Halifaxtiger

Not an unreasonable point but Workington have 4 home meetings left so they are into October without any rain offs. I can't help but think that the attendance won't be affected by the absence of Cook and Jorgensen anyway. I think its make your mind up time for the people of Workington to decide whether they want a speedway team or not. Gates haven't been brilliant all season but I am told they have been disastrous recently. Laura Morgan has been pretty honest about the prospects for 2018 unless attendances improve and I hope people respond - its a good racing track, the team is still attractive and the promotion are as good as any.

There's no question that it is a matter of value for money, at least to a degree. The play off final at Belle Vue last season was £25. It was a fantastic meeting in front of a full house with a near cliff edge finish. It was worth every penny and doubt if anyone else who was there thought otherwise.

Personally, I'd say you're easily pleased. You don't care what the product is like as long as the rules are correct. As far as I am concerned, that's bizarre. Speedway fans go to speedway to watch the speedway. The rules and regulations will always be secondary to the quality of the product. I certainly think that there is a change in attitude (albeit a limited one) from the get what you are given to giving you what you want. That's precisely where we need to go. Its the Isle of Wight example that needs to be copied. How about this : An elderly, disabled lady loves speedway but couldn't get to the track, so she used to listen to the sound of the bikes from her garden. Barry Bishop heard about it, arranged a taxi for her and she now comes every week. Doesn't cost the club a penny, as the taxi and entry fee are sponsored. Just how good is that ?

So if the racing was fantastic every week, the presentation incredible, the centre green like Kew Gardens, food 5 star and entry free, you still wouldn't go ? On the other hand, if the racing was rubbish, the presentation non existent and it was £20 to go in but the rules spot on you would ? The racing is everything, because that's why we go. The corruption at the heart of the sport, doubling up and heaven knows what else are infuriating but when I am watching 4 blokes on bikes with brakes tear round a track they rarely count for anything.

From 8 tracks. There are 28 in British Speedway. As such, judgement would be made on less than one third of that available and based upon a handful of meetings. Hardly convincing. Even then, you still can't comment on presentation, delay, facilities and a score of other relevant factors. Agreed, I suspect I'd have more chance of being the next NASA recruit than you would of getting it even if you did apply. I have said this before but on the rare occasions we have chatted I found it to be an education. As such, I'd say you would be an asset.

Yes, indeed, but as I said its about commenting on speedway as a whole. Commenting on others experiences fails to take account of potential bias and is nothing compared to having those experiences yourself. How do you know its great if you are not there to watch it ? You can't base a view on the state of current speedway on experiences from the past, and Isle of Wight is the classic example : you have to be there to know what it is like.

I don't think that's true Dean, short of the fact that while others have had some seriously crooked decisions made in their favour IOW have had nothing. Word is, though, is that Peter Morrish finishes this year and providing we get someone half decent (you, maybe ?) that is a huge step in the right direction for the NL. As far as I am concerned, he is cowardly, incompetent and prejudiced and I can say quite honestly I have never heard a good word about him. What IOW do is actually pretty simple : they treat a paying fan as someone who they want to come back again (as Barry says, dinner at his house). You would have thought that would be standard practice but we all know it is anything but. Hostility, aggression and abuse are common place. That's one of the principle reasons why speedway is on its knees - the take them for granted, if you don't like it, don't come, doing us a favour attitude that seems to pervade almost everywhere. 5 for me and I live in Yorkshire. Only Scunthorpe, Sheffield, Belle Vue & Workington will top that. I loathe intervals but IOW make them part of the show and there's no doubt that the highlight for some of the children attending is the bike and running race at interval time. Without that, its possible that they (and their parents) might not come. Compare that to standing around getting cold, annoyed and unhappy at Birmingham on Wednesday when they had their interval. On your last two points, spot on. The moaners don't affect me, though, nor should they affect anyone else because that's all they do. Their view isn't balanced, fair or objective, its biased unfair and subjective so you can just basically ignore them. In addition, most of them don't go. That means you can't comment on the racing, the presentation, the stadium or any other aspect of what goes on during a meeting. How you can have an informed opinion on speedway as a whole without that is beyond me.

