Halifaxtiger

Can't argue with the comments about the stadium or the supporters, but otherwise I think you are being very unfair indeed and your post smacks of the snobbery that PL supporters object so much to when it is dished out by EL fans yet hand it out themselves where the NL is concerned. Its the easiest thing in the world to tell others how to spend their money when you are taking no financial risk yourself. There are many who have miracle cures to raise money or supporter levels but I have never met one yet who will put forward a single penny of their own money to achieve that. The simple fact is the supporter base at Stoke isn't big and Dave Tattum does not have a bottomless pit of funds to use on riders or promotion. He's faced with three choices : sell up, close the track or cut costs. Potential buyers for speedway tracks aren't exactly queueing up - Weymouth couldn't be sold for £1 - so he has definitely taken the next best option. The fact is the standard of entertainment at Stoke will remain the same because the level makes no difference to the quality of the racing. To all intents and purposes, little will change other than the fact that the reduced costs might allow the Potters to put out a team capable of challenging for the league. Your highlighted remark is arrogant. Read the distraught comments on the Weymouth for sale thread and you will see why I think that.Speaking personally, I was absolutely delighted when I found that Mildenhall would continue after 2008 because I still had a team to support and I had far more reason to be gutted when it closed last season.

I think this might just be true I think its clear that Bournemouth will pull out, but Mildenhall, Weymouth & Bristol look more positive than before and I got told at Plymouth that Bodmin have found a new site. In addition, I have also heard a rumour that the success of Dudley might prompt others to go the same way. Fingers crossed.

You're a better man than me, then. Personally, if my team had been the best in the league and had then lost out on the league title due to what seems to me to be nothing less than poor organisation, I'd have been bloody furious.

I don't think that many of us like the play offs, Malcolm, as I suspect that most fans believe that the league winners should be champions. Having said that, I fully accept the play off system for precisely the reasons you have stated, in particular the increased gates that the matches create. What is undoubtedly true is that the abandonment of the 4TT, the initial postponement of the NLRC and its reinstatement (and I don't rule out the angry reaction of fans on here as a possible reason for that reinstatement) and the fact the final was reduced to one leg does absolutely nothing for the credibility of the NL and indeed will make it a matter for ridicule. You may have more information than I have but from my point of view that looks like poor organisation and that alone.That is a huge shame given the fact that I believe that the competition itself was a qualified success, with the reintroduction of Dudley, several challengers for the title and, in particular, the development of a large number of young British riders. I cannot help but wonder whether you would have expressed the same thoughts if Newport had won on Friday and todays match been called off, and the team that I believe deserve the title (ie Buxton)had to have been content with runners up. Whichever way this is looked at, it diminishes their success and that cannot be allowed to happen again.

Just to correct you slightly - the NDL has not been a joke as there has been some terrific speedway, several championship challenging sides, the hugely successful re-emergence of the Heathens and a large number of young British riders making substantial progress. The management of the league as a whole has however been riven with inconsistency, the bending of rules and the shambolic farce over the staging of the NLRC and gives the impression that the BSPA regard the NDL as a very poor relation indeed. You are dead right on the date that rules should be set (it is very difficult to understand why they are done at any other time)and that those who put time and money into the sport at this level have very good grounds to feel disillusioned. The only good point is that the weather forecast for this meeting has changed (quite remarkably) from heavy rain to sunny.I don't rule out a change back, though

Indeed And all those who have been banned or have stayed away to go along. This is not about Phil Bartlett any more, its about Weymouth Speedway and the possibility of its continued existence. Its a terrific little set up down there and fingers crossed that somrthing comes up.

