Halifaxtiger

Home meetings on 3 &17 June, please. Rugby League fixtures are out already and Siddal play at Kells on 03 & Wath Brow on 17.

Very true. But I really don't see the relevance to the issue at hand. It seems to me there are two questions here. Firstly, should OAP's be allowed a concessionary rate at speedway's turnstiles, presumably based upon the pretext that their income is lower than someone of working age. Secondly, if not should the concessionary rate be scrapped. I don't wish to repeat myself again but evidence suggests that the average pensioner has more income (after housing costs) than a non pensioner. Based upon that, the concessionary rate is entirely unjustifiable, as you would effectively be allowing those with more disposable income to get in at a cheaper amount. However, my own view is that to scrap the discount would be detrimental to the overall amount of takings at the gate. Some pensioners genuinely could not afford an increase (even a modest one) and some simply wouldn't pay it even if they could.

I am certain that there will be people of pensionable age that have difficulty making ends meet, but the same could be said of those of working age. With the payment of superannuation pensions, however, some will never have had it so good. What you cannot do is advocate discounts on the basis of individuals - it simply has to be on an average of a grouping as a whole. As I have pointed out, there is some evidence to show that the average pensioner is actually better off than their working age equivalent. Why, then, should they received discounted admission ?? Having said that, I believe that this question is more about the effect that having (or not having) reductions has on speedway's finances rather than whether they are right or not. For myself, I think getting rid of them is likely to actually be detrimental to the amount of money taken at the gate.

I don't think they are all moaning. I am sure one or two might be motivated by nothing more than spite but for some - including me - it is a question of whether allowing a discount is justifiable given the parlous state of speedway's finances. Why should the average pensioner get a discount when their disposable income - according to at least one study - is higher than a non pensioner ? That's not an unreasonable point. You are right that it is a business decision and that alone. I'm not sure precisely what the discount is but, as an example, if one person currently paying £16 walks away, you have to ensure that four others pay £20 just to break even. That's a gamble that might well not be worth taking.

I am pretty sure that the bit I have highlighted is applicable equally to working families. The inference that all pensioners are in that situation is, I believe, highly inaccurate. A study completed in 2017 suggested that if housing costs are not taken into account the average pensioner is better off than the average non pensioner (for want of a better term). This takes very much into account the fact that those of pensionable age are less likely to have housing costs than those of working age. Are pensioners better off than people of working age? - Full Fact This a more recent headline: Pensioners will be better off than workers by 2024 (telegraph.co.uk) This refers to disposable income and while I can't see the text the header is clear. I'd say, then, that the suggestion that pensioners are less likely to able to afford entry costs and therefore should receive a discount as a result is questionable at best. Having said that, your second paragraph is absolutely bang on. Doing away with the discount, I suspect, will lose more than it gains and surely that has to be the bottom line.

I supported IOW's decision to pull out of the NDL and I support it now. I would, however, very much like to see them rejoin. While all of what you have said is true regarding expenses and regulations, I don't think that IOW had an issue with any of it. The problem was that the members of the NDL were not allowed to make their own rules but had no say in regulations - principally a points limit - that were forced on them to their detriment and to the benefit of higher clubs who had no financial involvement in the NDL whatsoever. Had that not happened, I am firmly convinced that they would still be part of the BSPA fold. Selfishness, stupidity and incompetence therefore cost British Speedway its most innovative, forward thinking and customer focussed club, although I am certainly aware of at least one other occasion when the Warriors promotion were deeply unhappy about the way they were treated. As it is - and despite attempts to undermine their operation and sniping from some -they are doing pretty well. 2021 was hugely successful on and off track and, if 2022 did not hit the same heights, the report I got was that attendances were 'good'. For a club like Mildenhall, struggling to cope with the present set up, this surely could be an option.

Certainly concur with your view about Mildenhall and credit to the promotion for making the position clear. In my experience, most meetings are completed in less than 2 hours and that certainly has to be a target for all clubs. Anything longer than that is just too much and a good start would be doing away with the absolutely unnecessary interval that some clubs still insist on. How many of us have groaned with disappointment on a freezing cold night when a match is interrupted by having one? Personally speaking, I have never had any difficulty with a meeting that takes less than 90 minutes (admittedly I haven't been to many). You get the same amount of entertainment, after all. Perhaps Mildenhall could do an Isle of Wight (running only at peak times (and therefore no 'fractured season') and with substantially reduced expenses). The Warriors seem to be doing very well indeed and are clearly in no hurry to return to the NDL.

