Halifaxtiger

Definitely better last time I went - I couldn't believe my eyes. That plus Ward's presence will probably persuade me that this will be a better option than Workington v Newcastle.

My understanding of the fast track system is that the original idea was for it to be in the PL but they didn't want it. I certainly agree that there should be something similar in the PL - having watched Dan Greenwood be almost unbeatable in the NL yet be half a lap behind in the PL something needs to change.

It was Dave Dowling. Its a pity this business has overshadowed what was a highly entertaining meeting - at least partly as a result of the much maligned tactical ride rule. What was most pleasing was to see riders using the outside of the 4th bend to pass - the impressive Jonas Andersen in particular. I haven't seen that happen at STMP for years.

And yet....................in my trips to Glasgow this season their gates have at least doubled. I was told that at the TVmatch the place was packed, so that must be around 2,500 people. I wonder how many extra fans will be at Leicester tomorrow to see Darcy Ward ? Its probably enough to convince me to go there instead of Workington. The problem for Scunny was that they got off to a disastrous start, even losing at home to a poor Redcar side. I was there for the opener against Sheffield and RobGodfrey was thanking everyone for going because the gate was so good. Local derby maybe, but a few poor home performances will have fans leaving and its very difficult to get them back. To me, that's the major reason why things are the way they are. It certainly isn't the quality of the racing, the presentation or the speed that meetings are run.

To be fair, you didn't. What you did say, though, was that speedway's rule book takes away any sense of fair play. Looking at it through the eyes of a football (or most other sports fans), you might well be right. Looking at it through the eyes of a speedway fan, however, I could make a decent argument that the double points rule does precisely the opposite as it evens up the significant advantage the shape, size and preparation of tracks creates. As I have said, though, neither doubling up or tactical changes are new. In fact, they have been around for 50 years. You can. And then we can all sit and complain about one sided hammerings with no point in staying after about heat 6. I repeat: tactical changes have been in force in speedway for half a century. They're not new, novel or bizarre. There is sound, reasoned thinking behind them and that's why we still have them. To give an example, I was at Belle Vue last Monday week. At heat 6, Poole were up by 10. No tactical changes, and there would have been every chance that the meeting would have been an entirely dead rubber with the Aces, in particular, going through the motions. We've all seen it. A tactical change in the next heat, an 8-1 to Belle Vue and it was game on. A thoroughly enthralling and riveting match was the result. No doubt the undeniably beneficial effect the TR had in that meeting sticks in the craw of every fan who dislikes tactical changes but there's one thing that none of them can argue with: they can and have on many occasions had the effect of transforming a crap, one sided meeting into something far better. On that basis alone, why would anyone even think of getting rid of them ?

You simply cannot judge speedway by the rules of another sport. Someone coming into speedway might find guests (and doubling up/down riders), points limits and tactical changes bizarre but they have been in force in speedway for decades and, if you think about it rather than making an instant judgement prejudiced by the regulations of some other sport, with good reason. Try turning the situation round. How about having a rule in speedway where certain riders are only allowed on certain parts of the track at certain times and then it depends on where the opposition are. Ridiculous ? Its called offside in football. Football pitches and their markings are subject to standard size requirements (as are the goals) to stop any advantage that exceptional dimensions might give. If Chelsea's pitch were three times the size of everyone else's, their goals half the size and their grass 18 inches high, it is entirely possible there would be some measure in place to counter their advantage. What might appear to take away any sense of fair play is, on most occasions, entirely reasonable.

I must admit that in sharp contrast to the PL, I haven't heard any such noises from the EL or NL. Not sure its their real level but it might well be an option. It would be dreadful to see it close altogether.

Fingers crossed for the Scorpions - I rate it as the best racing track in the land and I have been to them all. In addition, they try hard to cut down delays and I think Rob on the mic is one of the best in the game. There are one or two tracks whose product and attitude leave a lot to be desired but Scunthorpe most definitely isn't one of them. They deserve better. I think the on track performances have definitely had an impact (as they would do anywhere). The team has been disappointing. I don't think for one minute Rob is bluffing here in an attempt to boost numbers because he said the same things at the end of last season. Finally, what I have heard is that Scunny aren't alone here. Possibly as much as half of the PL is at risk.