Bournemouth are 99% certain to close, Plymouth have applied to go PL (although whether they are accepted is anyones guess - I have never heard a good word about their promotion). An informed source told me that the closure of Bournemouth is more about will than money. I remain optimistic about Mildenhall for the simple reason that it is in the stadium owners interests to have speedway there, especially if he can get a few hard core fans to run it for him. I think his rental demands (£1,300pw) are totally unrealistic given the current economic situation but, bearing in mind that he receives the lucrative profits from the catering and bar at the track, it is better to have it open and make £200 pw than shut and nothing. All that is dependant upon the court case regarding the closure of the stadium, but I simply refuse to accept that the will of a few individuals who moved in next to the place will prevail over that of the large numbers (for stock cares if not speedway)who regularly attend. I think Weymouth will run. Gary May deserves a great deal of credit for coming forward to make a bid and seems to accept that the track will run at a loss, although I suspect gates will increase simply because the previous promotion are no longer involved. The asking price of £40k is still way too high, because you get virtually nothing for it. The chances of another Dudley are slim. League entry(in a different league), a very attractive team, a stadium close to the place and a side that has not been out of action for that long all count in their favour and I am not sure that there is anywhere else like that. At the risk of jumping the gun, there was a lot of talk when I was down at Plymouth recently about a prospective new track in Cornwall. One thing I would like to see is northern clubs banding together to put a side in, maybe running at Redcar.

I am not the first one to say that this is a superb post and sums up precisely how those who can look at this subject objectively feel. Well said indeed I was about to say that leaving a rider out to gain an advantage in a big meeting might easily be regarded as an act of managerial genius but you have said it for me. Again, you're dead right. Coventry's performance at Poole was superb and it was inspired by their captain who gave one of the bravest and most influential displays I have ever seen on a speedway track. Quite simply, they deserved it. Matt Ford's comments come across as those of a bad loser who knew for certain that his powerhouse side were going to sweep everything before it,can't come to terms with the fact that they didn't and is looking for excuses why that was the case other than on his own doorstep. As many others have said, get over it. Alun Rossiter's, on the other hand, seem to be restrained and fair.

I'd say that a small donation would be very reasonable, John, but its not going to happen. According to the texter at the Belle Vue match the crowd was 'Crowd is pretty poor which is a shame', despite low entry prices and being billed as a tribute to Kelly Moran. The match at Ipswich featured Danny King, Ryan Fisher, Ricky Wells, Kozza Smith amongst others so it was hardly NL standard. I can't see anything to suggest what the gate was like and it would be interesting to find out. My experience is that perhaps with exception of the PL 4's neutral venues don't work and I'd say holding a meeting at a neutral venue, with a far lower standard of rider mid week and a huge distance away from most NL circuits would be asking for a financial disaster. Read more: http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=inter&action=display&thread=7152&page=1#ixzz12OzkZWTJ Either (although as a personal preference I'd say Wolverhampton). Dudley have some of the biggest gates in British Speedway and if it could be arranged for a weekend I suspect many would travel. The question is why have the BSPA cancelled this meeting ? I think it is very easy to blame them when at this stage I can't see any other reason than fixture congestion at Rye House. Would be very interesting to find out the exact cause. 'Shambles' is a very good description indeed.

Its sensible, John, but its impractical. For a start, there's no way the BSPA would subsidise a meeting. Secondly, the gate wouldn't be down at Belle Vue (or maybe even Ipswich), it would be practically non existent. You only have to read some of the posts on here to see the contempt that some EL fans have for the PL, never mind the NL, so they just wouldn't go. Allied to the fact that only Buxton is within 100 miles of Belle Vue supporters just aren't going to travel that far. It would have to be a weekend and to my mind the best neutral place would be Swindon. Otherwise, I'd use Dudley. Superb track (people I know will not go to Rye House for that reason alone) superb stadium, big crowd, reachable by everyone.

Complete rubbish. Rye House made the commitment to run the NLRC in the full knowledge that there could be a fixture pile up and, at least according to their website, they haven't had a rain off since that made that commitment. If there was a danger that they could not fit the meeting in (and, even without the benefit of hindsight, there clearly was) why agree to hold it ? I fail to appreciate how the blame for the cancellation of this meeting can be laid at the door of the NL. It maybe that the BSPA directed it, but I have no doubt that that is when the problem was raised by Rye House so its their fault and theirs alone.