Personally, I'd say the insult is that Panthers could have had a stronger line up but chose not to - with or without Boxall.

His departure wasn't exactly on good terms. I trust that isn't an attempt to justify the selection of Boxall for Harris because it doesn't cut it at all.

Beyond criticism if that is true. Whatever the situation with Ged Rathbone and whether you agree with BSPA/SCB actions where he is concerned, to then deliberately sabotage another club's - and one which has only recently indicated their financial difficulties - chances of pulling in a paying attendance is both vicious and repugnant. Whatever has happened n British speedway this season, for me this is a new low and, if it can be found that Peterborough are tracking a team that is weaker than that that would be available, they should be heavily fined.

Word I have is that that is absolutely untrue and that Michael Palm Toft is ready to load his van up as a guest for Wilson-Dean or Harris. Despite the fact that that would undoubtedly make them stronger on track, they have chosen to include Roynon even though they are well aware of the acrimonious state of affairs between Roynon and the Workington promotion. This could have serious consequences and, if so, that will be entirely down to Peterborough.

I suspect that part of the reason for that is that they have no wish to boast about just how poor that Peterborough team is. I was due to go today but for a couple reasons I can't now. Having seen that Panthers line up - and this is absolutely no fault of Workington's whatsoever - I am not unhappy about it. Its extremely difficult to believe that they couldn't get someone better than Boxall, especially taking into account that he rode at Plymouth last night. That sort of utter selfishness and the lack of concern about another club's fortunes is one of the principle reasons why speedway is on its knees.

Very different in one sense to King's Lynn : that wasn't abandoned by the referee. Rory Schlein is undoubtedly a trouble maker in these circumstances (and I'd agree that he should consider whether he should continue to be a speedway rider) but its difficult to suggest that he didn't have a very real case here. I have absolutely no reason to question Pirate Nick's integrity and would therefore accept his comments without any doubts at all, and I can't believe that Barbara Horley would call a meeting off if the riders (or even a majority of them) wanted to continue. Nick is also right about preparing a decent track surface because even if this meeting had continued to the end it would surely have been ruined as a spectacle by riders considering their safety rather than beating the opposition. In this case, it appears to me that fingers should be very much pointed at Peterborough speedway rather than the referee or any particular rider and if they are in difficulties they are the masters of their own downfall.

Agreed. That wasn't Scunthorpe's fault, though. I thought in the time it took to prepare the track Workington could have got changed and warmed the bikes up and we would be away. I couldn't believe it when they did a track walk - and Rob didn't look too pleased either. The fact that it was 45 minutes was down to the referee. Without his intervention, it would have been longer. One other thing : James Sarjeant showing off after race Mind you, he didn't anticipate the formidable Mrs Godfrey having a word afterwards HT always gives good fair comments on Scorpions meetings. Had Auty and MPT ridden as they usually do . the win could have been for Scorpions. However they obviously didn't like or couldn't get on with the dry dusty track! so no blame on them! That's why I like the night meetings....please night meetings next year Rob! Rob has said they will go back to night meetings if they get the gates. Definitely better speedway in the evenings, but no-one can blame him for sticking with Sundays if attendances are better. Speaking of that, Sunday was one of the better ones this season.

Word was he got filled in and collided with the items (fire extinguishers etc) near the starting date. It was Palm Toft that hit the starting marshal not his bike and it was a complete and total accident. The first meeting was disappointing in terms of racing and equally as disappointing were Auty & Palm Toft. The second meeting was much better, and so were Palm Toft and Auty. Workington were poor and Sarjeant worse. A quick word for the referee, Chris Durno. Not only did he keep the meeting moving along as quickly as he could - with Rob Godfrey in complete agreement - he also made sure that the second meeting started sooner than might have been the case. Not often referees get praised on here, but he did an excellent job

I think that's dead right and, to be fair, you have to increase your crowd a fair bit if you cut entry prices. At best its a gamble and its been tried many times, usually to the cost of the promotion. I think Belle Vue did it bang on because it was a one off (they haven't done it since) to get people in and hope that they stay. Decent opposition, tv cameras, good promotion and a cut price produced the desired result.

