Halifaxtiger

Since when did a sports broadcaster report on changes to speedway's national squad ? Arnie above mentioned paid attendances, and I referred to the comparison between the two. According to the Surrey CC website, entry to Surrey Women (not the Stars) who play in Division 1 of the County Championship is free. Accepting that all of the remainder are the same, my figures stand. Taking FF's figures as accurate, Belle Vue alone drew bigger gates than the whole of the women's super league in 2017. At the play off final in 2016, Belle Vue attracted an attendance of about 3,500, and that's for one match at 5 times the cost. Speaking of cost, the super league at Surrey is £5, half the price of the cheapest speedway. Clearly that is of the utmost importance in attracting spectators. Where professionalism of the sport is concerned, it would be hard to find one less professional than speedway, with its corruption, cheating, one upmanship and rule bending. In terms of the number of professional participants, however, I would guess that all riders at Championship or Premiership level are professional, at least during the season. That's 90 compared to 19. Speedway itself has attracted no TV coverage, Tai Woffinden has. I certainly don't recall Poole's Premiership win being remarked on, nor Mildenhall's (almost) perfect season.But for Tai's third championship win, speedway would not have been mentioned at all and the fact it has is incidental to that. So, in terms of paid attendance figures, professional competitors, entry charging teams (and I'd very much accept that speedway is, compared to almost all non motor sports, very much down on actual competitors for obvious reasons) is it still 3-1 ?

I think that's just about right for league speedway, Arnie, even if we are guessing for weekly attendances. 28 teams, at say 14 meetings and 500 attendance is just under 200,000. That's 10 times bigger than women's cricket.

Speedway's reluctance to publish attendance figures makes it difficult but.... There are 28 speedway teams in Britain. Accepting that they ride once a week over the season (which in reality they should) if each attracts an average gate of 400, then that's just over 11,000 people per week. Even if those figures are warped, if half the teams ride and the average gate is 300, that's still over 4,000 a week so speedway attracts the same number of spectators in just over a month that women's cricket attracts in a season. Its entirely possible that Belle Vue alone (Aces & Colts) pull in more than 20,000 in a season. Lords cricket ground holds 30,000. Cardiff gets about 40,000 for a meeting that isn't anywhere near as big as a world final. The only reason that coverage of women's cricket (and I have no issue with that sport, its viewers or players at all) annoys me is that speedway is - based upon attendance figures, the professionalism of the sport, the number of competing teams etc - easily bigger and that is nowhere near debatable. What they have on their side - as some have pointed out - is the massive advantage of political correctness and the BBC mention the male version and ignore the female one at their peril. I would certainly accept the bias of speedway fans and that the 'tunnel visioned' do exist, but here - and taking into account the above factors - a neutral (and possibly even someone biased towards women's cricket) would agree that speedway is most definitely the poor relation. Its little wonder, then, that speedway fans have a bit of a chip where this is concerned. All credit to the BBC for some recognition and I thought both the interviewer and interviewed came across very well. The fact that it took them almost a week to do it is, however, relevant. My suspicion is the captain of the woman's cricket team would have been interviewed the same day had they won something as big. I really don't understand - even allowing for the size of the sport and my undoubted bias - that someone who finishes 5th in the Formula 1 World Championship is worthy of a bigger mention and has achieved more than someone who has won his world title 3 times (also in one of the most competitive fields the sport has had) and, as we have agreed, is the greatest Britain has ever known. I doubt very much that Woffinden will win the BBC award - and its entirely possible that steps will be taken to ensure that he does not - but he most definitely deserves a nomination and I think that most speedway fans would be very happy with that.

Once again the usual suspects stick the boot into Laurence Rogers. In doing so, they show just how subjective and prejudiced their views are. As can clearly be seen from those - including me - that were there, this meeting was dreadful for one reason and one reason only - the state of the track. That was, by any standards, bloody awful - rutted, bumpy, greasy and patchy. Its why the riders spent more time battling with the surface than each other. That, of course, was entirely the responsibility of Leicester Speedway and completely out of Rogers' control. As a further point to those who choose to blame him for everything, he also wasn't responsible for the lousy weather, rider absences or the food (which looked positively revolting). While I would admit that the programme wasn't good, aside from that the organisation - at least as far as I could see - was pretty decent (unnecessary interval apart). Every heat and rider was sponsored, as was the meeting. It began on time and ended in reasonable time. All riders received a memento of the occasion and body colours (also sponsored) were auctioned for the SRBF. I'd never pretend to be unbiased where Laurence is concerned. But to blame him for how poor this meeting was is totally wrong.

