more maintenance time on a Speedway bike than a MX bike where you don't strip clutches and carbs every meeting. I'm not convinced that F2 is the way forward either but what is happening now isn't working so something needs to change.

For me it would be perfect as I work while the majority of Speedway meetings are running. The opportunity to watch selected meetings at my convenience would be spot on and I suspect I could select meetings better than Sky sometimes do! However a setup cost of a 'few thousand pounds' will rule most promoters out I suspect, not because they have no vision but because they have no money to spare.

As I see it there is little room for dispute that at places where they are installed in front of a solid fence air fences are by far the best solution currently available. It can't be more than opinion as no matter how many statistics you compiled every crash is different and the injuries caused in different ways. My guess would be that more injuries are caused by riders hit by bikes than by impact with any type of fence. Where I still see room for debate is where collapsible fences are used. Again it's only my opinion but I still see Rye House as having the best fence I have seen, and hit. It slows you very quickly without stopping you completely. I just cannot see that installing an air fence at Rye will improve rider safety and, again only opinion, I think it very likely it could make it more dangerous. Whatever, there is no absolute right or wrong as the evidence isn't and never will be sufficient to provide the complete answer. Still seems like a reasonable question to me though!

Then the endless millions spent on researching road safety has been wasted when all they had to do was use common sense and surround the cars with foam rather than sophisticated crumple zones. Crash helmets are clearly the wrong way to go, common sense dictates that they should be air filled soft bags rather than a hard shell designed to reduce impact by collapsing. I still think it is fair to question whether air or foam fences are actually safer than the best collapsible fences already in use. Quite obviously at tracks where a collapsible fence isn't an option then a properly installed air fence is many times better than a solid wall but that isn't the case at every track and some tracks already have excellent fences and may be replacing them with something that will be worse.

Perhaps your 30 years experience of riding, watching or whatever will allow you to explain how an F2 Speedway bike with no brakes was ridden shorttrack style where they brake into the corner. Completely different style of riding, you might not have liked F2 Speedway but it wasn't ridden like a shorttrack bike. There have been quite a lot of riders and ex riders watch these bikes when I have been present over the past couple of years and until your post I have never known anybody comment that it wasn't 'proper' Speedway. Les Collins has a bit of Speedway knowledge, apparently his family have been around the sport a while! he seems to think it's Speedway and a good idea. Surely you would understand why I would value his opinion, especially considering that he has ridden the bikes, way above yours. There are some valid questions about availability of engines and possible vulnerability of radiators and so on that need answering (my opinion is that availability could be an issue, radiators and wiring are a lot tougher than they look, MX bikes take some big hits without falling apart). However something needs to change because as things stand nowhere near enough kids have any interest on getting on a Speedway bike. Pete Seaton (another bloke who has been around and knows a lot about Speedway) has put a hell of a lot of time and effort into something that he sees as the way forward. It may or may not be but it deserves a bit of sensible discussion rather than being written off after a quick look by somebody who appears to be anti just about everything. At the very least Pete is trying his best to do something positive.

I am not sure if you are fishing or if in your haste to whine about short track you expose your lack of understanding how bikes are ridden. I have seen quite a lot of these F2 bikes and have yet to see them ridden like a shorttrack bike, of course that would be impossible given that one has a brake and the other doesn't. The F2 is most definitely a 'proper' Speedway bike and is ridden as such. In fact those who lament the passing of the 2 valve Jap's and Jawa's will love these bikes as they are ridden in a similar style to which they were rather than the super aggressive style of modern Speedway. However it is 100% Speedway. Shorttrack is a completely different sport as you rightly point out. However as they use the same engines and ancillaries as these F2 bikes in similar circumstances the reliability comparison seems valid to me.

But I bet you were running it on dope so end up with the worst of both worlds! On Sunday we did a flattrack practice at Rye House, it was an open track practice so we could go on and off track as we pleased. I shared my bike with my son and would guess that we put something around 200 laps in between us. We are running a pace that would be about 4 or 5 seconds off PL race times so a decent speed for amateur Speedway. Maintenance consisted of checking the water level a couple of times and topping up with fuel once. Within 90 minutes of arriving home the bike was washed, oil changed and air filter replaced so apart from changing the rear tyre it's ready for the next outing. That is the same number of laps that have Speedway riders sending motors off to be serviced, nobody would dare put that many laps on a Speedway engine in 4 hours. I have a little mechanical knowledge and take about 40 minutes to shim valve clearances (including stripping and replacing the parts needed to get to them), done it twice on my bike in the past 2 years and it only actually needed adjusting once. No more technical than cleaning and adjusting a Blixt which you do every meeting as a Speedway rider. I do think there is a place for these bikes. If there were several in the system somebody new to the sport can turn up and do as many laps as they want without worrying about how much wear they are putting on the engine. They are around Speedway pits and bikes, learning for later without finding out the hard way that forgetting to pull the bike back on TDC can cost you £500. By the time they get on a full blooded Speedway bike they have learned their craft without frightening themselves stupid, Speedway bikes these days are a handful for anybody let alone beginners. They won't be put off by the constant maintenance for little riding time that is the lot of the Speedway rider. Some will move on to mainstream Speedway because they have the will and ability to progress. You could have them at training schools where bikes could be shared between riders and they could have a class at amateur meetings for starters. If you see these bikes being ridden it is Speedway exactly as you know it not something similar but the real thing. It has to be worth a look simply because the way things are currently isn't getting people into the sport.