I'm not sure that is the reason. For a start, Mildenhall has had stock car racing for years. More importantly, the stock cars do not run every week (usually once a fortnight) and the speedway certainly used to attempt to run on the Sundays when there had not been racing the previous night, thus giving ample time for track preparation ((i have seen the track on a Sunday morning after a Saturday stocks meeting and it looks like there has been a bombing raid). To be fair, I haven't been for a while but there did seem to be an issue with the track last season at least, with a number of meetings subject to multiple accidents and lengthy delays. Whatever the case, I really hope this can be pulled round. I have a lot of happy memories of Mildenhall, some good friends there and you won't get a more devoted speedway fan than Phil Kirk.

Brilliant to see the Comets back (always one of my favourite places to visit) and plan is for a couple of trips up next season (my local RL club Siddal have away matches at Kells (Whitehaven) and Wath Brow Hornets (Cleator Moor) so with a bit of luck I'll be able to do both on the same day). Had a bit of a look at the track a few weeks ago and it looks first class.

The loss of any club from the NDL is to be deeply regretted (as indeed it would be in either of the upper leagues). Worse still is that that club is still operating (and doing very nicely indeed) and worse than that is that it is, as I said before, by far and way the most customer focussed and innovative of them all. As an example, the latest BSPL announcement is a ladies championship. Isle of Wight did it this year. In past seasons, they have pioneered free entry for children, a meeting where all riders used the same engine and discounts for members of the services. As someone who has been to every track in British Speedway in the last 5 seasons, no one else comes even close. Workington will be in the NDL. Eastbourne, I am informed, are more likely to be in the Championship. It seems you -rightly - welcome other clubs into the NDL but don't really care that Isle of Wight were lost. Simple truth is - and I doubt if anyone would deny this - that the NDL would be better with the Warriors in it. Whether the Warriors would be better off in the NDL is very much a moot point.

Teams in tourist areas - such as Isle of Wight - attract two kinds of paying spectators. Firstly, there is the holiday maker who is down for a couple of weeks and doesn't care that much what they see providing it is good value for money. Secondly, there is the (reasonably) local fan who usually wants to see a competitive team in a competitive league, in the same way that someone following any sport would. When Isle of Wight dropped out of the NDL, the former became more important than the latter. To me, that means that they have to offer a slightly different format to the usual league meetings but that doesn't mean for one second that it won't be entertaining, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean it won't work. Certainly based upon the attendances that Isle of Wight have attracted over the last two seasons it has actually been more successful than running NDL meetings alone. Isle of Wight were against the 2021points reduction which was imposed on the NDL without the constituent clubs having any say in the matter. That's because had they been allowed to vote - as they undoubtedly should - the low points limit would have been rejected. While the standard of NDL racing has improved this season, that cannot be said about 2021, and it says everything that the points limit for 2022 has gone right back up again (which suggests that 2021 was a mistake). For me, the NDL are missing Isle of Wight more than the Isle of Wight are missing the NDL. They were - and remain - by far and away the most customer focussed promotion in British Speedway and while I thoroughly supported Barry Bishop's decision to pull out of British Speedway I regard as a nothing less than a tragedy that through sheer stupidity and selfishness they were forced to do so.

Very hard to disagree with that The only thing is that for every person who - to quote cityrebel, because he's right - 'is always ...... waiting to have a dig' there is also someone who regards any form of criticism - no matter how constructive, reasonable, genuine or justifiable - as spiteful, vindictive malice motivated by a grudge or vindictiveness and to be met with denial, hostility, aggression and even abuse. In a significant number of cases on here, that simply isn't true.

