Halifaxtiger

Any team news please, Jayne ? My car is out of action but I am coming over by train and getting a lift with young Mr Evans.

Very disappointed indeed but not surprised. The cards were on the table once Ray said that he could not continue and he and Dave Coventry could not agree a takeover price. There is some chance of restart in 2011 although any prospective promoter will be put off by the gate figues published in this weeks speedway star, a drop of 30-40% on last season. Recession aside, I can't think why so many people have stopped coming when the team and the track are much improved on what they were in 2009. I'll miss watching the Tigers of course but I will miss all the friends I have made down there so much more, because while I can nip to Scunthorpe, Redcar, Buxton or Newcastle for a meeting I will not have the pleasure of their company on Sunday afternoons for the foreseeable future.

I think you might be right but that's not how I read it or how anyone else would read it. That's the bit I don't get. It seems to me that Ray can accept a lower offer and get some money or get nothing and face the debts. If the rent is £1,300 if you add on bar & food takings I think Dave Coventry will lose around £600-£700 per meeting. If he was a little less intransigent on the rent side (as far as I am aware Ray is paying a fair bit more than you did)things could have moved on. It does seem to me that with a little more flexibility this could have been resolved. I think Jean was the motivating force behind the speedway and without her Ray does not have the will or the motivation to go on. Frankly, I would be surprised if anyone cannot understand that. However, at a time at which we should be showing understanding and sympathy for him if the riders haven't been paid that leaves a very nasty taste in the mouth, because it seems like he is prepared to pocket the gate takings and then not adhere to the contracts that he signed at the start of the season. Simon Barton, whatever his financial difficulties, never did that and I can appreciate why some might feel bitter and angry.

Coventry retorted: "This seems to be the attitude of a lot of people in speedway. The stadium has overheads and the rent includes track preparation, which is a very expensive business." Misleading to say the least It would be true to say that costs for any of the shale (actually, at Mildenhall, its brick dust mixed with clay)are met by Dave Coventry and that he repairs the track after stock car meetings, removing the concrete blocks that are round the inside of the circuit. He also is responsible for taking the safety fence down. However, the fence is put up by a team of volunteers on behalf of Mildenhall Speedway (which takes several hours)who also do other tasks like checking lights, painting the white line, starting gate etc. All of the track and security staff are volunteers who act on behalf of the speedway promotion. Joe Evans prepares the track (usually starting around 10.00am) and continues looking after it during the meeting. He's paid by Ray Mascall. Its very, very far from the case that the speedway riders & officials turn up and everything has been made ready by the stadium owners. If its very expensive for track preparation, then the fact that the speedway team do it all themselves (when that was not originally the case)should qualify for a reduction in the original terms agreed, surely ?

Brilliant That's the bit I don't get, Neil, and it makes you wonder what people want . While I recognise there is a recession on it is no worse than last year when, at the start of the season, we had a poor track surface and a weak team but higher gates. Ray & John have built a more than competitive side and, with Joe Evans doing the track, the standard of racing has improved significantly. Fingers crossed for a favourable solution.

Definitely I must admit things didn't always look good with a lot of wind and rain about but by the time the meeting started the sun had decided to put in an appearance although it remained cold. I was very impressed with the set up and the people who run Northside deserve a great deal of credit. I understand they are a little short on funds which is a huge shame, and I hope that their little circuit gets the recognition it deserves. Best performance from young Mr Kirby yet and would have been even better had he not clouted the home straight fence less than 6 feet from the finish line. Many congratulations Adam, dad Paul, mum Julie (both highly nervous and highly excitable at the same time ), sister Bethany and girlfriend Amy. It has always been a privilege and pleasure to be part of the set up and I hope and believe that could be the first of many.

Its public knowledge that Ray Mascall has decided to sell the Fen Tigers following the death of his wife, Jean. From the Mildenhall website, there appears to have been a hang up in the ongoing purchase but it seems that it is still on. My own personal feeling is that speedway will continue at Mildenhall, with Dave Coventry (the stadium owner)taking over and possibly individuals close to the club (John Bailey, Clerk of the course, would be an example) running it on Sundays for him. The way I see it, its in Mr Coventry's interests to keep the speedway open because it will make money for him from gate receipts, bar takings (lets not forget that Mr Barton is a regular ) and the fish and chip shop. He might end up with less than the amount of rent he is currently getting, but providing it is making enough to ensure that any hassle or workload it creates is worth it, I'll be surprised (and obviously very disappointed indeed) if it closes.