I am wondering precisely what you want or expect. According to traffic reports, there was a multi car pile up on the QE2 bridge yesterday afternoon that caused traffic chaos in the area. Jon Cook can be blamed for some things, but surely not that. In the circumstances, a delayed start seems entirely sensible in that it gave everyone a chance to actually see the meeting. Not ideal, but better than starting on time or abandoning the match altogether (I can just imagine how I would have felt spending hours locked up in a car to arrive and find that the meeting had been postponed). Given that the start was at 8.45, I would presume that it was pushing 10pm by the time that they ran heat 14. There was, by all accounts, a bad crash and extensive damage to the air fence. I suppose we could have had everyone standing around for however long it would have taken to fix it but it seems that there was a mutual agreement between both teams to end it there. Again, inherently sensible, particularly taking into account Adz comments above (and I doubt very much if he was the only one who thought that).

That's not necessarily true. For the Belle Vue v Wolverhampton meeting, there was a lot of promotion and a £10 entry. The crowd was over 2,500, by far the biggest of the season and probably double the normal attendance. Again, its not necessarily true. Isle of Wight's aggressive marketing strategy has produced impressive attendances over the summer and will probably mean that the track is safe for the future - and that's despite having poor on track results. You can argue that their crowds are seasonal (and you'd be right) but I can say with some certainty that their gates are four fold bigger than those of the previous promotion at the same time. The other thing is that you can do all the promotion you like but if the experience is poor, people won't come back. Isle of Wight have attracted a massive (and totally deserved) reputation for customer care that stands out against some of the surly, hostile, couldn't give a toss speedway management that exists out there and that's simply by treating a paying punter as someone who they desperately want to return. They have set a standard that others equally desperately need to copy. It says everything that the Island is probably 350 miles from my home but aside from local tracks I'll go there more than anywhere else.

Two factors in the Aces defeat : poor reserves and poor gating. 3 points against 12 tells its own story and shows just how important Bewley is to Belle Vue. To be fair to Aarnio, I thought he bust a gut in every race. The Aces were beaten off the grid time after time and you just can't let that happen at this level. For me, the meeting turned at heat 10 when the younger Bjerre and King got a 5-1 over the older Bjerre and Cook - largely thanks to King's brilliant blocking of the Aces riders. Rarely will you see a team ride of such quality. Having said all that, there was some fantastic racing and, for a neutral (or a Leicester fan), it would have been an excellent night out. A quick word for Tungate, because I don't think anyone rides NSS like he does. I don't like his crowing but he has a point. Its anything but the first time that Cook has been indifferent (poor would be harsh) at home this season and being beaten by riders who are nothing like world class on your home track does not augur well for a season at top level in 2018.