i think completely ignoring 'keyboard warriors' is a major mistake. Truth is, there are an awful lot of people on this forum who love the sport and sincerely only wish the best for it. That, however, does not exclude them for being critical - indeed, on many occasions, it is good that they are. The BSPL and its members are hardly paragons of competence and honesty - they have, on many occasions, acted stupidly, selfishly, and with utter contempt (and even abuse) towards those who turn up every week to pay their entrance fees. It is right that they are brought to book for their actions, and one of the reasons that many of them despise the BSF is because certain members hit them very hard with the truth as they see it. 'Paranoid defensive ramblings' are a very good description of - on the rare occasion someone deigns to reply - what we get, usually tinged with hostility and aggression. Isle of Wight's Barry Bishop is one of the few who does regularly engage and what we see is a reasoned, measured response to our comments. The number of likes his posts receive reflect just how much his contribution is valued. You're absolutely correct that 'whatever you do someone won't like what you do and will criticise'. Some do so out of spite, malice and the settling of perceived scores. Others - including yourself - do so for what they think is right, even if they maybe mistaken (not that you are here). Its a question, then, of sorting the wheat from the chaff and that is something I have mentioned to the small numbers of people I know involved in running the sport and competing in it. The BSF can be a very significant source of customer feedback and knowledge if the comments are considered with a keen eye.

In 2012 there were 28 stand alone tracks. Accepting that in 2022 both Birmingham and Workington will be running and, pushing it a bit, that Eastbourne would be. Taking into account Isle of Wight (who operate outside of the BSPL) - that's 21. Of those no longer operating 5 (Lakeside, Stoke, Dudley, Swindon and Coventry) were due to the loss of the stadiums (this may also apply to Kent). Rye House, Somerset & Buxton closed for financial reasons, although in Somerset's case that was more to do with the loss of revenue from their club house. While I wouldn't suggest that speedway's finances are anything but parlous, this suggests that the reason for the loss of teams is at least as much about an inability to have somewhere to race than people not being prepared to invest (with Workington and Oxford coming back, clearly they are). According to this article, the Premier League lost £2.74bn in 10 years: Explained: The ‘terrible’ state of Premier League clubs’ finances – The Athletic According to this article, the owners of Everton, Aston Villa, Chelsea, Brighton and Fulham put well over £1bn into their clubs in a 5 year period prior to 2020: Premier League owners and how much they invested or 'earned' from their clubs | Sportslens.com Even allowing for the difference between profile, revenue, turnover, sponsorship and attendances, these are extraordinary figures that make speedway's £100k losses look like peanuts but what they clearly show is - as I suggested earlier - that sports clubs may be run like businesses but they are often little less than a personal hobby (even a cursory viewing of the internet suggest that both rugby codes are no different). To really prove my point, my suspicion is that if a Birmingham supporter came up on the national lottery this weekend the future of the club would be assured, regardless of the fact that his chances of making money would be nigh on zero. An even better example would be when Mildenhall and Isle of Wight were shareholder owned; year on year, people put money in in the almost certain knowledge that they would lose it (as a Mildenhall shareholder myself, I did so). It is difficult to argue with your point that it is 'daft...to throw money at a loss making enterprise'. Yet in the case of ownership of sports teams, that is precisely what people do.

I'm not sure that's totally true, Humph. Birmingham's losses last season were awful, yet even now there is a consortium attempting to take over. Eastbourne closed for financial reasons, yet they will apparently be back in 2023. Workington - who also lost a shed load in their last few years - are planning to be ready for 2022 and there clearly wasn't a queue for Derby County. I also think you have to consider that funding a speedway track is likely to be an awful lot less expensive than paying for a football team, so you don't need quite so much cash. In recent years. huge amounts have been poured into places like Belle Vue and Glasgow, while my suspicion is that tracks like Scunthorpe and King's Lynn use other activities at their stadiums to subsidise speedway to a degree. Its very difficult to disagree that speedway should be run in a sustainable way, but the question must be asked as to whether running based solely upon income generated is a realistic possibility for most teams.

It maybe that you can see something I can't but only balance sheets are on company house, not profit/loss. The only thing I can work out is that Belle Vue liabilities are increasing by pushing £100k per season. Speedway is no different to other sports in that although clubs are run as businesses there is very often no expectation of making money and they are, as such, a personal hobby for a wealthy individual (or individuals). As an example, in 2018/19 Ipswich Town made a loss of £3m pre tax (4 championship clubs were in the black, 16 in the red, with only 1 lower than Ipswich). Their average gate was just short of 18,000. If Belle Vue get 1,200, then their loss by the same ratio should be £200k when it is probably half that. The problem comes, then, not when a loss is made but when that loss is unsustainable either because the owner can't afford the amount concerned or because he can but is unwilling to do so. What I think is true is that clubs have closed not because they are losing money, but because they are losing too much(which, to be fair, isn't much different to what you have suggested). I agree about Birmingham; it has a very chequered past and will take a real optimist with deep pockets to get involved. However, perhaps to prove my point that speedway will carry on there is also a new track being built at Workington with the possibility of NDL racing next season.