Speedway, in comparison with many other sports, isn't significant. But yet again you are missing - or, more likely, avoiding - the point. Given the title of this thread, if Steve & I are suffering from paranoia so are a lot of others. Clearly, there is a belief within speedway circles that it does not get the coverage from the BBC it deserves in comparison with other minority sports (and that's the point) and I think that belief is well founded (at least, perhaps, until very recently). Only the other morning, the headline report on 5live was the number of uncapped players called up for the England women's cricket squad. I don't think there is a speedway fan who believes that it should attract the same attention as highly publicised sports such as boxing, motor racing or tennis. Women's cricket, on the other hand, is a very different matter. Womens' cricket at the top flight is semi professional and has just 6 teams. In total last season 20,000 people watched all matches. Speedway (and discounting the NL) has 18, and is largely fully professional. It would attract 20,000 fans over two weeks. As such this isn't a matter of speedway fans as a collective being paranoid or having chips on their shoulder. Its a matter of them asking for fairness and coverage not being determined by political correctness (as Mike bv has stated). As you have so rightly said : 'Minority sports have been recognised when the achievement has been so great that it deserves recognition'. Woffinden can reasonably claim to be the greatest British speedway rider of all time - something that very few indeed (including Hamilton, Joshua, & Murray) can claim within their own sport. Wouldn't you agree that that would mean that he would fall within the above category ?

Without being unduly pessimistic, the issues around the Comets finances are well known and there was no guarantee whatsoever that they would run this season, never mind next. Why build a stadium incorporating a speedway track when there maybe no speedway team to use it ?

I think it depends where the track is. If there are a lot of people who are only temporarily in the area, then its worth it.

Not that you're biased. And that truly is one of the most ignorant and stupid statements I have ever read on here.

Leicester doesn't get any better, does it ? I think riders battled with the track more than each other.

Steve might have misplaced his comparisons here, but he's still right. His point is that other minority sports get places on the Sports Personality of the Year, so there's no reason why speedway shouldn't (especially given Woffinden's likely unprecedented third world title). Its not a question of minority sport, its a question of whether that sport fits (for whatever reason) with the BBC. That's simply got to be wrong.

Like others, I nearly gave this one a miss given the result the preceding night and came because it would not have been fair on my driver. I am bloody glad that I did A cracking meeting with everything that is good about speedway thrown in - some brilliant racing, a fantastic come back, a little controversy, a last heat decider and all sorted in less than 90 minutes. Great stuff I am not sure what happened to the Monarchs but the Comets were clearly fired up, possibly stung by the - not unfair - criticism from the night before. A superb team performance, and while no-one really deserves to be singled out a mention (again) for Kyle Bickley. Huge improvement from the youngster. A mention, too, for Hoggy. I know I am biased here, but his efforts to whip up the home crowd and get them behind the team might just have made the difference between winning and losing. Sadly, this was probably my last trip to the Wild West this season due to holiday commitments. I have seen about half of the Comets home fixtures, and its been a ball. With two finals and a semi final guaranteed, it will be a huge disappointment and a major anti climax if they don't win something and there's no doubt that Laura, Steve, Jacko and some furiously loyal fans deserve it (especially after all the crap they have had thrown their way). Whatever the case - and I'll be cheering them on from afar and most definitely will not be betting against them - its pretty fair to say that this is the Comets best season since Ian Thomas introduced the sport to the town in 1970.

Very slightly unfair here. I thought the track was prepared for the home side (I still have dust everywhere now) but its far from unheard of that racing will get better as a meeting progresses. Definitely happens at our best track, Belle Vue, and I seem to recall Jensen hitting Riss as early as heat 6. To highlight the difficulties Pickering and Worrall had in passing Bickley as a sign of the track conditions does not do justice to just how improved the Workington reserve is. The very fact that he outgated them in the first place - something that would have been unthinkable a couple of months ago - is evidence of how much he has come on, as was his win in heat 2 and a crucial third place in heat 14. According to my spy at the tapes, Stuart Wilson had had enough of riders messing about at the starts and one of the clerk of the course calls was a warning to pack it in or else. Wells can have no-one to blame but himself given that he was facing the wrong way at the time, although my understanding is that if he had not turned round it could have been Klindt that would have got the exclusion light.

) That is to a point true. I say to a point because results affect only home supporters (and I seem to remember there being an old saying 'happiness is 40-38' ) not those who just go for the speedway (and at Scunthorpe that's a fair few). But you seem - and I reiterate seem - to be saying is that the quality of the speedway is irrelevant simply because Belle Vue isn't packed every week, or because Scunthorpe's gates are poor. What I am saying - and I am certain of this - is that the gates at both tracks would be worse if the racing isn't as good as it is. As such, the quality of the speedway does affect attendances. Not perhaps to the extent that some people might believe, but it does.