Stick to the commitment that they made in the first place instead of cancelling it at short notice (and thus limiting any chance of a staging elsewhere), particularly bearing in mind that they were fully aware of a possible fixture pile up at the time that that commitment was made. As Derek says, why not hold their other meetings during the week ? The NL is no more a poorly run league nor do its rules change more often (and for subjective reasons)than either of the other two. Its just that it doesn't seem to be given the credence that it undoubtedly deserves and episodes like this merely reinforce that view. Dead right and, sadly, absolutely typical.

Scunthorpe is my favourite track and in polls on this forum it is usually a runaway winner for that accolade. Superb location if you come prepared Its not so much that I don't like the track as the quality of racing that you see there. Yesterday, I can only recall one decent race with the rest almost always being decided after the second corner andd that's somewhat been my experience over 12 or 13 visits to Hi Edge. The sadness is it is a little over an hour from my home and I'd visit a lot more often if the the racing were better. As I have said, I have profound respect for Jayne & Richard Moss. I don't think anyone fools themselves that the place is run on anything but a shoestring with huge amount of effort going in and that deserves a lot of credit. In addition, I rarely disagree with Jayne's honest and objective comments on here. Floating supporters like myself (at the moment, anyway) need an incentive to go to a track and, aside from the fact that Barrie Evans might be riding, at least as far as I am concerned there isn't much to go to Buxton.

I have said elsewhere on this forum that I have the greatest respect for Jayne & Richard Moss and what they achieve at Buxton but just don't like the track there and yesterdays meeting was a classic example. Although the meeting was exciting thanks to the closeness of the scores and the way that the Heathens came back from the dead, virtually every race was decided by the second bend. Good to see Barrie back among the points (and a smile on his face and being cheeky to boot ). The absence of Cook and Morris made that easier (although on his last visit there he beat both of them) but the way things are going he was having trouble beating anyone as witnessed by recent displays. Just goes to show that on reasonable equipment he is a force to reckoned with. What everyone might not be aware of was that in warming up his first choice bike he noticed filings in the oil, which apparently is a sign of a big end blow up. He switched to his other machine, not a good start for a rider already low on confidence. Nice couple of touches during the meeting: Barrie asking Jack Lee if he was replacing Adam Allott as Jason Garrity was wearing the wrong helmet colour, Garrity's genuine enquiry after Ashley Morris had fallen, and Gary Patchett's recognition of his teams battling display.

I certainly don't want to knock your efforts but in my view its an absolute myth that Commonwealth riders prevent British youngsters getting into NL sides. For a start, there are a handful - about 8 - and they are of a much higher standard than those who would be looking for a team place as first season novices, so the team positions they are taking is completely different. I went to an STR meeting at Scunny last year and the best rider on view was Rob Hollingworth and, with respect to him, he is in his 50's. I am wholly unaware of a significant number of young British riders who are of the necessary standard to compete at an NL level, and that's a view shared by Jayne Moss (on here) and at least 3 other NL team managers or ex team managers that I have spoken to. I try to do my bit to support the U15 championship - I sponsor Adam Kirby and saw the meetings at Northside, Buxton & Plymouth - and have absolutely no wish to have British riders excluded in favour of any foreigners. I am not convinced, however, that a total ban is in the interests of the NL and that means it is not in the interests of the development of our riders of the future.

Well said Robin & Phil. The Australasian riders in the NL are a drawcard for supporters and undoubtedly have added a little colour with very little effect on the British youngsters looking for places in the league. I'd be the first to agree that there should be controls on those borne outside the UK such as having higher starting averages and the number in each team, but a total ban would be counter productive. Good point, Dean. The very unwelcome (if necessary) sight of three guest riders turning out for Newport the other day clearly confirms that there isn't exactly a huge number of riders out there who can (or wish)to compete in this league. Its a point that those who wish to slash the points limit utterly brush aside but which is fully acknowledged by most clubs. With regard to wages, that is entirely up to the clubs concerned and I do not think it is for central authority to dictate to them how much they pay in this league any more than it might be in the EL or PL. Teams in those leagues use their financial muscle generated by whatever form of income to pay riders what they want and I don't see why NL clubs cannot do the same. If a club goes bankrupt because it has agreed to pay its riders too much, the blame for closure cannot be laid at the feet of the riders for demanding a certain pay level but those at the clubs who said that they would pay it. Without being too critical, 'all these' Aussies is an absolute myth as there are still less than 1 per team riding in the NL.

