Halifaxtiger

Belle Vue's biggest gate of the season - quite easily double the normal one - was against Wolverhampton in the league. Have a guess how much it was to go in that night ? Having said that, there is absolutely no guarantee that keeping that price every week would mean that the same crowd turned up. You only have to have been to Lakeside this season to see what happens when a team drops two divisions (particularly when there is a top flight club reasonably close to hand). However, it maybe that NL racing is sustainable whereas anything else is not. I think the point is that whatever you propose (and I still don't know what your proposals were or are) there are those who will be critical, right or wrong. Doubling up has been around for decades but the scale of it has got so ridiculously out of hand that even true diehard supporters - my mate Tigerite, as passionate a fan of his club as anyone, is a good example - have had enough. There is a club in speedway which has increased its gates four fold on the previous promotion and, aside from one meeting, increased attendances on every single occasion in 2017 when compared with 2016 despite the fact that it finished bottom of its league. According to its promoter, it broke even this year. It remains my opinion (and I am anything but alone) that that is the case because of the huge amount of effort it puts into attracting new fans and then ensuring that it gives them what they want and treats each one as a highly valued customer.

Can't see that happening

The problem with that is that it allows a promotion to make no effort whatsoever but hide behind the words that 'if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have speedway'. They can then basically serve up rubbish and, if the track closes down, blame the fans who don't go. That cuts no ice with me. There simply must be a duty on those that run tracks - in the same way as every business - to ensure that the product and the atmosphere is as good as it can be.

Then for my benefit - and in particular Jonathan's, because surely he has right of redress - I would ask that you do so again. It says everything that your view has already attracted adverse comment. Very fair point . If speedway fans cared only about the standard or riders, no-one would attend NL speedway. Yet they do, and in decent numbers. Wasn't it the case that when Birmingham dropped from EL to NL they attracted bigger attendances ? Doubling up is the single most important issue that needs addressing. Of my acquaintances across the country, even some of the most passionate have had enough of it and see it as a reason to walk away.

I am wondering what the difference between an 'opinionated response' and 'criticism' is. Probably not much. I think you are right that a forum is for comment, but the problem is that the overwhelming majority of posts simply say what speedway does not want or need without actually saying what it does and that highlights the BSPA's problem. How can they devise something realistic going forward to suit the paying speedway when all they are faced with are opinions that say that any proposals are rubbish ? How can speedway fans say they are being ignored when they don't actually come up with something that is workable ?

Its very easy to come on here and criticise a viewpoint regarding the future of speedway without actually stating what you would do to turn it around. Reading the contents of this thread that is precisely what most - if not all - have done. I don't agree with some of Jonathan's points but at least he has had the character to put something forward as a starting point.

And therein lies one of speedway's worst failings. Many still believe they are doing us a favour rather than the other way around (or at least it is mutual). That simply has to change. Absolutely Sometimes I think the sport is run entirely for their benefit (and I think they think so too). They have to get real. Speedway is not and, aside from the top boys, never has been a full time occupation. I don't like to keep banging on about Isle of Wight but they really have set a standard. A huge amount of effort goes into promoting the club, attracting sponsors and seeking revenue streams outside the ordinary. Then when people actually go, even more effort is put into creating exactly the right sort of experience and atmosphere on race nights because it isn't just about the racing. The attitude of the promotion is - for speedway - a truly remarkable one : they listen and respond without hostility or aggression. This has attracted credit from almost every person that attends (try and find an adverse comment anywhere) including from the likes of Bob C & Arnie G, two respected, long term and well travelled speedway fans and gates - based upon the previous promotion - are up spectacularly. This season, they broke even with a team that is likely to finish bottom of the NL. The promotion are not fools nor do they regard speedway as a plaything. Good money will not be chucked after bad, unreasonable demands are refused and the business has to pay for itself. So what we have is a promotion that puts everything into attracting and retaining fans and giving the best night out possible but at the same time remains entirely financially responsible. If that's not a blueprint for other clubs, I really don't know what is and if they can do it, why can't everyone else ?

Apparently Peter Collins wants 100 people to get in for free. That is at least a potential loss to Belle Vue of £1,700 per meeting or as much as £35,000 season. And that's just one track !! You are right that letting someone who doesn't go in for nothing won't cost a club a penny and I very much approve of such a policy as a means of attracting new fans (quite simply, in my experience it works to the degree needed). But you simply can't do that indefinitely for the same person - be that to fans or most ex riders - because you are giving your product away for nothing and gaining nothing from it. Letting Peter Collins or Chris Morton in free is one thing and I doubt if anyone would object in the slightest. Letting someone who rode 6 meetings for the Aces in is very much another, and in today's climate could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for that most priceless of commodities : a paying fan. I do believe that it is for individual clubs to determine their own entry policy, be that free or paying. Wrong example, maybe, but merely making the point that a club legend would almost certainly get in without paying.

Thanks Phil - as I said, I haven't read the article but it was implied in comments that that was the case. I suspect they'd let Bobby Charlton in for nothing, yes. We aren't just talking ex riders in Collins' case. We are talking about a rider that rode his entire career for one team and became World Champion whilst there, I don't know a single person that objects to the fact that Dougie Wyer gets in free at Sheffield, almost certainly because of the number of years that he rode there and his star status.

That's a little harsh, although your description - 'discount offer'- is bang on. There is a fine line here between who gets free entry and who doesn't and it seems to me that the WSRA are trying to come to some sort of compromise that satisfies all parties. After all, with some exceptions - Peter Collins definitely being one - you can't let every ex rider in for nothing.