Hi Vic I should be up for this one as young Adam (see below) is riding.

I can't. But it has been stated on the pages of this forum (sadly pages that no longer exist) that that was the case by both Rob Godfrey & Malcolm Vasey. As Scribbler has said, the CL pay rate a few years ago was £5 a point, and only Buxton & Sittingbourne kept to it. If what she has said is true (and I think it is) she accepts that Scunny riders were paid above NL pay rates in 2006 & 2007 at least. Very difficult to disagree with that, Roger, and I think you have pretty much hit the nail on the head when you say its not so much the fact that they compete but the ways in which promotions (the Mildenhall one included) try to include a high scoring Aussie youngster on a low average. You can't cover for every eventuality, but putting anyone born outside of the UK on a 7 or 8 starting average might just do the trick.

'At present the SCB have ruled that his inclusion in the Kart Cobras team at Scunthorpe was as legal as it could be given the information available at the time' Truly unbelievable. If Scunthorpe protested about Nelson's inclusion (which they did) then it should have been up to Rye House to prove his eligibility to ride to the referee. If they could not do that, then he should not have been allowed to take part. What adds insult to injury is that it has been proved that Rye House were in the wrong yet they keep his points and those from the match, a situation that would not exist in any other sport where an ineligible competitor had taken part. The nub of this problemn is that those who make decisions on matters of dispute are themselves compromised by the fact that sooner or later they themselves will be involved in a similar sort of dispute. Until such time as we have an adjudicator (the exemplary Mr Steele, perhaps) who is not a member of a speedway promotion and is entirely independent such occurrences will continue to happen, to the disillusionment, disbelief and disappointment of all those who pay to watch the sport every week.

I have no idea precisely how much the riders were getting paid but, as Scribbler has said, they were paid more than the pay rate agreed for the third tier of British Speedway at the time. The fact that others were doing it (or even paying more) isn't the point. The point is that Rob Godfrey is no totally against paying more than the £10 a point that is the new agreed amount and has condemned rival promotions for doing so. So what was OK for him to do when he was a stand alone promoter he is now totally against. My view on that it is unacceptable self interest but I am open to your suggestions as to this remarkable change of heart. He also condemns the use of Australians but at the time he had no idea whether Tai Woffinden was going to be Australian or English; funny he didn't say then I am only for English riders and totally against those who have patriality, isn't it ? Its an absolute myth that the NL is dominated by Australians. In the figures I quoted earlier there were just 5 out of 77 competitors. If the price of ensuring clubs stay viable is that they are allowed to ride I am all for that, otherwise there won't be clubs for our youngsters to ride at. My whole point on this is pulling together. Its about co-operation, compromise and fairness, getting the best deal so that all might compete and provide a major stepping stone for the development of our young riders. Its not about one promotion stridently, selfishly and arrogantly insisting that they have their way without consideration for others and entirely going against what they did when they were a stand alone team. Jayne Moss is in exactly the same boat, yet I view her comments with sympathy, understanding and a genuine desire to ensure that Buxton run next season. Its never what you say, its how and where. I have nothing but admiration for Rob Godfrey and the Scunthorpe set up, but that is a lesson he must learn (and to be fair, he's very far from being the only one).