Very difficult to argue with any of the suggestions here, and it is indeed encouraging to see so many British youngsters making progress. If I had to pick one it would be Dudley's Tom Perry. I believe he is a complete speedway rookie this year yet the way he attacked the track at the Isle Of Wight was very impressive indeed.

The forecast has won the battle for me, Derek Its a long way to go for a possible rain off and really only worthwhile if I could see both meetings. I am not a big fan of Rye House but with young Mr Evans riding both Saturday & Sunday and Bob C attending (along with perhaps one or two acquaintances from Mildenhall & Plymouth)I decided to go. Rain on both Saturday and Sunday now means I will stay home instead.

What I can say is that I got a text from him last night saying he felt a lot better, so fingers crossed. I'll probably be down to watch him next Tuesday in the Golden Hammer.

Good to see young Mr Evans back among the points I don't think anyone (least of all Barrie himself) will view Weymouth as anything other than weak opposition but the way his machinery was working last week he'd have had trouble racing a push bike. I was with him in the pits and know just how gutted he was with his display and letting the Dudley fans down, so his score here will have done him a power of good.

Very fine post, Tina

They frightened the life out of me too, Rob, but I think Bob C fancies one (or more) of them

Not a bad stab at all I'd keep the play off for the attendances it brings in, otherwise fine. Not sure about 8 rider teams but 40 points is Ok; maybe a little lower say 38.5. Short term exceptions for riders over 25 who are new to the sport, have been out for a while or have been seriously injured. Aussies/NZ on 7.00. Lowest average 2.00 for 15 or 16 year olds; One 2 or 3pt man per team (don't think we could find 20 odd new riders). I am not sure how to get costs down but recent experience has shown me that they are high. Barrie Evans told me two new carburettors would cost him in the region of £1,000 - I am sure that is more than a car - while I bought a gallon of methanol for Ollie Rayson yesterday - £7. Could petrol engines be an alternative ?

This is a very fine post Jayne and one that I think most people outside north east Lincolnshire will agree with (and probably a few there will, too). I have to say I'd sooner see 1 Australian rather than two per team but a total ban would lose the entertainment and crowd pulling appeal that these lads give. There is no doubt that the suggestion that the NL has become a bastion for Australians is nothing but an utter myth. It should never be forgotten that for yourself and others the running of your side is your bread and butter - you are not putting out an NL side to produce riders for a senior team and hence might be prepared to stomach the losses in attendance that could easily be the result of devaluing the product too much. That is something which must be part of the equation when the points limit is considered. Another fine post and I can assure you that the points you make regarding the lack of available riders are not lost on other NL team managers. What I am most encouraged by here is the consistency of your views and your willingness to try and find an acceptable solution with two of those gentlemen I have referred to in my earlier post. There is unquestionably hope for the continued existence and indeed prosperity of the NL when such leading figures are prepared to put at least some of their self interest aside for the benefit of the common good.

Outrageous comment He's a very good tipper, you just have to remember that the riders he has tipped will finish at the back. I am not sure how my mates at Mildenhall will view this (probably with disbelief) but I was in the pits with the King's Lynn riders, trying (largely unsuccessfully)to help, cheering for them and the King's Lynn team manager got me into the stadium (thanks again, Dale). Shame and disgrace beckon, I think. The sadness of the Young Stars set up is that so few people watch them ij home meetings. These lads put in 100% effort on limited resources and deserve better than that. I was assured that the Bucc's tracks have dirt on yet by heat 12 there was a huge blue groove on the first corner. Heaven knows what the Pirates tracks are like.