A 2v Jawa or a JAP is still a very high compression engine with huge flywheels that vibrate, they do so at lower revs which could allow a little more reliability if modern manufacturing was bought into play. They were never anywhere near as reliable as a modern Japanese engine in any case. You would still be cleaning carbs and stripping clutches every meeting as well, the idea is to have something that needs minimal maintenance for newcomers to the sport. The power reduction is because of the way the engine is built to provide reliability not the other way around.

Manufacturing tolerences, water cooling, much lower compression ratios and mainly 50bhp instead of 75bhp. The Japanese are producing hundreds of thousands of these units and their customers would in no way accept engines with the lifespan of a Speedway engine. Neither do they need/ want the outright power so that is the trade off. As far as I am aware the idea is to have a formula that allows a cheaper and easier route into the sport rather than replacing what is already there. Presumably if they were ever to be bought into any of the leagues it would be a long term and gradual change

Availability of engines is a valid point in my opinion although more do come up for sale than seems logical. It would also be quite possible to buy a complete bike and end up paying very little for the engine by the time you sell off the rest. You can buy an older bike for about £1500 and get £600 back for the wheels and suspension alone. If you only get £200 back for the rest of the bike that gives you an engine and ancillaries for £700. Parts aren't much cheaper but their lifespan is huge compared to a Speedway engine, it would be reasonable to easily expect two or even three full seasons of Speedway without touching the motor in my opinion. Most manufacturers suggest 15 to 20 hours before stripping a 450 mx engine. 15 hours is getting toward 900 Speedway races! Nothing happens to the gearbox, you just use 2nd or 3rd gear and change rear sprockets same as any Speedway bike. Running on petrol means less compression which has a big influence on reliability. Radiator damage is always possible but you often see MX bikes take horrendous tumbles without damage. Radiator repairs are about £75 and in two seasons of being a bad shortrack racer who falls over a lot I have had to get one repair and that was only because I was daft enough to try and straighten a twisted rad. One big advantage I can see is that young riders could get into Speedway and ride every chance they get without having to spend anywhere near so much time working on the bike. It would literally be a case of washing down, change the air filter and lube the chain with an oil change every few meetings. No clutch plates or carbs to do and the bikes don't vibrate near as much so frames and engine plates and so on would last forever. It wouldn't be a replacement for current Speedway machines but a sensible route into the sport and well worth consideration. If passion for a project could make it successful you only need to talk to Pete Seaton for 5 minutes and you'll be convinced :-)

I've seen quite a lot of the bikes this year and do believe they could produce some good racing. As a cheaper way to get youngsters into the sport it just has to be worth a go as what has been happening the past 20 years hasn't got them flooding in.

I think it is a good to question the safety of air fences. Obviously we have all seen some spectacular incidents over the past few years where you immediately think that the air fence has saved a rider from serious injury. However while that may often be the case it is also often the case that you see riders walk away from spectacular crashes involving wooden fences, it is wrong to just assume that every rider who goes into the air fence hard would have been seriously injured had it been another type of fence. There is still a major issue with riders going underneath the fences and this has been a known problem for a number of years and has caused some horrible injuries. My opinion would be that air fences are a very good thing when properly installed and with something solid behind them. However that clearly isn't always the case and there are improvements that really need to be made before it can be automatically considered to be the best option. Again only my opinion that there are other fences, Rye House being my favourite, that are as good if not better than many air fences. Opinions, including mine, are all very well but like the original poster I believe that there needs to be facts to back it up. Just assuming that air fences are the best option because running into a bouncy castle is better than running into a wall is not really common sense at all.

Depends how it's used I think. You do read that somebody won't pay to watch a load of 'wobblers' when they are talking about NL racing. Clearly they haven't watched NL. However when referring affectionately to real novice racers it seems fair enough.