Complete rubbish. Less than one per team at the moment. It would be a huge shame if Buxton were to fold, Jayne, and I'd be surprised if anyone had a differing view. No rider loaned to an NL club should be subject to a loan fee. After all, it is of considerable benefit for the assets of EL & PL clubs to be able gain significant riding experience at a level proportionate to a riders ability. While I'd accept that riders demands have increased, paying over the odds isn't new - Wimbledon certainly did it and they closed in 2005. I'd take issue with your comment regarding the standard of the league being too high for development, Jayne. Looking through the NL teams stated in Speedy Star dated 03/07/10, I'd say around 60% of those riders were at the development stage of their careers and/or had reasonable prospects of going into a higher league. Not quite enough for my liking, but certainly sufficient to disprove any allegation that the league is not used at least in part for that purpose. Very good points, Neil I am certain that many of the young riders in NL sides are very thankful for the presence of the likes of Atkin, Stephens, Burrows etc. The point about certain people from Scunthorpe's hypocrisy isn't lost on me. When they were putting out super strength teams (and paying over the odds to do it) I didn't hear them complaining then and can imagine the reaction if someone had. Agreed In order to achieve the compromise (and to me, that is the only way forward)that you put in your earlier post, I'd say it has to be both. The league would not be a realistic prospect if either the stand alones or the double ups decided to go it alone, so they must have regard of each others needs & requirements. Stand alones need to be financially viable, double ups need young riders to develop into assets with one eye on costs themselves.There has to be a set of regulations that allows the development of young riders but maintains a standard that means that people are going to pay to come and watch. On a separate thread, Vince put together a very good starting point for the building of teams involving the restriction of certain categories of rider and personally I think it is more about those restrictions than points limits. To my mind, the points limit should be set in around October time each year, taking into account the best estimates of riders that would be available in the forthcoming season. Talk of very low points limits would not only be financially disastrous, it would also be unachievable. If it is accepted that each team can have one senior rider and a 34pt limit were imposed, Mildenhall could have Evans, Rayson & Jacobs and 4 3pt men next season. Aside from the fact of whether spectators would pay £10 to watch such riders, that would mean that the league (based upon existing numbers)would have to find 44 3pt riders not just next season, but for each season following. Not only that, but a 3pt man from the first season would then run the risk of being excluded for the second season if he upped that average. That's not just unworkable, its plain ridiculous.

Not a bad meeting at all, with some good racing from both sides. Much credit must go to Joe Evans for producing a track that not only allowed the riders to have a go but also did not have huge quantities of dust about on a very hot (88dgs) day indeed. I think it was because of the help he had before the meeting. Best performance I have seen from young Mr Rayson, only a foot away from a paid 15pt maximum. Even if has substantially sharpened up his gating, his last race proved that he still hasn't lost the ability to go past opponents that we all love. Could be a very big second half of the season for Oliver and, for that matter, for JJ too. Quick word of praise to for the impressive Kyle Howarth - not many away riders pass two homesters anywhere, particularly if they take one on the last bend.

I think this could be an exceptionally good year for the third tier of British Speedway (although we will rely on our old adversary, the weather). For a start, it will be highly competitive as there no obvious stand out teams that will become champions (I suspect that postings on this thread will name almost all of the leagues members as getting in the play offs), something that has only rarely been the case over the past few years. Secondly, the strengthening of one or two teams and indeed the weakening of one or two others may well result in increased crowd numbers. Finally, although sadly there are only a few newcomers this season, there are also a considerable number of talented young riders who may well make the grade and look forward to a PL place for 2011 (that's if the PL takes the promotion of British youngsters seriously). Competition, viability and the production of youngsters. Does it get any better than that for the NL ?

I moved away from my team (Wimbledon) when I changed jobs and went to Yorkshire. I started off at Hyde Road, Belle Vue and enjoyed it very much there but Martin's right: it isn't the same as watching your own team. I also agree with him that I'd miss the sport too much to abandon it entirely if the Fen Tigers closed and I'd take Redcar, Scunthorpe & Newcastle in turn.

For once, I can see why the applications were turned down. It is very close to a large housing estate and car parking is non-existent. Pity, though, because I agree it would be ideal for NL racing. I can just see someone coming up from Weymouth and seeing a track that must be double the size of theirs (if not more) The Gunners pub is still there, though. When I went there in 1985, it was the best speedway themed pub I have ever seen - sadly all gone now.

I went there today, Rob, coming home from a short break in North Wales. I don't think there is any football played there (if there is the pitch is very rough indeed) but the dog track is in place and there was some practice going on. Its very run down and looks ripe for development, if truth were told. I doubt you'd get planning permission for speedway as its on the edge of a big housing estate. The M53 motorway is behind the old back straight stand.

Very fair comments, TC. This will be the second season that I have helped out Adam Kirby and the first where Oliver Rayson is concerned (financially, apart from that I just get in the way) and when you talk to their Dad's about it you do get some idea of just how much effort it takes to keep them both in racing gear. I read this article recently: 'One major item as far as riders are concerned will be to find a way to peg the rising expenses. This is not a new problem. It has existed ever since speedway began. Gradually costs have gone up and up. For a while it was possible for pay to keep level with them but now it isn't. Keeping expenses down is going to be a riders problem. Unfortunately, there seems to be only one way to do it - by banning items which may make some contribution to the progress oif speedway racing, but which can be done without' Very similar to your thoughts. The thing is those comments were made by Eric Linden in Speedway Star & News in December 1962.