Didn't stop me marvelling at Tai Woffinden's incredible last to first on Saturday night, seeing Matej Zagar at his sublime best at Belle Vue (because when he's good, he's very, very good), watching Jack Holder hold off Simon Stead for three laps at Sheffield or witnessing a terrific race between Danny Halsey and Kyle Hughes at King's Lynn. Great speedway at every level of our sport and not affected by fluff in the slightest. And that's the point. As far as I am concerned, the rule bending, the cheating, the backbiting and the viciousness simply doesn't exist when those four blokes drop their clutches. I have a lot of regard for you, Ian, you know that. But for the life of me I can't grasp the mentality of walking away from the sport that you have admitted you love for the sake of one rule. In the overwhelming majority of cases, that's simply not true. On Friday night, a friend of mine posted pictures on Facebook of her little girl with first Danny King and then Rohan Tungate and that is repeated across the sport.

I remember when thousands attended meetings, when the British League had all the top riders in the world and when England were world champions for team, pairs and individual. The sport itself is exactly the same today, though. The racing wasn't better then, we still had tactical changes, points limits and guests ,there were still squabbles about the make up of teams and rules, the toilets were a disgrace, tracks existences couldn't be taken for granted and promoters were always trying it on. The only difference between then and now are the attendances. I'd like to go to the days of huge crowds but, quite simply, its still all about 4 blokes on bikes without brakes. If you like that, why stop going ? What annoys me is that those who do most of the moaning don't even go.

Dead right Tsunami told me years ago that its about 4 blokes on bikes without brakes for 4 laps for 3 points and that everything else is more or less fluff. Best and most profound statement I have ever heard about the sport and as valid and correct today as its ever been.

Use the one RR has listed above. Not having any problems at all.

I must admit I am finding it very hard to see how anyone (and I'd I fully accept its a matter of personal opinion) can term that GP as 'rubbish'. Surely Woffinden's fantastic last to first alone gets it above that, and there was a lot more decent racing than that one heat. Personally, I thought it was pretty good. Maybe Tai did go a little over the top with his wheelies but he has said that the reception he got out when he went out on the track was incredible and he wanted to thank everyone. As such, what he did was understandable at the very least.

I'll refer you to TWK's eloquent arguments on the subject of the Confederacy's war aims. Somerset have had that logo for 17 years and Oxford and White City had it before them. I have never heard a single complaint about it until this thread, and that's almost certainly provoked by an evil maniac sporting the Confederacy flag killing innocent people in Charleston and the reaction to it in the USA. As I have said, there are those who have twisted its use to their own ends. The difference between the Confederacy Flag and the Swastika in this country at least is incalculable, and you know that only too well. I doubt if many people from this country know more about the Southern Cross than is it is something to do with the southern states of the USA. The swastika will be known to almost all as the symbol of tyranny, mass murder and genocide. I have never heard of anyone - until this thread - objecting to the Confederacy flag on any grounds whatsoever. T

Nonsense. The confederate flag represents the Rebel states during the American War of Independence and has remained the symbol of the Southern states ever since. Some, however, might have twisted it to represent something other than that. The Confederacy flag cannot solely be seen to be a symbol of white supremacy simply because those who practice such beliefs use it as their banner. Or is the Union Jack to be deemed racist because right wing groups use it here ? A devil represents Satanism, black magic and heaven knows what else. Buxton's Hitman represents someone who kills other people for money or clan loyalty. Taking it to ludicrous conclusions, some might indeed find such emblems offensive (although I suspect that if everyone's objections were taken into account we'd be left with Barrow's appalling 'Happy Faces' and little else). Most of us, I suspect, would never even think about it and just accept them as absolutely harmless team nicknames and colours. I can't believe that such ridiculous political correctness has even reached the BSF.

Up until the middle of last month, I'd have agreed. However, the last meeting I saw at Leicester (against Wolverhampton) - or about half of it - was pretty good. It just shows that Beaumont Park can produce decent racing. I don't think that's true. Some tracks are most definitely better than others. I suppose its a matter of personal opinion but I think the last three matches I have seen - at Lakeside, Mildenhall and Belle Vue - were all good. As to genuinely great meetings, I'd agree they are rare. Then again, they are in every other sport, too.

I agree and I also very much enjoyed the meeting. There wasn't a lot of passing - Zagar's sublime move on Janowski in heat 10 (I think) being an exception - but it was riveting due to the closeness of the scores. Cook and Nicholls didn't have good meetings but I have no cause to doubt their effort at all and that very much confirms your view about a fighting performance. As to the TR, I think this was an occasion which showed why speedway has them. A meeting that somewhat dead and buried at heat 6 was brought back to life and I am sure the 8-1 the Aces gained was part of the reason why they showed so much spirit in the latter half of the match. Couple of other points: very pleasing to see the progress on the new stadium (that, according to some, would never be built). An insert programme for £3............but at least Belle Vue told everyone that that was the case .