Is it me, Phil, or do these two statements contradict each other ?

It does make a difference. Its not the be all and end all, but it does Belle Vue might not be packed out but I have no doubt that it draws more people than it would if the racing was rubbish. Scunthorpe is a better example. Poor gates, but doesn't bear thinking about what they would be if the speedway wasn't as good as it is.

Me too, although that's what I have heard. Go up or go down, basically. Most of the existing NL clubs cannot afford to do either.

I am not quite sure how you can say that with Kemp, Bebee, Marson, Jenkins, Rowe, Bickley, Dicken, Woodhull, Pavitt, Flint, Atkins, Edwards, Brennan etc riding in it. All of these are in their first or second season at that level. Even the likes of Bowtell, Shanes, Morley, Hume, Bacon, Wood, Verge, Stoneman, Bailey, Smith, Mountain and Perks could be given the tag of developing. There are older riders in the league, but Jon Armstrong's reputation as a mentor is well known and of significant benefit - ask anyone. The league has to come to a balance between developing riders and ensuring that the product is attractive to the public, because a team full of novices most certainly is not - that's nothing more than a glorified training session. I think for the most part the NL hits it bang on.

Its a view that might well be right...…………..until the clubs decide that they can't afford to run at either a higher or lower level and start pulling out. That might change the position. The worst part is that the NL should be allowed to decide its own destiny as a collective, not have some arbitrary decision forced upon them. The only consolation is that I heard rumours at the back end of 2017 that the points limit would be very low, and it simply didn't materialise.

Historically, challenge matches against select sides almost always attract lower attendances (unless there is something special or unusual on offer). Looking at the teams last week, its little wonder the crowd was poor. Mark Philips 'rock and hard place' description is just about spot on. My suspicion is that Isle of Wight and Plymouth will not be the only ones to consider their entire future if the points limit is devalued significantly. I suspect Mildenhall, Kent, Birmingham, Eastbourne, Coventry (if they continue) and possibly Stoke would not want that. Even Belle Vue, who attract decent attendances for Colts meetings, would be wary of downgrading the standard to a substantial degree. That was shown last season when a majority of clubs wanted an increase in the points limit but due to some technicality it never came to pass. Its entirely possible that all of the above teams could not go into the Championship without huge financial risk yet they recognise that their fans do not wish to see a glorified training session. I can only trust that sanity prevails and the NL is allowed to go the way it wishes rather than being forced into a position which might well endanger the existence of its members.

It might not look like it but Mildenhall have just one rider who has done that - Drew Kemp. Matt Marson and Sam Bebee are up, but only by about a point and a half - good, but hardly a mockery. Aside from Kemp, the real improver has been Ryan Kinsley - up by over 3 points - and he's been around for a number of seasons. How many of us saw that one coming ?

Sadly, I think you are absolutely right and it exposes the programme for the fit up it is. The fact that speedway is a minority sport is utterly irrelevant - or at least it should be. The fact of the matter is that if Woffinden does win again - and that looks very likely - he can reasonably be called the greatest British speedway rider of all time. Personally, it doesn't matter what sport -within reason - you are in, that's worthy of a nomination. I'd also point out that a couple of years ago a yachtsman was nominated. To my knowledge, he wasn't even competing at the time. In addition - and to use Steve's example - I wouldn't back against a woman cricketer being selected. I somehow doubt that she would be seen as one of the country's best. Steve is absolutely right. Its not a question of how good you are, what records you have broken or titles won. Its a matter of whether your face (or more accurately your sport) fits, which makes the programme a sham.

The accident - from where I was standing and I had a very good view - most certainly was not Dan Bewley's fault. Then again, neither was it Kyle Newman's. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Newman's injury should be 'forgotten about'. But, in scale and severity, there is simply no comparison with what Bewley suffered. Bewley is still in a wheelchair and will be for some time to come. His estimated recovery time (at least to ride again) is 6 months. Someone said to me the other day that he didn't know it was possible to break a femur in 5 places. It cannot be the case that every injury suffered by a rider will be of the kind that will generate substantial fund rising activities. However, it is difficult to imagine that the appalling injuries suffered by one of British Speedway's most outstanding young riders would not be one of them.

I am waiting to see what happens if Woffinden wins a third world title. If he does, he can rightly claim to be the greatest British speedway rider of all time. I wonder if he will get a place in the Sports Personality of the Year ?

With racing like that and getting home before 10pm its looking more likely

Not crazy at all. In my view, absolutely bang on. It simply wasn't anywhere near as good watching the recording as it was being at the track (although the fact that I was aware of what happened probably made a difference) .