I think it is bizarre, insulting and ridiculous that a rider of Peter Collins stature at Belle Vue (there is only Chris Morton that would match his record) is required to bring a paying adult with him to get in for nothing. On the other hand, he has no right whatsoever to dictate to a club that a condition of him being there is that a huge number of others also get in free. It is for each individual club to decide who receives free entry and who does not.

I'd be surprised if the Colts lost money given the gates they get..

I was about to say that there is no doubt that the track itself is one of the best shaped in British Speedway and I have, on occasion (and unfortunately years ago), seen some top quality racing there. I actually think its a lot simpler than that and would (yet again) point to Isle Of Wight as an example. Its just a matter of doing your best to attract and retain paying customers, and the first step is to treat them as someone who is doing you a favour (by giving you money) rather than the other way around.

The reason people don't go to Stoke Speedway is crap racing, dreadful tracks, an awful, rundown stadium, poor 'Dad's Army' teams and, in particular, a surly, hostile - even abusive - promotion. People have walked away in their dozens for that last reason alone. Why on earth should people pay for or support something like that ? If Stoke does close, then the blame for that will lie entirely with those that run it - not with the BSPA and not with those that stay away. In the last years of the previous promotion at Isle of Wight, gates were between 75 & 100 per week. This season, they were between 300 & 600. According to promoter Barry Bishop, they broke even in 2017. One of the main reasons for that was the way they treat the people at the turnstiles every week - quite simply, as someone they want to return and they have attracted almost universal credit and praise for it. This week, they were rightly nominated for the WSRA community club of the year award. Quite a contrast with Stoke, isn't it ?

Heat 8 at Belle Vue, Wednesday, NL Grand Final. 3 15 year olds and a 16 year old. One 15 year old scored a 5 ride paid maximum.

I am wondering why WP is so surprised (if he is surprised). Stoke couldn't fulfil their fixtures in 2013, 2014 or 2016 either.

I think to still win a tie after going down on aggregate, on an away track and against a team of Belle Vue's strength (and absolutely regardless of who was or wasn't riding) is a massive achievement, so all credit to the Fen Tigers .

The Colts made hard work of their win with Smith blowing an engine, Shuttleworth falling and Bewley binning it when miles ahead and causing a nasty crash. Otherwise, the top four was all unbeaten by the opposition. Bickley was the MOM for me. Compared with Bewley's bull in a china shop style, he is incredibly smooth and its difficult to believe that he is still just 15. A shout for Woodhull, too. His battling third place in the crucial heat 12 convinced me Belle Vue were going to win. Kemp was impressive but Eastbourne's top man was Bailey for me - he was the only one prepared (or able) to mix it with Smith and Bewley and his efforts in heats 13 & 15 meant that we had two races that would grace any league. Hard to accept he scored just 5 because he deserved more. It was indeed a fine advert for NL speedway. A big crowd, cracking racing and two teams of (mostly) young British riders going for it

What should not be forgotten is that it is likely that IOW will finish bottom of the NL having lost half of their home meetings. Such is the enthusiasm and the feel good factor about the club is that really doesn't seem to matter much, but there's no doubt that better on track performances will increase attendances still further. The furious attempts to promote the Speedway are like nothing I have ever seen before, in a holiday area or not and signs are that once people come they stay. There's no 'sod you then' attitude. Its all about listening, improving and giving the punter what they want. Its not rocket science or expensive, either. Some might be able to teach IOW one or two things (which they might well copy) but no-one can teach them a single thing about how to treat the paying fan or how to get people in, and they could teach a lot of others a great deal.

In the last season under the previous owners, Isle of Wight's average gates were under 100 per meeting. This season, out of the holiday weeks they have averaged 300 and in the holiday weeks 5-600. That's pretty much a five fold up Just proves what a determined, customer-focussed and enthusiastic promotion can do.

I'll take a little exception to what you have said here. Meetings should start on time but we can all forgive a one off because they happen in the best promoted clubs. To my knowledge, Workington haven't had another one like Saturday this season. While I think that the organisation and running of meetings could definitely be better, Workington's track is better than many, so you almost always see decent racing. Pricing is as cheap as any other Championship club. The team at the start of the season looked good to me, and Hoggy is as good as any and better than most. Overall, its definitely one of my favourite tracks. If all the above isn't enough, I could question precisely what the people of Workington want from their speedway club.

I think you are dead right here but I have never heard of this ban being applied before. Unless it was a new rule introduced for this season, its difficult to imagine that someone hasn't broken it in the past so you have to question whether it is being applied consistently (as Richard says above). The thing is the NL has been so rife with crooked rulings this season its pretty reasonable that some will think that the application on this occasion is not because it is there but because someone will gain from it.

I didn't understand that one but apparently there are those who complain if there is no parade. Damned if you, damned if you don't. The ironic thing about the delayed start is if Cookie hadn't crashed the meeting would have been completed in 90 minutes, easily the quickest I have seen at Derwent Park. I'd maintain that Workington have everything right to be a successful track. It was another cracking meeting last night and the team selection at the start of the season was a good one. You can't help but think, however, that it really needs someone to come in, get hold of meetings by the scruff of the neck and make sure that they run to time and without the annoying little issues that seem to come up far more often than they should. I really hope, though, that the Comets come to the tapes in 2018 because I have thoroughly enjoyed coming up this season. Don't doubt your word for a single second, but a burger van that doesn't do chips is nothing less than bizarre.

Tatum might be a busy man but missing the teams most important meeting of the season is p1ss poor.

Weather forecast looks very good for one final trip through the North Yorkshire Dales and across the Lake District. I think everyone is aware that the future of the Comets is in the balance so if ever there is a time to show that they are wanted and needed this is it.