Vince

Having the worlds best riders at every meeting wouldn't attract a single newcomer to the sport for the simple reason that unless you already know Speedway you would have no idea who they are. I detest the tactical ride with a vengeance and the world cup joker even more but I don't believe that a single newcomer has been put off by it because they don't know about it. I agree that if riders don't touch the tapes and haven't rolled it should be a good start, I hope never again to see riders allowed to move at the start though. Whichever way you do it makes no difference to newcomers. It's OK harping back to the good old days but they just coincide with whenever you first used to go to Speedway. For some it's the 50's (when the sport was closer to disappearing than it is now) for some the 60's (me, but I can remember some distinctly lacklustre meetings and bad tracks) the 70's, 80's and 90's also get a mention now and again. Truthfully the sport had a small window where it was mainstream, just after the war when people were starved of entertainment and the sport was promoted as (and was) dangerous as well as being available on people's doorstep. It continued to attract national coverage in the press on the back of those few years but eventually that generation disappeared and the interest along with it. To my way of thinking Speedway (along with any other sports) will never again attain that level of coverage so has to be realistic in it's expectations. At the moment that means reducing costs to ensure survival in lean times while taking small steps (like the draft riders) toward future survival. Hopefully in the future it will mean using more up to date marketing methods and producing a product that will appeal to youngsters. Before anybody says that means that I am obviously happy with the way the sport is run now I should say there are many things I believe would help the sport a great deal that aren't done. However as most of those things would mean financial investment and it's neither my money nor do I know the financial standing or restrictions on the majority of clubs then assuming I know better than the people who have those facts would be foolish. As for PC, one of my heroes, fantastic rider and surely as entitled to an opinion as anybody else.

But only if the majority of the shareholders agree presumably

So if somebody wants to step in and run the Speedway what is actually going to happen with the revenue from the rest of the site? Surely the two are tied together.

You'd have to consider it but I always thought the Speedway was the whole point of the involvement and isn't it all owned by the shareholders? I don't really know the set up over there these days not having been over for about 3 years but I hate the thought of losing the place just the same.

I guess that makes it even more unlikely to continue then if the other stuff can't offset the cost of the Speedway.

I didn't know that, I am sure the bar and catering at least was once income for the Speedway. That could explain why the Speedway has been struggling so much the past couple of years.

I'm not sure if you are deliberately missing the point. Some do, by far the majority at any amateur event turn up in vans these days, that's because they are cheap enough to buy and run and comfortable enough these days that they can be used as everyday transport. Those that do use a car and trailer do so when they leave home at a sensible time on a Sunday morning and arrive back late afternoon or early evening. Unlike Speedway riders who are out and about at all hours, any day, any weather and sometimes have to use a services at 2am. Personally I wouldn't leave a bike on a trailer at 2am in most services. You seem to keep telling everybody that it's about riders wanting to be 'fashionable' when in fact it is by far the most sensible and cost effective option. Clearly you have not run a modern van for yourself so why not listen to those who have that experience?

I can answer that! Firstly amateur Speedway is different, clubs run meetings weekends and the riders pay to enter just the same as the other sports you mention. If you ride MotoX, Trials or Grasstrack you do so nearly always on a Sunday, you also pick and choose the meetings you want to do or can fit in around other commitments. Equally you ride when and where you can afford to, if you have major problems with your bike you sit out a few meetings until you can afford to fix it. If you ride Speedway at NL level you ride when and where you are told, it is hugely difficult to fit in a job around your Speedway commitments. You get fined if you turn up late or lose your team place if you can't get any more time off work. You lose your team place (and any hope of progressing in the sport) if you can't turn up with good bikes because you have had problems and the money has run out. Even running on a shoestring it cost me more for one lad to ride NL Speedway than it did for myself and two lads to ride local MX. The major expense was always the travelling and time off work but don't go back to the van conversation because you are wrong! It is right that costs need to be reduced but the set pay rate for NL isn't going to cover anybody's costs let alone see them making money. Do away with the payment and you will end the sport as the vast majority of riders couldn't survive. Cost reduction has to come from the reliability and maintenance of machinery and for the NL possibly enforcing the pay rates better (but even then the Island has the unique problem of it's location making it a longer trip, therefore more time off work, for the majority of riders).

In the same way you deviated away from the original subject into a non-stop attempt to analyse figures that were irrelevant as the minority clue is in the title?

Suggest what you like, Trafic 1.9TD - up to date van of the kind used by many riders, cheaper to run than modest 1600cc Megane without a trailer - fact. Poor poppet? get over your arrogant self. Isle of Wight are not going to be saved by any possible miniscule reduction in rider costs, possibly by a large cash injection and finding ways to increase crowds. Spent a great many Tuesdays and Thursdays there and the difference between the school holidays and the rest of the year is incredible. Don't really know what the answer is as it only takes a few rain offs during those important weeks and the season must be trashed. Be a great shame to lose yet another big track from the sport.