That could be the case if there was absolutely no dispute about the safety measure involved, however given some of the injuries to riders that have gone underneath fences there are still issues to be resolved about where they are definitley the best option.

I can understand why you would say that but clearly all safety is a compromise. If we are really going to put safety at the top of Speedway's agenda then we will see riders on mopeds, with brakes, sweep the dirt off the track and put rubber matting down. Clearly that's nonsense but Speedway is a very dangerous sport and there are huge compromises made with rider safety as there are with any dangerous sport. There seems no doubt that air fences help riders when the crash, however has anybody looked into the 'comfort factor' where riders feel safer so take more chances with an air fence? We keep reading that more riders have been injured this season than ever before (I'm not at all sure that's true) and there are more air fences than ever before so how does that stack up? There are still major issues with the installation of air fences and what is behind them if riders go underneath to be resolved. I have Rye House and Kings Lynn left to race at this season, if I go hard into the fence I would much rather it be the wooden one at Rye than the air fence at Lynn, no criticism of Kings Lynn where they have made it as safe as possible but my opinion is that Rye is about the best fence I know. As ever with these things it isn't straight forward and if clubs are faced with closure because of an air fence can the sport just allow that to happen?

Thanks for the explanation, cleared some things up for me. For sure Speedway looks like (and mainly is) a blue collar sport and I can't see that changing. Presumably C2DE people outnumber ABC1 by quite a margin so is that necessarily a bad thing? Clearly I am no expert but as ever when I read about demographics and advertising I can't help but think that media and advertising types use the 'bulls**t baffles brains' approach to make themselves good money out of common sense

Rye practice cancelled Sunday 25th August due to Bank holiday meetings.

Genuine questions because I know jack about advertising. Do Mercedes pay more for the same time slot than DHS? Which sports attract that apparently preferable demographic? You say Football but I don't believe for one minute that percentage wise their demographic is hugely different to Speedway though clearly numbers of each group would be far higher. I am guessing Tennis, Rugby, equestrian sports but then am struggling. Something like F1 would undoubtedly be on the list live but I suspect armchair viewers are little different to Speedway. Darts and Snooker must be the most obvious case of having the less desirable demographic yet both take up incredible amounts of prime time TV how does that fit in? I am with Grand Central as well in that I am not entirely convinced you are right about the current demographic for Speedway.

I used to work for Jimmy Squibb and he told me that when the Jawa came in it was cheaper to run than a JAP because it only needed servicing every 6 meetings. If I remember correctly he used well known 'tuner' of the time, Mike Erskine although he would sometimes take the head off and lap the valves in himself. I can believe that about Phil Crump, presumably his engine would have been built by Neil Street in those days. Neil was an exceptional engineer and if anybody could put an engine together to last a season it would have been him. The most reliable engine that I have heard tale of was the 897 Jawa which was a 4 valve upright. Certainly my 2v Jawa wouldn't have lasted an entire season and it only went at half the speed of Phil Crump's. However it was also serviced by a first year apprentice truck fitter so didn't really have a chance of reliability

I wonder if the demograph of Sky subscribers matches the apparently desirable ABC1's?

I would disagree with just about everything you say :-) A 2 valve engine is very little, if any, different to maintain than a 4 valve. There is a perception that 2 valve engines ran on forever but in my experience that just isn't true. If you took a 60's Jawa 2 valve and tuned it to the levels that riders want/ need these days it wouldn't last half as long as the current engines. If they were still run at 9000rpm then they would last longer but a 4v would last longer still. Riders could maintain a 4 valve engine in the same way many used to (many used to use tuners then as well) but as I said in a previous post expectations of equipment are very much higher from riders, promoters and fans alike. Racers in any motor sport are subject to feeling the need for the very best equipment and Speedway is no different. If rider A has the latest all singing all dancing parts then rider B feels he needs the same to be competitive. Whether he actually does or not may be a different matter but the fans will never forgive him if he loses them a trophy because he didn't have the best equipment. Increased wage demands? I think that in real terms riders of the past earned more from Speedway than they do today. However promoters could afford more and whether the demands of todays top riders can be met might be a different story. I have followed Speedway since 1967 or 1968 and believe that the racing I see today is better than any I saw in my youth. The atmosphere has gone with the crowds but the racing and the skill level of todays riders is brilliant imo. Is a Speedway engine today really more expensive than it was in the 60's? Just from memory I would say that there were less injuries in the 70's but more were very serious. Riders today seem to be on the edge the whole time and need to be to win so there do appear to be a lot more crashes. However that is just an opinion and I have no facts to support it.