Quite The rule that basically anything is sufficient to allow for a facility is there for a reason, and its a sound one. There has to be a recognition that the NL is strictly part time, with most of the riders having other priorities such as family, work or education. The problem is Belle Vue - in Smith's case, because Bewley is travelling to Latvia and I would accept that - are abusing that rule as he has no other commitment, he just wants a rest. That's not good enough. In terms of the advertising of the event, I was helping the IOW promotion with a stand at a show on the Island. I was wearing my Belle Vue shirt, and told a number of people that the youngest and most exciting side in British Speedway would be there. IOW were told on Sunday morning that they wouldn't be. Aside from the fact that Smith most certainly should have been that's too late. The only thing is it didn't affect the attendance too much as far as I could see, because it was another good one By far and away the best. There are few who can teach them anything (and if others could they would unashamedly copy it) and many who could learn from them. Its actually pretty simple, basic and obvious stuff - treating the chap who pays his money at the turnstiles as someone you want to come back. Taking on board any criticism and giving him a reasonable response. We have all been there with the stupid, ignorant and crass promotions whose response to criticism is abuse, then a few weeks later complaining how poor their gates are without accepting any blame for that whatsoever. As to the team, they can quite reasonably point figures at the incompetent and cowardly management committee. They haven't been allowed a bloody thing (compare that to Hurry's ridiculous points reduction or Roynon's illegal average) and its easy to believe that that is at least in part down to jealousy given the (absolutely justified) credit and praise they have attracted from fans far and wide. You forgot about the curry, Robert I can't echo Bob's suggestion that you give them a try hard enough, just to see how a speedway team should be promoted. As I said on updates, don't eat before hand Definitely stronger. Both Williamson and Ayres are acknowledged track experts and Ayres was eligible for an RR ride. It is going to be a tough end of season for them but I suspect they will bounce back as hard as ever.

As far as I am concerned, "can't be bothered to drive all that way midweek"isnt a reason. The rule was almost certainly put there in recognition of the fact that the NL is largely amateur and contains young riders who may still be in education. I am sure that we can all accept that there will be absences for work or school that would come above speedway commitments. However, "taking a rest" is nothing more than an abuse of the rule that is absolutely no different to "cant be a*sed'which might also be seen to comply with that rule. It beggars belief just what the NL would be if this resson was subject to widespread use. What's even worse is that it affects IOW only. Belle Vue get two track specialist guests while the Warriors miss out on two of the sports most exciting young riders. Dan has said it is because he is travelling to Latvia; thats fair enough. I trust he won't be at Birmingham on Wednesday. quote name="Vincent Blackshadow" post="3016374" timestamp="1503343316"] A development league? Jon Armstrong, Paul Hurry. Definitely in need of developing. (Not picking on those two riders, btw, just two random riders I watched yesterday). Its acknowledged that having a senior rider in a team is not just acceptable, its a very good idea for thr experience thst they can pass on. Jon Armstrong is the best example, because I have heard nothing but praise and credit for his presence in the NL.

If they are its a very short one unless they aren't riding on Wednesday. You can see the reasoning behind the rule (and its a good one) but, typically, there are always those who abuse it and do it in a selfish, arrogant way that has their sole interests at heary and cares nothing for the impact on other clubs and their business. The fact that it is by far and away the best promoted club in the country who are on the receiving end - one who has pulled out all the stops in attempts to ensure that they survive and prosper - simply makes it all the harder to stomach. Dan has, to his huge credit, contacted IOW and said that he is not riding due to commitments at the weekend in Latvia.

I think there us a recognition that in the NL rider circumstances are different due to the levels of pay and age. As the rule says - work, education, holiday are accepted as reasons for absence. Simply withdrawing a rider for no reason whatsoever, however, is just wrong and I would say breaks both the intention and the spirit of that rule and indeed possibly the letter of it. What's worse is that Isle of Wight suffer the consequences of it here, not Belle Vue when it is the latter who are culpable. What if Isle of Wight had promoted this match on the basis that Bewley and Smith would be there - and in a limited way they did - only to find that they had cheated their customers through no fault of their own but through the selfish actions of another promotion ?

You're right that this meeting has been picked because it does least damage to Belle Vue. But what about Isle of Wight ? The appearance of Bewley and Smith was a major selling point for Tuesday but now they aren't going to be there for no reason other than it suits Belle Vue for them not to be. Lets hope Payne and Shuttleworth are, otherwise its 3 guests and rider replacement.

They certainly aren't riding, its only the reason I am uncertain of. I really don't see what that has to do with it. If you are unable to ride in all the fixtures, you shouldn't have committed to 3 leagues in the first place. In addition, why should Isle of Wight lose out - they could just as easily miss a home meeting. Finally, how on earth have guest facilities been allowed ?