Because in reality there is no credible alternative for a league structure. Clubs have very little choice but to stay put, as bad as it maybe. However, one club has broken away and done so very successfully, something that will have been noted by the others.

Dead right I am a big fan of Adrian Smith but while what he is saying would definitely be a step in the right direction it would be most optimistic to believe it would be a solution to speedway's problems. I should say I don't believe speedway is in terminal decline - the fact that Oxford are re-opening this season after a considerable absence and that there are those trying to keep Birmingham open suggests that individuals will always appear to keep it going. Sick ward, definitely, but not terminal. I also suspect that while Belle Vue are losing money it is not on the scale you suggest. Even the pockets of Messrs Rice and Southwell aren't deep enough to cope with those sort of losses even if they were prepared to accept them.

Mason was certainly getting a lot less than 1,000 at the start of 2021 - 4-600 I was told. Because achieving a break even figure is aiming high. Every club sees a break even as a minimum achievement - which it reasonably has to be, although some can afford sustainable losses - and certainly does not view that as an end game.

Even being around for 3 years doesn't guarantee you a vote or even a say in relation to an issue that directly and significantly affects your club. Ask Isle of Wight and Mildenhall about that one.

I must admit I am struggling to understand how you believe that three teams have not folded during 2021. I can certainly accept that there are recognisable reasons why that was the case, but it clearly happened. The same could be said of Rye House, Lakeside, Buxton, Coventry and virtually every other track lost in the past few years. Eastbourne was definitely down to mismanagement - and from what I heard worse than that - but they did not finish the season. It is very likely indeed that they will return, but that is substantially due to the exceptional nature of the ownership of the stadium. From the same source, I am told that the Dugard family do not actually charge the speedway promotion rent but merely reimbursement of match day costs - which reflects their long term and deeply committed approach to the sport. Kent does seem to be about the change of stadium owners - although Len Silver did indicate other reasons for pulling out - given that the former owner Roger Cearns was speedway co-promoter. It certainly seems to me that if there was a viable and profitable future for speedway there a prospective promoter would be found and the new landlords would welcome the continuance of racing at Central Park but it seems no-one has come forward and from comments on here ARC look to be dead against it. I'll hold my breath on Birmingham. It was a huge success on opening but has a very chequered history since, with David Mason (after suffering truly frightening losses) being just one of a number of promoters who have walked away. That's something that any potential new promoter will have to consider before taking it on. Finally, I'd point out that only as a result of a last minute intervention were Newcastle saved, Rob Grant having publicly stated that they were to close. At present, there are 17 stand alone clubs committed to running in BSPL competition in 2022. 10 years ago, there were 28.

The huge difference between Eastbourne and Kent and Birmingham is that the landlords want speedway at their stadium and not just as a revenue stream. The Dugard family have been involved in the sport for decades and that runs deep.

In a year when 3 championship clubs have folded and one came very close to doing so and criticism of the treatment of the NDL has at times been scathing, that is hard to accept. If they are motivated by 'self interest' then the plight of the sport as a whole may not matter much and there are those who would far sooner state that everything is fine when - clearly - it isn't than admit they have got it seriously wrong. In doing so, they fool themselves only.

I know that Isle of Wight won community club of the year (for the third time running).

When every British rider in the Premiership and Championship this season plus our two GP representatives started in the third tier of the sport, it was complete nonsense to suggest that the NDL needed to 'get back to its roots'. If truth were told, it was already there. Whatever the make up of the league it was admirably and extremely successfully doing one of the jobs for which it was created. I think its absolutely clear now - although as you rightly say many do not need the benefit of hindsight - that the decision to cut the points limit was an extremely poor and damaging one provoked by nothing more than the self interest of the top two divisions.