I am saddened to hear this news...........and a little surprised to discover that there were those who disliked her. She was part of this forum when I first joined and although I never met her I found her to be passionate, determined, thoroughly likeable (as far as I could make out) and ever so slightly bonkers - in my book, an absolutely winning combination. It is tragic that she lost her life so early. RIP.

I have no doubt in the overwhelming majority of cases that it is an 'expression of relief' as you put it, and its almost certain that every track has fans who choose to behave in such a fashion. As to fans wishing harm on riders, I suspect that some might quite like to see a rider notorious for making dirty moves getting his comeuppance at the hand of another - providing the outcome isn't too serious. I once saw a rider (at a track that no longer exists) savagely barracked by members of the home crowd for apparently throwing a race (he was at the back, his partner on a TR third). The barracking continued right up until the point that the ambulance came out - as it happened, he'd broken his ankle. To me, therefore, its a matter of thinking before reacting. After all, its far from impossible that a video might show a rider being seriously injured - or even paying the ultimate price - to the sound of fans celebrating. In such circumstances, you & I (and other speedway fans) might appreciate the point about 'expression of relief' but I suspect our voices would utterly drowned by those expressing repugnance and horror.

XC weather says negligible rain after 4pm and only light stuff before.Met office is different but experience tells me those sods are often wrong or change their minds at the last minute.

Bryn has the decency to come on here and let everyone know what the weather conditions are and you have a pop at him. Grow up. Bjerre was poor and a pale shadow of the GP rider he was a few seasons ago. I thought this was a cracking meeting and one that reinforced my belief that Lakeside is one of the best racing tracks in the EL. I can only think that those who constantly criticise it never go there, have an axe to grind or are reliant on its reputation from years ago.

Bit harsh - it was better than that. I managed to get an edit in about heat 15 and Will- very convincingly- blame the fact that I am posting using a mobile phone and a weak internet connection for the error !! Kurtz did move, though, and the referee's failure to do anything cost the Witches dear.

Not a classic but not a bad meeting either, conditions for racing not being helped by a short but sharp shower half way through. Couple of excellent races late on - I am still not sure how Ruddick finished third in heat 14 and the Hughes/Halsey duel in heat 15 was as good as I have seen anywhere. Both teams deserve a great deal of credit for the commitment and effort they put in on the night - its rare that you see a rider give anything less than 100% at NL level, something that can't always be said about their EL and PL equivalents.

At the risk of being out of sinker I thought this was a cracking meeting with some good racing and a knife edge ending. As far as I could see Kurtz moved at the start of the crucial heat 13 but it was Ipswich that got punished.

First of all, I'd ask how happy you would be if Debbie Hancock and Colin Hamilton were to make a ruling on whether a rider was eligible to ride for Edinburgh or not. If you said 'not very' I'd understand completely yet here we have Alex Harkess and Rob Godfrey (at least potentially) deciding whether an ex Scunthorpe rider can sign for Edinburgh's nearest and dearest and one of their most serious rivals for the PL this season. I have rarely heard a word to question Harkess' integrity (outside of Coventry, that is) but the scope for allegations of bias is unquestionable. On Sunday I was told that one promoter, when told of Glasgow's plans to sign Howe, commented 'but that means you'll win the league'. His motivation in making such a decision is clear and hardly gives confidence that there will be an informed and objective conclusion to this matter. I fully take your point about cost but, like everything else, its whether the outlay would be worth it. With fans incensed about the corruption at the heart of the sport and the potential for bent decisions being made it might well be worth a levy of £10per week per club (or less than one entry fee) accepting a fee of £500 for the person concerned and there being 10 or so decisions made per season. British justice is based upon openness, lack of prejudice, explanation, reason, culpability and precedent. BSPA rulings are directly the opposite: closed and arbitrary decisions with precedent being disregarded made by interested parties without explanation. That has to end, and its not lost on me that exactly the same circumstances could arise next season and a completely different conclusion drawn to which we, paying spectators, will not be party or allowed the benefit of a statement of reasons. Recent decision making certainly doesn't inspire confidence. Bradley Wilson-Dean of Eastbourne rides in the NL so must have patriality. SCB regulations clearly state that a rider coming from the NL has a PL average of 3.00, yet Wilson-Dean has been ruled to have a 5.00. Why ? Your guess is as good as mine, but inevitably there is a suspicion that bias and jealousy regarding the availability of a very talented but very southern based rider come into account. Perhaps the most pertinent point is that even if a person could be found with the right credentials to make independent decisions for free there's no doubt that the BSPA wouldn't be interested. They want to retain the present system because it suits them, regardless of the damage it does to the sports credibility. I'd accept that 'shameful' might be a little strong to describe actions in this case but on this point it is very apt indeed.