My young family were driven everywhere in a van, the kids wanted to race bikes as I did, the missus didn't drive so we used a van as everyday transport for years. The wife now has a car, I still want to race bikes so use a Transit for pretty much everything. When my youngest was riding Speedway I had a Trafic van that was actually cheaper to run than the wife's Megane, hence I can't help but be offended on their behalf when it is suggested that riders could save money by using a car rather than a 'fancy transporter'.

No more expensive to run a van than a big car these days and as most use them as everyday transport you wouldn't save a penny. I am sure most riders would be very happy to run one bike now but the teams and more importantly the fans wouldn't accept it. Fans expectations of professionalism are probably the biggest reason for the cost increases over the years. Once upon a time they would accept that Fred had to work for a living and may not have the finances or time to turn up with immaculate equipment. No such acceptance these days, just look at the posts on here if a rider has a spell of breakdowns or turns up with dirty kit. It's not even acceptable in the NL where everybody has to work (if not the riders then the parents do). It used to be notable for a rider to turn up for every meeting with really immaculate kit (somebody like Jimmy Squibb was well known for it) now it is the norm.

I'll bet that's what those who follow diving, squash, mountain biking etc said about Tai. Whether we like it or not Speedway is a minority sport these days and riders haven't been household names for several generations. Having a World Champion is great and has generated some good press coverage but it won't change much for the sport. So overall I would say better a big fish in the small pond than a little one in the small pond which are the realistic alternatives!

Point out where I said everything is alright and you would have a logical argument! You can moan all you like but the hands the sport is in at the moment are pretty much the only people who are interested in putting their money into the sport. Unless you are in the position to invest in Peterborough or Sheffield and change the way the sport is run from the inside then moaning on a forum and not having any effect is as good as it's going to get.

If these people weren't supposedly running the sport into the ground it would already be dead. You might not like the way they do it but if they didn't put up the money to buy and run the clubs it would all be long gone!

Most businesses reinvest part of their income for the future in one way or another. Quite likely the best investment for the future of British Speedway is to increase the amount of local riders and therefore reduce future costs. It seems logical to me for clubs to cut costs to a level where this can be achieved rather than continue to run at a loss until everybody gets to the point they can no longer survive. However it is easy to see the temptations for Promoters to spend money on top riders, the expectations of their customers mainly.

Just like British Superbikes where the top 6 go into the 'showdown'

I don't think you can count having an accident as failing Marcus. What you do for these kids is a huge undertaking and greatly appreciated, one year of unavoidable cancellation has to be taken in the context of the years you have and will run.

I can't imagine that anybody would listen and take advice from somebody who called them an idiot. That sort of language is common on this forum and therefore breeds resentment rather than respect despite the fact that the majority are able to offer an opinion in a proper way.

Put me down as one against any tactical changes. I would be happy to see every race run to the programme and if a rider is withdrawn from a meeting injured his remaining rides taken by R/R rather than only a reserve. To stop cheating any rider withdrawn injured has to also miss the clubs next meeting. To me Speedway should be all about 4 lunatics racing not a management game.

Being old I can remember the helmet law coming in, what I can't remember are examples of riders being badly hurt because they were wearing them rather than the previously accepted safety equipment. That argument could only hold water if there were previously no fences in place. The arguments against introducing helmets were all based on individual freedom, there was never any dispute about them being safer. However riders like Chris Holder and Luke Priest are there as examples that all is not right with the air fence and both would very likely have received far less serious injuries with a solid or mesh fence. To my mind there is absolutely no doubt that in the majority of cases an air fence provides increased safety for riders, however there are also circumstances where other fences are likely to be at least as safe and quite likely better. Air fences at their best are brilliant, poorly installed they can be bloody dangerous.

Depends whether the air fence stays there or decides to jump out of the way and reveal some sharp objects pointing in my direction!

You called somebody else cynical then make a crass comment like that. There might be riders like that but there are also many more who will take huge risks to gain an extra point for their team and not even think of the money. If they only raced for the money they would never take the risk of hurting themselves or writing a bike off at a cost of dozens or even hundreds of points.

Apparently he has already offered to do it for free but nobody took him up on it. Perhaps if he worked on his own customer relations skills instead of telling them how stupid they were for not doing things his way they would be a little more keen. I think he has some decent ideas but some unrealistic expectations of the results. As for his saying that anybody is getting personal he really needs to go back through this topic and see how many times he has called people fools and stupid. Perhaps this IT expert could work for a percentage of the gate increase compared to last year, if Synalikes got it right they would be on a decent screw.

The main protection is offered by under-suits with armour anyway, I only know 2 people who make Kevlar suits and have to say that the idea they are uninterested in rider safety is nonsense in both cases. I personally believe that leather offers better protection but then I generally wouldn't be riding more than once a week, for Speedway riders the option of being able to chuck a set of kevlars in the washing machine several times a week while you work on the bike must seem unbeatable.