I have a lot of time for your posts , Vince, and believe I have said so in the past. Some of this I agree with but not all. The greatest strength of our current league system is that it allows teams to pitch themselves according to their income (be that through gates, sponsorship or whatever). Forcing clubs down is bad, but forcing them up risks their very future. If an average PL rider is paid £45 per point and an average NL one £15, coming in the middle the likes of Mildenhall, Isle Of Wight and Weymouth (I miss Buxton out because they struggle to meet £10 per point and Plymouth because I think they could afford higher rates) would be forced to pay their riders £15 per point more than they are now. In a single match, using a draw and 7 bonus points that's around £800 per match or £20k per season more and at a stroke doubles rider costs. I can see those clubs being forced to the brink of bankruptcy, and the same might apply to those forced up from the PL. The same goes for Bee's point; how many fans from Coventry would watch their PL side ? Very few. Its not financially credible. Although the present league structure is not ideal, its better than any alternative I have seen. The setting of averages to the league winners will make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Again, the present system is the best alternative: it allows teams to be equal (at least in theory, and its rare one doesn't pop out of the pack, look at Newcastle) while also permitting them to use their financial muscle which has been created by on and off track success. No-one has yet explained to me the essential difference between the old tactical substitute rule and the much maligned tactical ride. In terms of value and swinging a match, they are exactly the same. Moreover, they bring extra excitement into a match; there is that much more emphasis on a race involving a tactical ride, both from those who are using it and those who are having it used against them. On occasion, its like having a last heat decider in the middle of a meeting and I cannot see why that is such a bad thing. Can you see King's Lynn subsidising Mildenhall ? No, neither can I. The point on engines is, I think, unworkable. Nice try, though Essentially I'd say people bond with the team rather than an individual rider. While I would be loath to lose any rider from last seasons Mildenhall team, if the new ones are just as good (or better) I'll support them just as much. Having criticised........... I just think that loan fees should be abolished or substantially rediuced. Again, the rich get richer and the poor poorer. Clubs can retain ownership; they just can't charge for the privilege. Agree completely on foreign riders, one per team (of any nationality) in the NL and average reductions for Brits. To me, the way forward is not about a major restructure of leagues or rules, encouraging top riders or young juniors - its far simpler than that. Its about those who run our sport doing everything possible to ensure that the money we pay over every week is well spent and that the entertainment we get is just about as good as it gets and I'd say that's about one thing - track preparation. Prepare the best and fairest surface you can to ensure that both teams can race on it and people will pay and come back. Read the thread on best away track and you'll find that Scunthorpe is by far and away the best in Britain, with people coming from all over just to watch a meeting. That's because they prepare a surface that has little advantage and is made for the spectator, no-one else. Wouldn't it be brilliant if we were all absolutely convinced that promoters do everything they can to ensure that that is the case ? I don't know about everyone else, but I think at the moment that it is anything but.

I think we all expect they are going to be anything but that, Andy, but in my (very limited) experience they often wonder what all the fuss is about. I have never met a really famous speedway rider but I did meet (at my wife's grandfathers funeral) Ray Wilson, who played left back in the 1966 World Cup winning team. He was just the same. I had the pleasure of sharing the referee's box with Tony Steele this season and he was like it, too. He's recognised as the best in the world at what he does (first time I have ever met anyone who has that honour) but he explained he was simply doing a job to the best of his ability. Needless to say, I'm now a big fan.

About 6 feet away, I think For anyone that would be a pretty good move. For a lad of just 10 years old, it was quite incredible

I turn up for a quiet afternoon watching young Mr Kirby and having a couple of beers and you get me dragged off to join the track staff Some very impressive riding from some very young lads indeed. Good to see you as enthusiastic as ever mate, and see you on the Island in 3 weeks.

Not much I'll bet after the charming Mr Watters raided it.............. See you soon.

Looks OK to me. Drinks all round today Mr Rogers, isn't it ?

I am coming to this one as young Mr Kirby is riding. Mrs HalifaxTiger is coming too although that's just to go shopping in the town